[Potemkin]

I wonder how many of modern day Britain's problems can be traced back to ancient mummy curses. Hmm...

EDIT: @noemon Have you guys considered gifting them a giant wooden horse in exchange for the statues?

Well, if people insist on leaving stuff just lying around, what are we supposed to do? Leave it there?

A giant wooden horse you say? Hmm... what could possibly go wrong...?

[noemon]

Honestly, the only "principle" involved here is the obvious fact that if the UK gives the Parthenon marbles back to Greece, they have to do the same with all the other stuff they looted over the years. It's infuriating, but until Britain is well and truly humbled and weakened it just ain't gonna happen.

I'm sure the Queen would be a very sad panda if she had to give the Koh-i-Noor back to Pakistan or India.

I seriously doubt it. There are so many things that show this not to be true. Museums exchange things all the time, it is part of what they do.

Exhibiting the Parthenon Marbles in their place of origin should not be an issue in the year 2021 especially among friends & partners. France giving them back has not set any precedent for the Louvre.

The Koh-i-Noor is not an Indian cultural artefact, it's a diamond mined in India and recut several times by several different rulers.

It does not represent the finest piece of art ever created by Indian hands to mark their most important historical achievement.

The fact is that the artefacts found in museums can very rarely be claimed by another modern people, because it is extremely rare for the artefact's rightful owners to still be around, nationally organised and capable of lodging a complaint.

As a person deeply immersed in British history, British [Phil]Hellenism & British Freemasonic history I can say without a shadow of a doubt that for Boris, Britain and the British Hellenists, the Parthenon Marbles have enormous religious significance and hence their centre-piece place in Britain for 200 years now. The Parthenon marbles are not just centre-piece in the British Museum, they are centre-piece in the ethno-cultural narrative of modern Britain.

The ownership Boris is referring to is not about petty legal matters.

Boris and the British Classicists would do away with the Royals before they would have to part with the Parthenon Marbles.

[ness31]

I'm sure the Queen would be a very sad panda if she had to give the Koh-i-Noor back to Pakistan or India.

I watched an interview with the Queen where she talks about gems and stones and she clearly views them as entities that have a kind of soul. So yes, I think she’d be devastated to part with any of her friends.

I’d definitely put the Koh-i-Noor in the same class as the Parthenon Marbles.

[noemon]

This is testament to the religious authority that the Parthenon Marbles command in the British psyche, when they convince even British leftists to argue that exhibiting the Parthenon Marbles in their place of origin would bring the end of the Museum as we know it.

It won't, this is just a trench.

End of times entrenchment is the most obvious mark of the desperate. It's the stamp.

[ness31]

I can’t believe they re-named them

[noemon]

I’d definitely put the Koh-i-Noor in the same class as the Parthenon Marbles.

I can't believe someone would put a bloody(literally) gemstone on the same class as a 160 metre frieze created by the collective funds of a democratic people to commemorate their victory against the Persians(and their safety from genocide) by narrating their own history on the stone.

This is a personal item.

Britain could have been the recipient of much love, she chose not to and opted to be the parochial and embarrassing corner of Europe, once again.

Providence always find a way however and this is a losing battle, indeed.

[ness31]

I can't believe someone would put a bloody(literally) gemstone on the same class as a 160 metre frieze created by the collective funds of a democratic people to commemorate their victory against the Persians(and their safety from genocide) by narrating their own history on the stone.

This is a personal item.

Britain could have been the recipient of much love, she chose not to and opted to be the parochial and embarrassing corner of Europe, once again.

Providence always find a way however and this is a losing battle.

You’re missing the point Noemon. You have to understand how the Brits view natural substances. Diamonds, pearls, marble, stone. These mediums give the art works their life and determine the character of the ghosts even some 2000 years after modeling.

Don’t let that wonderful Greek pride of yours get in the way of seeing the bigger picture here as to what the Brits are actually about

And don’t underestimate the work that went into cutting that diamond either

Edit - and while it might not seem like it, the Brits are fiercely protecting what is so sacredly Greek. They’re just shit at explaining stuff

Edit - still don’t understand why they re-named them. Was the ownership aspect so bloody important?

[noemon]

The only thing I am witnessing is British ultra-nationalism on display trying to convince itself and the world that if the Parthenon marbles are exhibited in their original place that will bring the "end of the museum".

A view expressed only by the British and not by any other museum in the world, if you needed any more evidence as to who is the "nationalist" here. You express a view shared only by yourself, exceptionalism on the nth.

I want my cultural artefact back, it's important because it expresses the history of my nation. What is your excuse?

I also see the fact that you are trying to reduce the collective artistic expression of the Greek people who financed it out of their pocket to narrate their own history, to some gemstone mined by a warlord.

This is called sour grapes.

Muslims, Slavs, even Germans passed by the Acropolis but nobody dared to touch the Parthenon, nobody could bring themselves to tear it down, only the British(by intent) and the Venetians(by accident), forever marking those people as the most savage, cruel and pathetic in world history.

[ness31]

That marble was mined also. The marble is the medium for the art.

I’m not opposed to the marbles return. In an ideal world they would never have been taken

[noemon]

Do you ever wonder why the Acropolis is a ruin?

Because the British ruined it. The Acropolis stood still for thousands of years up until the modern age. It was not destroyed by ancient barbarians, or medieval Muslims or Christians or unknown pillagers.

It was systematically torn down by the British ambassador in the 1800's while the Greek revolution was in full swing.

A normal person does not argue about "ownership" shared or otherwise, a normal person apologises, some of you even dare call yourselves leftists.

[ness31]

They fucked up. Wouldn’t be the first time

And yes, they absolutely should apologize. Did I mention they’re shit at expressing important things?

[noemon]

No excuse for not making it right in the year 2021.

[Potemkin]

Do you ever wonder why the Acropolis is a ruin?

Because the British ruined it. The Acropolis stood still for thousands of years up until the modern age. It was not destroyed by ancient barbarians, or medieval Muslims or Christians or unknown pillagers.

It was systematically torn down by the British ambassador in the 1800's while the Greek revolution was in full swing.

A normal person does not argue about "ownership" shared or otherwise, a normal person apologises.

But that was the best time to do it @noemon - while people's attention was distracted. Yoik!

[ness31]

No excuse for not making it right in the year 2021.

Hey it might happen. But the Brits will make the Greeks jump through many many mannnnny hoops. How bad do ya’ll want it back?

[noemon]

And yes, they absolutely should apologize. Did I mention they’re shit at expressing important things?

The British and their PM have no trouble telling the Greeks that they are inferior specimen, unworthy of respect.

That is quite an important thing to tell another.

[ness31]

The British and their PM have no trouble telling the Greeks that they are inferior specimen, unworthy of respect.

That is quite an important thing to tell another.

Do you actually believe the British view Greece as inferior? Ludicrous!

[Rugoz]

Do you ever wonder why the Acropolis is a ruin?

Because the British ruined it. The Acropolis stood still for thousands of years up until the modern age. It was not destroyed by ancient barbarians, or medieval Muslims or Christians or unknown pillagers.

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/mo ... enon-blown

AFAIK the Brits might have taken parts of it, but didn't destroy it.

[ness31]

I assumed he meant the looting took its toll. Which it would

[noemon]

:eh:

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/mo ... enon-blown

AFAIK the Brits might have taken parts of it, but didn't destroy it.

The British were the ones who tore it down systematically and intentionally.

The Venetians were mentioned by myself as well but their destruction of the Parthenon a few years before the British was more accidental than intentional and it was not so that they can carry it away.

And the most important thing is that this Venetian story is a distraction and way overblown. When Elgin tore the marbles down they were in place, intact which means that the entire structure was unified as the frieze run along the entire building.

Do you actually believe the British view Greece as inferior? Ludicrous!

Why can the most important Greek cultural artefact not be exhibited in Greece?

What does it mean for the British PM telling the Greek nation that he "owns" the Parthenon Marbles?

How would you feel is someone told you that they literally own the original Magna Carta?

That not just the paper it is written on but what it represents(the essence of the will of the people) belongs to them and not to you.

[ness31]

Why can the most important Greek cultural artefact not be exhibited in Greece?

What does it mean for the British PM telling the Greek nation that he "owns" the Parthenon Marbles?

How would you feel is someone told you that they literally own the original Magna Carta?

They absolutely should be in Greece. But they’re not. Why? What were the motives?

It’s almost as if the Brits see themselves as being synonymous with the Greeks.