French police guard teacher who condemned rise of radical Islam - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15156612
The Times wrote:French police guard teacher who condemned rise of radical Islam

Saturday February 13 2021, 12.01am, The Times

A French teacher has been given police protection after he denounced what he says is the spread of radical Islam in the west Paris suburb where he works.

Didier Lemaire, who teaches at Lycée de la Plaine de Neauphle, a sixth-form college in Trappes, was given protection this week after prosecutors began an inquiry into his claim that he had received death threats for comparing Islamists to Nazis.

Lemaire, who is accused by Ali Rabeh, the mayor of Trappes, of spreading disinformation, is the latest symbol of a fraught debate over the relationship between the secular French state and the country’s Muslim minority.

His supporters hail him as the defender of liberty, equality and fraternity when those values are being threatened by radicals wanting to impose their religion on society. Detractors depict him as an incendiary figure creating unmanageable tensions.

Lemaire, who teaches philosophy, calls himself a left-winger keen to protect the legacy of the republicans who wrenched control of the state from the Catholic church more than 100 years ago. In 2018 he co-signed a letter to President Macron warning that France was heading for a “form of civil war”.

In November, in a letter to the news magazine L’Obs after Samuel Paty, a history and geography teacher, was beheaded by an Islamist, he wrote: “Schools and freedom are under attack,” adding that Paty’s murderer was the “arm of a project implemented by thousands of ideologues who, like the Nazis before them, nourish a feeling of victimisation to incite hatred.”

Lemaire was interviewed by a Dutch TV journalist who asked people in Trappes about the spread of radical Islam. “A parent of a former pupil told the Dutch journalist that if I continued to speak about Islam . . . I would be the next Samuel Paty,” Lemaire said.

Prosecutors started an inquiry into claims that this amounted to a “threat against a person charged with a public service mission”, prompting Lemaire to tell news outlets his life was in danger.

In later interviews he claimed that radical Islamists drove Jews out of Trappes two decades ago and are now forcing “atheists and moderate Muslims” to leave the town as well.

He said their influence had led to the closure of unisex hairdressers in the town and dissuaded women of north African origin from entering its cafés: “They cannot go in without feeling intimidated, threatened,” he said.

“My pupils, generally speaking, no longer feel French. They have other customs, an ideology that separates them from liberty and equality. Girls are under the influence of boys. It is a world that is very different to ours.”

Rabeh said there was no evidence to support Lemaire’s claims that his life was under threat or that the town was under Islamist control. The mayor added that he also felt in danger amid the escalating tension. “I have faced an odious campaign with death threats,” he said.

Lemaire, who says it is no longer safe for him to teach at Lycée de la Plaine de Neauphle, told French media he had been given police protection a week ago. This was not entirely accurate as officers had merely been asked to patrol outside the school.

However, with the row grabbing national headlines, Gérald Darmanin, the interior minister, assigned an elite close protection team to Lemaire on Thursday in an indication that the authorities are worried that he could indeed become a terrorist target.


Muslim leaders have been threatening Europeans who welcome distressed Muslim migrants into their countries while supporting China for sterilising and imprisoning indigenous Muslims just for being Muslims.

How does one square this circle? The same people who will call for the head of this teacher for expressing himself will also defend Chinese "teachers" detaining Muslim people without trial in special internment camps. :eh:
#15156728
noemon wrote:How does one square this circle? The same people who will call for the head of this teacher for expressing himself will also defend Chinese "teachers" detaining Muslim people without trial in special internment camps. :eh:


eh, the difference is that France is acting democracy, but in same time dont provide the basic human rights on freedom of expression, while simultaneously force atheistic idealism through secularism!

    chinese at least are sincere, they are atheists mids authoritarian communist circumstances, and noone bothers to object, while in europe equality on ethnic and religious basis is norm except in France and Greece ...

tell me how Muslims live along Christians normally in FYRMacedonia, why that not to be case in France, in FYRMacedonia they are even 30% and there is no risk of religious hate or fanatism, but if they are restricted they will normally radicalize, and instead France to revive its republic with more modern egalitarian manner, it just use fearmongering how equality is at risk, Yeah because there egalite is understood as greater equality for atheists?
#15156735
noemon wrote:Muslim leaders have been threatening Europeans who welcome distressed Muslim migrants into their countries while supporting China for sterilising and imprisoning indigenous Muslims just for being Muslims.

How does one square this circle? The same people who will call for the head of this teacher for expressing himself will also defend Chinese "teachers" detaining Muslim people without trial in special internment camps. :eh:


Not sure I understand this. Do you have a link where Muslims are supporting the genocide of other Muslims in China?

Otherwise, I support France having the courage to defend people who exercise free speech from intimidation, harassment, and violent threats. Women should also be protected from men who do these things to them in cafes, restaurants etc.

If you choose to move to a democracy you need to respect it's most fundamental rights and laws. I think Charlie Hebdo should be encouraged to print as many offensive cartoons as they want so that the Islamist fascists will all come out of the woodwork and be arrested or shot. You don't cower to bullies.
#15156794
Unthinking Majority wrote:Not sure I understand this. Do you have a link where Muslims are supporting the genocide of other Muslims in China?


https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/which-countries-are-for-or-against-chinas-xinjiang-policies/

Signing the second letter, in defense of China’s policies, were: Algeria, Angola, Bahrain, Belarus, Bolivia, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Comoros, Congo, Cuba, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Egypt, Eritrea, Gabon, Kuwait, Laos, Myanmar, Nigeria, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Venezuela, and Zimbabwe.


While Erdogan's Turkey who criticises the French and Europeans on Muslim issues repeatedly, has now signed a new extradition treaty with China tailored particularly for Uyghurs.

Odiseizam wrote:tell me how Muslims live along Christians normally in FYRMacedonia


Your off-topic aside from non-sense it's untrue.

https://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38b7a.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_insu ... _Macedonia
#15156803
@noemon if You ask me Macedonia is role model for every next cohabitation in europe on monothestic basis! the rest are more suitable for newage neopaganism!

    now, let me see, You are not aware why and how albanians were treated in ex-Yugoslavia? hm the transitional '90s were legacy of that time in case of minority rights, till the fall of the soc.federation segregation on level like now in France, later maybe little better but not like now, so this should be reminder to France in which direction goes ...

must say later Albanians as 20% population were misused as Uyghurs now in China normally by whom and for what than usA interests, luckily Macedonians didnt responded in full force in 2001 so the war imported by nato from Kosovo ended in some kind of lasting peace, tho any economic crisis could easily tear apart the current cohabitation because the ultra corruption and criminal clans in balkans are institutionalized so will seek to grab as much as possible by any means!

    at least after 2001 Albanians are now on level of constitutional nation tho with all the rest minorities now designated as nations, so Macedonia now is one of the rarest examples in the world in this respect, if not unique in accordance with its republican order i.e. its not federation ... stil its not easy, recently Macedonia accepted to change its name in unconstitutional way (now in North Macedonia, so it would please the euroatlantic deepstate elites who again were pushing the albanian question so it would bend Macedonia to please Greece so she would revoke the nato accession veto, and yes if that wasnt case the criminal balkan cabal of us-eu-nato geostrategists (eager to stuck every balkan state in their basket) were ready to go with hardpower blackmail and starting new proxy war in Macedonia , so Albanians are just western victim here, tho think this time ex-syrian rebels would have fill the trenches, scared from such possibility and potential devastation of the state the last soc.dems. did the most unbelievable stunt and changed unilaterally the name i.e. without referendum which was mandatory by constitution for any political or military alliance, even more, logically for reshaping whole constitution (altho this is not explicit law) also it needed broad acclamation from all the citizens, yet they went on their own what is more than wrong, what eventually will fire back sooner or later at least on patriotic level , probably they hope nato will guard the boarders even from any internal insurrections!

and Yes there are risk when something is done without broad debate along proper public risk assessment and risk management, but indeed the macedonian multiculti experiment should be example for all, not because here tolerance is norm but because there is no real hatrate, why, simply when the citizen rights are leveled in right amount then the economic collaboration is imminent and like that there are no fears nor danger, tho as everywhere nationalistic folklore nowadays is hype, but defacto even after the last war in 2001 we are more than ok, understanding that we dont have spare country so we can ruin our cohabitation, altho without any serious program for reconciliation through colective forgiveness what should go at least in the academic circles, we cant be sure that the war wounds will heal by itself, even more knowing that this process now is left to be buffered by fakebook nationalistic trenching!

SO YES WHEN THE RIGHTS ARE PROPERLY DESIGNATED AND PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED THERE WILL BE NO TENSION OR RADICALIZATION!!! France should stop acting victim, the truth is that "she" is oppressor on behalf of atheism, the fight with vatican was political and not religious in the french revolution, so French should finally start to recognize that their country is human-right weirdo mids europe along with Greece ... eventually I will be not surprised that the muslim radicalization is due to counterintelligence skims so there would not place for the minority rights dialogue, think there are many racists and xenophobes in France thinking that like that they will guard it from itself, any Muslims there are their french citizens, its enough that they are ghettoized so everybody has own turf so no fear should be imposed nor by the state nor by the locals to anyone, but the rights should be afforded ...
#15156987
    Odiseizam wrote:SO YES WHEN THE RIGHTS ARE PROPERLY DESIGNATED AND PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED THERE WILL BE NO TENSION OR RADICALIZATION!!! France should stop acting victim, the truth is that "she" is oppressor on behalf of atheism, the fight with vatican was political and not religious in the french revolution, so French should finally start to recognize that their country is human-right weirdo mids europe along with Greece ... eventually I will be not surprised that the muslim radicalization is due to counterintelligence skims so there will be no space for minority rights dialogue, most probably there are many racists and xenophobes among the french elites who hope that like that they will guard it from itself so it wont loosen its francophone vibe, but any Muslims there are "their" french citizens, and think that its enough that they are ghettoized so everybody has own turf, like that no fear could be imposed nor by the state nor by the locals to anyone, so France can afford large minority rights because like that it will reset any radicalization later, and this should be done through sociological debate till which extent where those rights can be stretched, forcing someone even in his neighborhood to behave as french'bot is wrong!

    OR MAKE FROM EU RACIST UNION and expel every expat and new migrant (btw minorities conserved in reservations) because there will be many and they will need and ask for freedom to exercise their religious and cultural needs, yeah this will be possible wait a bit at least one year when mids global economic crisis when union would become Fortress Europe ~ if the ADF prediction is true ...

is this possible, hm if sanctions to Russia and Turkey became norm ahead, think that could push them to open all their borders for asian migrant routes and free influx of illegal migrants in europe, then I'll ask You wasnt better in time inequality risks to be addressed righteously, at least to be balanced!? but maybe to someone this goes from hand so it can impose more totalitarian order in europe, patriotic'act alike mass surveillance along mandatory rfid marking of vehicles and citizens!?

still think all this current anti'islam hype in France is forced as political spinn so Macron could mobilize right wing voters and secure his position ahead the next elections, the recent police brutality goes too in this gig, but as I can see he will need to employ electoral fraud as recently was case in usA, globalists dont care or fear if they push such scenarios, for them what matters is the western imperial agenda for new world order, for which Macron is ace as young and servile, indeed on behalf of democracy it will be hilarious what will happen with France in the next decade ...

https://youtu.be/96DF74Y1MmA

https://youtu.be/A8bYFjc7C3E
#15157100
To be fair, the allegations that the teacher threw around were rather inflammatory, and are fiercely disputed by other residents of Trappes

It also should be pointed out that the mayor who accused the teacher of peddling false information is now also under police protection amid allegations of death threats.

French Muslims would be right to have concerns about the fuelling of divisions this outburst may result in - especially as the French government tries to legislate yet another draconian anti-Islam law, dubbed the "seperatism bill":

It is being criticized because it targets the Muslim community and imposes restrictions on almost every aspect of their lives.

It provides for intervening in mosques and the associations responsible for their administration as well as controlling the finances of associations and non-governmental organizations belonging to Muslims.

It also restricts education choices of the Muslim community by preventing families from giving children home education.

The bill also prohibits patients from choosing doctors based on gender for religious or other reasons and makes compulsory "secularism education" for all public officials.



https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/fr ... ns/2146169

https://www.news18.com/news/world/row-o ... 33472.html
#15157117
GandlaftheGrey wrote:To be fair, the allegations that the teacher threw around were rather inflammatory, and are fiercely disputed by other residents of Trappes


Of course! A French teacher criticising the beheading of another French teacher, is clearly the "inflammatory issue".

OP article wrote:In November, in a letter to the news magazine L’Obs after Samuel Paty, a history and geography teacher, was beheaded by an Islamist, he wrote: “Schools and freedom are under attack,” adding that Paty’s murderer was the “arm of a project implemented by thousands of ideologues who, like the Nazis before them, nourish a feeling of victimisation to incite hatred.”


GandalftheGrey quoting Turkish propaganda wrote:https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/fr ... ns/2146169


The bolded claims made by the Turkish article lack context, evidently because it is just Turkish propaganda. Turkey is especially upset with France because after the terrorist attacks in France and Austria, the Grey Wolves Turkish far-right organisation was declared a terrorist organisation both in France and in Austria. Hence the sour grapes. The Grey Wolves are the paramilitary arm of the Turkish nationalist party which is Erdogan's coalition partner, so effectively part of Erdogan's government are designated terrorists.

France24 wrote:Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin said after the final debate on Saturday that the bill "provides concrete responses to... the development of radical Islam, an ideology hostile to the principles and values on which the Republic is founded."

Paty's killing prompted the inclusion of the specific crimes of online hate speech and divulging personal information on the internet that could be used to harm a public-sector worker.

Paty was the subject of an online hate campaign started by a parent of a child at his school who objected to him showing the prophet cartoons.

Under the legislation, doctors will also be fined or jailed if they perform a virginity test on girls, while it also extends sanctions on polygamy.

The state will also have far greater powers to close down places of worship that are found to air "theories or ideas" that "provoke hate or violence towards a person or people."

One of the most contentious articles concerns home schooling, with the rules considerably sharpened to require official authorisation on grounds of health or handicap for children to learn at home.


Erdogan and Turkey have absolutely no shame criticising France and calling Macron a "mental patient", while supporting China and even making a special extradition treaty targeting Uyghurs in particular, but what is the excuse of the rest?
#15157130
@noemon Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation Turkey have nothing to do with the fact that France has none of the european attitude towards minorities and freedom of religious expression, at least it should be on level of constant dialog in the society i.e. what kind of rights where and how much is acceptable to be given ...

    now, secularists and ultranationalists eager to stop even such momentum are fueling the media ring with all kind of islamophobia and eventually that is widened as debate what in the end contributes to all kind of blood mood, in this case atheists are provokers indeed !

11.02.2021 - TRUE OR FAKE: is the philosophy professor Didier Lemaire the object of threats and police protection?

For several days, Didier Lemaire, professor of philosophy at Trappes (Yvelines) has been on all television sets. :| A member of the Solidarist Republican Party, a micro-party which campaigns for uncompromising secularism, he denounces a growing Islamism which affects his city and its students.

This is not the first time that this professor has taken a position in the media. In March 2018, he wrote to Emmanuel Macron to denounce the rise of Islamism at school. After the assassination of Samuel Paty last October, he wrote a column in L'Obs . " We are at the beginning of a war of terror which will generalize and increase because a large part of our fellow citizens prefer not to see that it is our heritage that is threatened ", he notably written.

Regular patrols in front of his home and high school

Since taking a stand, Didier Lemaire says he feels in danger, although according to National Education, no threat has been reported within his school. " I did not receive direct death threats, however, after my letter to teachers in L'Obs in November, the city was in turmoil, and that is why the police commander of Trappes decided to protect me. ", he says.

Contrary to what Didier Lemaire asserts, local authorities maintain that the city is not in turmoil, but out of prevention, and for his positions, they have decided to set up protection and regular patrols in front of his home. and his high school. The device was extended at the end of January, when Didier Lemaire intervened in a Dutch television report on Islam and the suburbs. According to the professor, the journalist had expressed concern about threats targeting him. Franceinfo contacted the Dutch journalist who made the documentary. But she declined to say more about these threats.

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/religion/vrai-ou-fake-le-professeur-de-philosophie-didier-lemaire-fait-il-l-objet-de-menaces-et-d-une-protection-policiere_4292957.html
#15157132
Odiseizam wrote:Turkey have nothing to do with the fact that France has none of the european attitude towards minorities and freedom of religious expression, at least it should be on level of constant dialog in the society i.e. what kind of rights where and how much is acceptable to be given ...


Claiming that Turkey protects Christians and other minorities better than France protects Muslims and other minorities is quite shameless Turkish propaganda.
There is no Muslim country where Christians and other minorities enjoy the benefits that Muslim minorities enjoy in France, Europe and the west.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_pogrom

Get a grip on yourself.

A French teacher has every right to discuss, analyse and criticise the stuff that led to the beheading of another French teacher and the mourning of hundreds of other victims.

France, home to Europe's largest Muslim community, is still shaken by the succession of massacres committed by Islamist militants from January 2015 that left hundreds dead.


How does Erdogan explain to his Muslim supporters that the "French are enemies of the Muslims", while the Chinese who are putting Muslims in concentration camps are not.
Erdogan recently called Muslims to insult, boycott and hate France which is also what you -faithful to Turkish patronage- also repeat but no word on China, and in fact Erdogan handed over an extradition treaty to China so that China can take Uyghurs hiding in Turkey and re-educate them.

How does anyone have the hypocrisy to blame France for "mistreating" Muslims by citing Turkey who mistreats minorities 100 times worse than France and by staying silent on China who is actually mistreating Muslims. :eh:
#15157140
The problem is when Muslim leaders threaten Europeans and we get beheadings and then have the cheek to call the French racists while these Muslim leaders are 1000 times worse and while at the same time they are saying nothing about China's Muslim concentration camps.
#15157168
@noemon again spinning around, this topic has nothing to do with Turkey or other Muslim country!!! its about french nationalism not willing to mitigate the risks but continually pumping it ...

why there are not beheadings in uK or Italy or Germany? France needs to come to its senses or it would became prime target of frustrated poor migrants that will flush their anger like this! and only right mitigation of such risks is by integration through acknowledging the right of selfdetermination as it please some minority, in this case religious one that after the syrian war supported by eU now backfired with fanatism imported on own soil, what cant be loosen differently but by resetting of any risks that can feed it, broader minority rights in this respect is the only way out from greater animosity and totalitarian control!
#15157173
Odiseizam wrote:why there are not beheadings in uK or Italy or Germany?


Because these countries are not the constant targets of Muslim leaders like Erdogan and other hate-preachers.

This topic has everything to do with Muslim leaders who fanaticise Muslims against French & Austrian people(only countries who firmly stood up to Erdogan's blackmailing the past 2 years).

This fanaticism then results to terrorist attacks in these countries. In response both these countries banned the Turkish Grey Wolves as a terrorist organisation.

Erdogan just this past summer called global Muslims to arms from the Agia Sophia on the day of the anniversary of the Lausanne Treaty.

Simply accusing France for being the host of the largest Muslim community in Europe is laughable, at least take the effort to explain what you think France is doing wrong.

Then explain the hypocrisy of badmouthing France(for what?), while staying silent on what China is doing to the Uyghurs.
#15157175
while supporting China for sterilising and imprisoning indigenous Muslims just for being Muslims.


What the hell is an indigenous Muslim in this context? Islam did not exists in this region when the tang dynasty first conquered it. Islam was brought to the han chinese, xinjiang and other central and east asian turkik peoples by the arabs centuries after the tang first established chinese presence there..

And no...not for being muslim - for being radical extremists; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack

And the 'reversible' sterilization has nothing to do with islam or xinjiang in particular. It's practiced all over china for various reasons.
#15157177
Igor Antunov wrote:What the hell is an indigenous Muslim in this context? Islam did not exists in this region when the tang dynasty first conquered it. Islam was brought to xinjiang and other central and east asian turkik peoples by the arabs.


East Turkestan Republic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Eas ... n_Republic

Igor Antunov wrote:And no...not for being muslim - for being radical extremists; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack


Very doubtful that the massive people incarcerated in China for pre-crimes are "extremists".

Igor Antunov wrote:And the 'reversible' sterilization has nothing to do with islam or xinjiang in particular. It's practiced all over china for various reasons.


The fact is forced IUD's can only be removed by Chinese authorities, only for reasons deemed sufficient and they become permanent sterilisations if the monitoring schedule is violated.
#15157196
noemon wrote:Of course! A French teacher criticising the beheading of another French teacher, is clearly the "inflammatory issue".


I hope you'll never again accuse me of jumping into a debate without being across the actual arguments or evidence:

actual inflammatory accusations that noemon missed from his own source wrote:he claimed that radical Islamists drove Jews out of Trappes two decades ago and are now forcing “atheists and moderate Muslims” to leave the town as well.

He said their influence had led to the closure of unisex hairdressers in the town and dissuaded women of north African origin from entering its cafés: “They cannot go in without feeling intimidated, threatened,” he said.

“My pupils, generally speaking, no longer feel French. They have other customs, an ideology that separates them from liberty and equality. Girls are under the influence of boys. It is a world that is very different to ours.”




The bolded claims made by the Turkish article lack context, evidently because it is just Turkish propaganda. Turkey is especially upset with France because after the terrorist attacks in France and Austria, the Grey Wolves Turkish far-right organisation was declared a terrorist organisation both in France and in Austria. Hence the sour grapes. The Grey Wolves are the paramilitary arm of the Turkish nationalist party which is Erdogan's coalition partner, so effectively part of Erdogan's government are designated terrorists.



Erdogan and Turkey have absolutely no shame criticising France and calling Macron a "mental patient", while supporting China and even making a special extradition treaty targeting Uyghurs in particular, but what is the excuse of the rest?


Nobody here is disputing the rank hypocricy and cynicism of Erdogan. Admittedly I didn't realise my first source was Turkish, and I suspect the 'not allowed to choose gender specific doctors' is actually doctors no longer allowed to perform virginity tests. At least thats the closest I can find to it in mainstream sources.

Yet the fact remains the proposed bill - in addition to inflammatory commentary such as this school teacher's - would understandably make good law-abiding muslims feel even more alienated than they already feel. And the cynic in me suspects that Macron is only pushing this as a dog whistle to win back the huge numbers of centre and centre-right voters who are flocking to Le Penn.
#15157201
Perhaps Macron is playing the political game but how much can he be criticised when he is responding to a real terrorist epidemic and obviously the basis of that criticism should be on what measures it is that he is actually taking and these are not harsh anti-Muslim measures by any stretch.

Lemair's observations regarding his neighbourhood are not up to me to judge, if you have something to say about them you can demonstrate whatever that may be.
#15157206
noemon wrote:While Erdogan's Turkey who criticises the French and Europeans on Muslim issues repeatedly, has now signed a new extradition treaty with China tailored particularly for Uyghurs.

Yes they seem like hypocrites to me. The question is why would they support China in this? Fear of China backlash?
#15157208
noemon wrote:Perhaps Macron is playing the political game but how much can he be criticised when he is responding to a real terrorist epidemic and obviously the basis of that criticism should be on what measures it is that he is actually taking and these are not harsh anti-Muslim measures by any stretch.


"what measures he is taking" hasn't even been decided yet - as the bill is being debated as we speak. And its worth pointing out that the opposition is pushing for much harsher ammendments to be made to the bill - including the wholesale ban of the hijab in all public spaces. While Macron has a majority and can pass whatever he likes, he will undoubtedly be mindful of the next election and the threat from the right.

Lemair's observations regarding his neighbourhood are not up to me to judge, if you have something to say about them you can demonstrate whatever that may be.


I already linked an article where residents of Trappes voice their objection to his accusations. Led by the mayor himself. Its possible there is a grain of truth in what he says - but either way his claims are sweeping and overgeneralised, with no qualifications like saying "not all muslim establishments are like this" etc (at least not in the excerpt that was quoted). Inherently that comes across as typecasting a particular demographic, prejudicial and more than a little bit hysterical. Hence inflaming the situation - unnecessarily.

Even if there was some truth to it - there is a way to say things delicately and appropriately.

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