[JohnRawls]

No @JohnRawls. Since the poverty rate is not determined by comparisons to other countries, but based on the country's average income and other factors, it can be judged by percentage.

You are talking about being POOR, which is something completely different, and cannot be compared, since it's based on perception.

Russia might be "poor" by American standards, but it's pretty irrelevant. Are the rents comparable? What about buying power?

GDP comparisons are dumb, too. This is just a thread by a guy wanting to slag Russians.

Yeah yeah, the usual GDP PPP per capita argument that is bullshit to a large degree. The only thing you buy with PPP is food, land and property and the rest is nominal and subject to global market prices. The only reason land and property is relatively almost not subject to that is because you can't take land with the house and move it to another country. Food can be shipped but governments usually don't allow that to happen due to people discontent so it is subject to that. Then everything else you buy is in nominal be it cars, phones, furniture, cloths and so on....

This is the real benefit of living in developed countries. Reality is that you almost never can buy phones, microchips, cars, furniture and so on way beyond the market price with NO country being an exception. Not US and Not China and Not the EU and so on and so forth.

[wat0n]

You're forgetting plenty of services, @JohnRawls. You can't quite import haircuts or healthcare.

[litwin]

Russia's GDP .....

fresh statistic >

3/4 Muscovites don't have savings sounds like 1916 ....

https://www.sibreal.org/a/tri-chetverti ... 78123.html

[JohnRawls]

You're forgetting plenty of services, @JohnRawls. You can't quite import haircuts or healthcare.

I guess that is also fair if you exclude the inherent goods needed to conduct those services or the manpower drain because of lower salaries. But that is a fair argument.

[JohnRawls]

fresh statistic >

3/4 Muscovites don't have savings sounds like 1916 ....

https://www.sibreal.org/a/tri-chetverti ... 78123.html

Savings are not indicative of prosperity actually. A lot of places in the West have low savings rates. But I have nothing else to sight on the subject honestly.

[wat0n]

I guess that is also fair if you exclude the inherent goods needed to conduct those services or the manpower drain because of lower salaries. But that is a fair argument.

Well, the inputs are of course traded internationally. But the labor in those cases (and plenty of others) requires the costumer to actually be wherever the workers are.

No @JohnRawls. Since the poverty rate is not determined by comparisons to other countries, but based on the country's average income and other factors, it can be judged by percentage.

You are talking about being POOR, which is something completely different, and cannot be compared, since it's based on perception.

Russia might be "poor" by American standards, but it's pretty irrelevant. Are the rents comparable? What about buying power?

GDP comparisons are dumb, too. This is just a thread by a guy wanting to slag Russians.

The question in the OP is precisely why is Russia so "poor" (in reality, it's a middle income country, not a poor one).

Poverty rates are simply a percentage of the population falling below some level of income or consumption that society believes is the line between "poor" and "not poor". Richer countries will generally have more demanding definitions than the rest, which is normal but also means cross country comparisons are kind of pointless if different definitions are being used.

[litwin]

Savings are not indicative of prosperity actually. A lot of places in the West have low savings rates. But I have nothing else to sight on the subject honestly.

Move to Omsk you Ivan lover



https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-poverty-i ... 29514.html

[litwin]

The question in the OP is precisely why is Russia so "poor" (in reality, it's a middle income country, not a poor one).

RT.ru lie

the reality >

Russia is the most unequal major country in the world: Study
https://www.cnbc.com › 2016/09/01 › russia-is-the-mos...
— Russia is the most unequal major economy in the world, with almost two-thirds of its wealth controlled by millionaires, a wealth research ...


Russia Named World's Most Unequal Economy. Russia has the world's highest levels of wealth inequality, ...

Russia Named World's Most Unequal Economy - The Moscow ...

[JohnRawls]

Well, the inputs are of course traded internationally. But the labor in those cases (and plenty of others) requires the costumer to actually be wherever the workers are.



The question in the OP is precisely why is Russia so "poor" (in reality, it's a middle income country, not a poor one).

Poverty rates are simply a percentage of the population falling below some level of income or consumption that society believes is the line between "poor" and "not poor". Richer countries will generally have more demanding definitions than the rest, which is normal but also means cross country comparisons are kind of pointless if different definitions are being used.

Not necessarily. My opinion on the subject is that you are not poor if you are part of the middle class and being part of the middle class means that you have to have probably certain things which might be a bit different for each country but majority of them are more or less universal:

1) Flat/House (PPP entity)
2) Car (Nominal entity)
3) Payment for electricity, gasoline, etc (Nominal entities)
4) Buying household items be it dishwasher, fridge, furniture whatever (Nominal entity)
5) Having enough food to eat (PPP entity)
6) Consumer certain services and this is where it becomes vague because it heavily depends on the service. For example tourism is a nominal entity while a hairdresser is probably a PPP entity.
7) Buying personal items like phone, computer and so on (Nominal entity)

[JohnRawls]

Move to Omsk you Ivan lover



https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-poverty-i ... 29514.html

We have been through this several times now. I am not an "Ivan" lover but I don't argue with statistics. Having high savings rate can be bad for the economy and makes you poorer long term hence there are debt financed growth in the West both from the side of regular people and the governments. So saying that having savings is inherently good or bad is wrong. It just depends on the situation.

You also kinda always post without reading which is annoying since I am one of the most anti-Putin people on this forum. Calling me "Ivan" lover probably makes other people laugh at you if they even read your posts at all anymore.

[wat0n]

Not necessarily. My opinion on the subject is that you are not poor if you are part of the middle class and being part of the middle class means that you have to have probably certain things which might be a bit different for each country but majority of them are more or less universal:

1) Flat/House (PPP entity)
2) Car (Nominal entity)
3) Payment for electricity, gasoline, etc (Nominal entities)
4) Buying household items be it dishwasher, fridge, furniture whatever (Nominal entity)
5) Having enough food to eat (PPP entity)
6) Consumer certain services and this is where it becomes vague because it heavily depends on the service. For example tourism is a nominal entity while a hairdresser is probably a PPP entity.
7) Buying personal items like phone, computer and so on (Nominal entity)

Plenty of countries simply base their national poverty lines in being able to afford a certain number of food baskets. Internationally, it's the old $2/day in PPP (not relevant for any OECD country).

[litwin]

We have been through this several times now. I am not an "Ivan" lover but I don't argue with statistics. Having high savings rate can be bad for the economy and makes you poorer long term hence there are debt financed growth in the West both from the side of regular people and the governments. So saying that having savings is inherently good or bad is wrong. It just depends on the situation.

You also kinda always post without reading which is annoying since I am one of the most anti-Putin people on this forum. Calling me "Ivan" lover probably makes other people laugh at you if they even read your posts at all anymore.

I am just much smarter , better educated than most "other people" here, you are smart I must admit , still, you very often have pro - moscow/ivan - loving strings attached to your posts , but I see them ...thats why I called you Ivan - Lover

so what can you say about the shoes´statistic ?

https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-poverty-i ... 29514.html

[JohnRawls]

I am just much smarter , better educated than most "other people" here, you are smart I must admit , still, you very often have pro - moscow/ivan - loving strings attached to your posts , but I see them ...thats why I called you Ivan - Lover

so what can you say about the shoes´statistic ?

https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-poverty-i ... 29514.html

It is indicative of low economic development and low GDP nominal per capita of the country. If you have read the previous posts, this is exactly what I am arguing with others here that cloths and so on is a nominal product which for countries with low gdp nominal per capita is harder to buy compared to countries with a higher number.

[litwin]

It is indicative of low economic development and low GDP nominal per capita of the country. If you have read the previous posts, this is exactly what I am arguing with others here that cloths and so on is a nominal product which for countries with low gdp nominal per capita is harder to buy compared to countries with a higher number.

ok, what do you know about putin´s statistic manipulations and Muscovite´s "Household Income per Capita" reality ( from 2014) ?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... cade-chart

[Rancid]

@JohnRawls is an fucking Ivan lover.

[JohnRawls]

ok, what do you know about putin´s statistic manipulations and Muscovite´s "Household Income per Capita" reality ( from 2014) ?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... cade-chart

Are you trying to insinuate that me or most people here do not understand that Dictatorial regimes falsify economic or social statistics? I think that you are barking the wrong tree here.

[Rancid]

We need an anti-CCP version of litwin.

[Negotiator]

The income inequality is measured by the Gini.

The Gini of Russia is quite bad: 37.5 - but the Gini of the USA is worse: 41.4.

For comparison:

UK - 35.1
Germany - 31.9
France - 32.4
Austrialia - 34.4
Canada - 33.3
China - 38.5
India - 35.7
Brasilia - 53.4
South Africa - 63.0

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

If people claim "Russia has the highest inequality" I would assume they are refering to the rule of Boris Jeltzin, which was a massive economic desaster.

And if people wonder why Russia (and many other countries) have economic trouble, the answer is: illegal sanctions by the USA.

[BlutoSays]

Russia is still poor because they STILL centrally plan their economy. /thread

[Rich]

A better thread title in my opinion would have been "Why is Russia so poor? And why is Ukraine even poorer?"

Given the current situation of particular note should be the economic success or failure of Eastern Ukraine under the stewardship of the Ukrainian state. So I think that Estonia has undoubtedly been better off as its own state independent of Russia. Western Ukraine has probably done better, but the case for Eastern Ukraine is very weak.