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#15036373
Atlantis wrote:The monarchy has become an empty shell, which is an ideal vessel for a tin-pot dictator to turn your country into a banana republic.

This non-elected PM has usurped democracy by using royal powers for his own personal use. It can't get worse than that.

It is EU who is trying to undermine Britain's democracy. Why doesn't Brussels respect will of British people and referendum result?

EU should stop being so much evilish. You lost. Give it a rest.
#15036375
PS: @Tainari88

You also referred to the various classes in today's society; saying that govts should 'respect' the working to upper middle class, as they are the majority.

Isn't this in contradiction with your contention that we should have a classless society?

Unless you're calling for a revolution after mass reforms or something...

Oh and the 'underclass' as you rather nicely put it are people too, why shouldn't they be represented no matter how large or small they are in number; but accurate to their proportion in the population?

Same for the upper upper class. They should be represented proportionately to their number; but not based on their money/power etc.

I don't like viewing things through the prism of class. IMHO everyone is an individual and I'm not classist, certainly not jealous or envious of those richer than me, nor do I look down on those worse off than me. Humans are supposed to be equal.
#15036382
Istanbuller wrote:Britain's democracy.

The only way to get a 'good election' is to keep 'no election' on the table.

© Boris Johnson


:)
#15036499
:lol: I have to say Boris Johnson's comments about Jo Cox's memory did make me laugh. Her death was certainly ironic, for someone who had done so much to back hate filled Sunni Muslim terrorist murderers in Syria to be murdered herself.
#15036502
Rich wrote::lol: I have to say Boris Johnson's comments about Jo Cox's memory did make me laugh. Her death was certainly ironic, for someone who had done so much to back hate filled Sunni Muslim terrorist murderers in Syria to be murdered herself.


She wasn't killed by a Muslim, though. She was killed by a very British racist who was inspired by the xenophobia propagated by Brexitters like your current PM.

Boris is trying hard to emulate the Mafia methods of his mentor in the US. He is telling his political opponents that they ought to change their political views if they don't want to get death threats, or if they don't want to get killed like Jo Cox.

He is deliberately stirring up hatred to create an atmosphere conductive to civil war.

The British elite is deliberately driving the country into a crisis - a bit deeper every day. And we haven't seen the worst yet.
#15036505
Istanbuller wrote:It is EU who is trying to undermine Britain's democracy. Why doesn't Brussels respect will of British people and referendum result?

EU should stop being so much evilish. You lost. Give it a rest.


:lol: a bit sore, are we now? A feeling of rejection is always hard to deal with.

Honestly, we would love to have you in the EU if the Caliph of Ankara wasn't such an idiot.
#15036509
@Atlantis re your post to Rich:

^ Well, there are tribalists on all sides aren't there.

Don't forget that the Remain side cheated in the ref as well, and was supported by the dark lobby as well.

I might like the EU but I'll never cover over the remain side, LDs or Lab's failures. Or the EU's failures.

Like Brexiteers, some people act as if the EU can do no wrong.

Whilst I respectfully disagree with @Potemkin I can see some of the merits to his arguments.

How do you address his contention that the EU is just a neoliberal project designed to make capitalism function; even as bad as it is?

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

It's nice to see everyone's views get a robust challenge and tyre-kicking to see how well they hold up when subjected to fair scrutiny.
#15036518
Maybe grotesque is the expression describing BoJo the best recently. It's amazing how many bootlickers eager to assist him he has in the Tory benches, with whom he's in absolute agreement, of course.
#15036522
Beren wrote:Maybe grotesque is the expression describing BoJo the best recently. It's amazing how many bootlickers eager to assist him he has in the Tory benches, with whom he's in absolute agreement, of course.

The Tory backbenches have always held a parade of grotesques, Beren. It's just that, until now, the grandees of the Tory Party have managed to keep them out of the limelight, for the most part, to avoid embarrassment. Their current antics do not amaze me at all.
#15036541
SolarCross wrote:^ Tragic lack of self awareness projecting his monstrous odiousness upon others. Pofotardism at its best.

Image
#15036542
Potemkin wrote:The Tory backbenches have always held a parade of grotesques, Beren. It's just that, until now, the grandees of the Tory Party have managed to keep them out of the limelight, for the most part, to avoid embarrassment. Their current antics do not amaze me at all.


Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

In fact, they were worse in the past.

No one gave a toss when chope and bone fought against anti FGM bills, otmr blocked basically fundamental passages of legislation.

Thatcher was a big fan of Chope. Greed + Ruthlessness + Might = Makes right.
#15036562
So I'm a strong Reamainer but the question arises is worth putting in an agent of Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran and an ex agent of Castro, Chavez, the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein into number 10, making him head of defence and intelligence agencies in order to stop Brexit.

I think you can guess my answer.
#15036744
@Presvias I understand what you are talking about. But, you have to realize that all human societies are interconnected. Now in this information age more than ever before in human history. It means that thinking that small pockets of different sort of systems can co exist without a problem in conflicting interests is being naive. It is.

There are societies for example in Guatemala that were indigenous societies living the way they themselves organized themselves and they wanted to opt out of capitalist production. They were murdered for it en masse. So what does one do as a minority that is being oppressed? Can't hide your head in the sand thinking, "Capitalism exists but it doesn't affect me." It does. It affects everyone. So everyone has the obligation to not hide their head in the sand and deal with the culprit of intolerance and deal with the motivation for their need to control all the resources in many nations, to control and dictate economic and political policy to the rest.

Thinking that you can live independently and escape the reach of capitalism without consequences is very very naive. Even isolationist nations are stuck with the system running in there and dictating and influencing. Got to cope. As a class in many nations.

Capitalism is internationalist. The response to control it has to be internationalist as well or it won't work. Pockets of nations doing their own thing are just insular micro economies and very vulnerable to being stamped out or pressured out of existence.

The Native Americans are a fine example of being wiped out for making way for a rapacious sort of capitalist society. Got to eliminate communal lands and privatize it and exploit it. Have to create a dependency on credit and so on. The only way is to pressure the competing systems out of existence. They did it before in the 18th and 19th and 20th century Presvias, and they will do it again.

No, the solution is to organize massively and force change on the existing predominant system. You can also create your own society with its own rules, but humanity is not that way in general. You are basically all interdependent on many things. Got to negotiate human power relationships. It is necessary.
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