[Tainari88]

How many poor British people do you know if you live in the UK?

It looks similar to the problems faced in the nations where the neoliberals are in charge.

Neoliberalism=Bad poverty.

[skinster]

We're too busy spending money on wars and propaganda outfits that sell wars than feeding people at home, who in recent times have had the wonderful choice during winter to pick between eating and heating.

[Puffer Fish]

Neoliberalism=Bad poverty.

Many can agree that Neoliberlism is bad. But of those who agree, they cannot necessarily agree on an alternative.

You can either go Right, or you can go Left. Otherwise you have to get really creative and come up with an alternative.

I personally think immigration has been hurting living standards in the UK, particularly the surrounding London area, which is like the economic heart of the U.K. (The surrounding London area contains 13.1% of the population of the U.K. and 16% of the population of England)
In older times it used to be that poor people would come to London for better opportunities. Now they can no longer afford to live there, or there is too much competition from foreign immigrants.

But I also think there is more than that going on in U.K. There is economic stagnation. In part I think because too many laws and regulations. The British economy was sort of doomed when it lost its global Trade Empire, and today the U.K. doesn't produce things the rest of the world wants, nor does it manufacture much.

[snapdragon]

The reason is the cost of living has rocketed over the past year or so, but incomes haven’t risen to match.

The reasons for this are many and varied. In no particular order of importance: the war in Ukraine, brexit, covid, the Tory government. And more

[Puffer Fish]

The reason is the cost of living has rocketed over the past year or so, but incomes haven’t risen to match.

Inflation!
Some of that is due to inflation.

(wages wouldn't have to keep up if inflation did not happen in the first place)

You can thank the budget deficits during Covid (coronavirus pandemic).
I don't think you can just blame the Tory government for that. We all know Labour probably would have spent even a little more, maybe even shut down the economy more. (and the Left in the US was creating a lot of hysteria that got piped into other English-speaking countries like the UK)
The Tories knew they had to go overboard and take all those measures, otherwise the Labour-supporting media would blast them for not doing it.

The reasons for this are many and varied. In no particular order of importance: the war in Ukraine, brexit, covid, the Tory government. And more

The conflict in Ukraine and Brexit are factors, to be sure, but I do not think they are the main factors. They're only the most visible of the factors, the icing on top of the cake.
To be more technical, Brexit itself was not really so much of an economic problem but rather the ejection out of the European common trade area which, because of politics, came along with it. We can argue about who's really to blame for that.
In the old days, Britain could have handled a war in Ukraine with ease (think about the Crimean war), but these days it seems to be straining from the conflict (with which it is not even directly involved in or singularly responsible for).

[Puffer Fish]

I think problems could be seen already before the coronavirus pandemic.

Already in 2017, homelessness could be seen on the streets in many major cities and there were huge numbers of people living out of vehicles. The working class has really been in a pinch. It wasn't like the 1990s.

And of course Ireland's tech bubble burst (around 2008 ), which did have some small impact on the UK.

[Negotiator]

Why, the alternative to neoliberalism or, to be more precise, capitalism, or the rule of the rich, since neoliberalism is really just an ideology trying to justify the later, is of course democracy, the rule of the people.

A healthy democracy cannot have a too wide spread in wealth between the rich and regular people. Because at a certain point its unjust if the rich get rich and more rich and regular people stagnate or even fall in wealth, as it is so common here in the west, since that is one of the functions of capitalism.

And a true democracy shouldnt have poverty. A poor person certainly is never going to be truely part of the people. They can be blackmailed in every way, and dont have the means and time to inform themselves about whats going on, and thus cannot actually participate politically.

This is exactly the reason why conservatives want the main, dominant task of a state to protect the wealth of people. Effectively they want to allow the creation of a priviledged, rich class, which effectively rules over regular and even more so poor people. Conservatives fundamentally oppose democracy. They want to be ruled by the "enlightened", i.e. by rich people. They like capitalism, an inherently unjust and exploitative system.

While progressives say that most people can and should participate in politics. True progressives are pro-workers, anti-war, pro-human-rights. Many who right now claim to be left wing arent actually. This is the woke movement, the successor of the neoliberal ideology, a new ideology trying to justify capitalism, but with different means.

[Rancid]

Hell yea, fuck poor people.

Many who right now claim to be left wing arent actually.

Do you think this benefits conservatives? Something I've been thinking about. We have a lot of "leftist" supporting the right wing. Who gets the better end of that deal? Or, is it just he left playing realpolitik. Compromising it's principles now for principled gains later?

[skinster]

Many who right now claim to be left wing arent actually. This is the woke movement, the successor of the neoliberal ideology, a new ideology trying to justify capitalism, but with different means.

All of your post was correct, but this bit is worth quoting because it describes a bunch of people here to a T.

Some of them are just useful idiots, but some know exactly what they're doing.

As if the state gives a shit about anyone's identity.

[Skynet]

The Brexit is a huge setback for the UK. This was a generation vote, in 2034 is a generation over, so the Brits can vote again?

Britain is more isolated from the EU then Turkey.

[Rancid]

Britain shot itself on the foot.

[Unthinking Majority]

Britain shot itself on the foot.

Would you chose more wealth over freedom/independence? A lot of stay-at-home moms have left crappy husbands, had to paid legal fees, and had to work at Walmart in order to get out of a relationship they didn't like.

Personally I think every non-Brit's opinion on this is irrelevant and its frankly none of their business. Sovereign democracies are allowed to decide their own fate.

[ingliz]

too much competition from foreign immigrants

There's not much competition in the NHS. The English don't want to wipe arses for a pittance.

Without immigrants, the NHS would collapse.

hurting living standards in the UK

The English working class are their own worst enemy. They refuse to organize.

Only 23.5% of the UK workforce belong to a trade union, while 46.6% are employed in a workplace where a trade union is present.

23.5%

In the 70s, 55.4% of the workforce was unionized.

Union shops had the power to set wages and conditions, and the non-union workers could piggyback off them.

[Rancid]

Would you chose more wealth over freedom/independence? A lot of stay-at-home moms have left crappy husbands, had to paid legal fees, and had to work at Walmart in order to get out of a relationship they didn't like.

Personally I think every non-Brit's opinion on this is irrelevant and its frankly none of their business. Sovereign democracies are allowed to decide their own fate.

How much independence did the average British citizen gain for their loss of wealth?

Anyway, I don't agree with the "this doesn't involve you, so you can't have an opinion" stuff. By default, my opinion doesn't matter too much because I'm not a British voter. However, we are all socially and economically connected. What Britain decides to do, does affect the rest of the world. I can have an opinion about that. To say I can't, is imperialism of the thought.

[ThirdTerm]

I personally think immigration has been hurting living standards in the UK, particularly the surrounding London area, which is like the economic heart of the U.K. (The surrounding London area contains 13.1% of the population of the U.K. and 16% of the population of England)

London is by far the wealthiest city in Britain, despite the fact that there are deprived migrant communities in South London. People living in Kensington and Chelsea, and Hammersmith and Fulham have on average £60,277 a year to spend – nearly three times the UK average of £21,440. People in Nottingham have the least disposable income in the UK, earning £12,445 a year on average after tax through jobs or benefits. 25% of them are British Asians whose poverty rates are highest compared to other ethnic groups. In 2022, an analysis found that BME people are 2.2 times more likely to live in deep poverty (an income more than 50% below the relative poverty line).


Who is in poverty?
Some groups are more likely than others to be in poverty.

In 2021/22, poverty rates were highest for people in households where the head of the household is from the Pakistani or Bangladeshi ethnic groups and lowest for those from White ethnic groups.

Around 38% of working-age adults in workless families were in relative poverty before housing costs in 2021/22, compared to 10% in families where at least one adult was in work.

43% of social renters and 35% of private renters were in relative low income after housing costs in 2021/22, compared to 15% of people who owned their home outright and 9% of those who have a mortgage.

The proportion of people in relative low income before housing costs (BHC) was 24% for families where someone is disabled, compared to 14% for people living in families where no one is disabled.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn07096/

[albionfagan]

In 1979 there was a revolution in Iran, but there was also one in Britain which has so profoundly changed this country, very much for the worse in my opinion, but even its proponents would not deny the radicalism which took over Britain. It amazes me the Conservatives have been allowed to keep their name, such a misnomer it is. The free market bonanza which began with Thatcher and was devoutly continued by New Labour has ripped up what underpinned much of the UK financially, concentrated its wealth generation almost entirely in financial services and in the city of London. There have been 'good times' where people have by and large kept afloat and even thrived, but always there has been the spectre of the next crash. You do not have to be some kind of far left beard-merchant to see the failings. Sadly, I fear it is too late now. We've created a vain, aggressive culture of individualism which serves to benefit very few.

Britain is a country completely indebted, which produces nothing of tangible value and has diminished itself politically to a laughing stock.

[Rancid]

I thought Brexit would make them richer?

[late]

Britain shot itself on the foot.

After it shot itself in the head..

https://www.amazon.com/Price-Inequality-Divided-Society-Endangers/dp/0393345068/ref=sr_1_5?crid=34NRRXWXAIAJ3&keywords=stiglitz+economics&qid=1702651150&sprefix=stiglitz%2Caps%2C133&sr=8-5

[Tainari88]

In 1979 there was a revolution in Iran, but there was also one in Britain which has so profoundly changed this country, very much for the worse in my opinion, but even its proponents would not deny the radicalism which took over Britain. It amazes me the Conservatives have been allowed to keep their name, such a misnomer it is. The free market bonanza which began with Thatcher and was devoutly continued by New Labour has ripped up what underpinned much of the UK financially, concentrated its wealth generation almost entirely in financial services and in the city of London. There have been 'good times' where people have by and large kept afloat and even thrived, but always there has been the spectre of the next crash. You do not have to be some kind of far left beard-merchant to see the failings. Sadly, I fear it is too late now. We've created a vain, aggressive culture of individualism which serves to benefit very few.

Britain is a country completely indebted, which produces nothing of tangible value and has diminished itself politically to a laughing stock.

The ordinary citizens of the UK are the ones who have to be active and involved to change their own government's failings. If the lower classes allow that Thatcherite problem to snowball? They are also to blame. Each nation has to be very very active in pressuring their government systems in order to get better results. If you do not pressure these incompetents you get nowhere over time. It is not just the UK you know.

[Tainari88]

There's not much competition in the NHS. The English don't want to wipe arses for a pittance.

Without immigrants, the NHS would collapse.





The English working class are their own worst enemy. They refuse to organize.

Only 23.5% of the UK workforce belong to a trade union, while 46.6% are employed in a workplace where a trade union is present.


In the 70s, 55.4% of the workforce was unionized.

Union shops had the power to set wages and conditions, and the non-union workers could piggyback off them.

The USA has a lot less union labor in general.

I think the English working class do not want to get paid a pittance.

The Mexicans and the Central Americans do in the USA what the Pakistanis and Bangladesh, etc immigrant groups do in the UK.

They use immigrants from very poverty stricken nations to do the jobs that the Native English or American citizens refuse or do not like doing due to low wages and bad working conditions.

I was shocked at the low wages paid in the UK. It is much worse than I thought it was. I thought they would have a decent minimum wage standard. The reality is I find it appalling how low the wages are in the UK @ingliz.

60k plus pounds a year for the people living in Kensington and Chelsea? That is low shit for the comparable neighborhoods in NYC or Chicago or Los Angeles or San Francisco in the USA.

People do not make that much money in the United Kingdom.

This is the average in Denver, Colorado USA Ingliz (the average Denverite makes a lot more per year than the ones living in Chelsea or Kensington in London, UK)

What is the average salary in Denver?
As of Dec 23 the average annual salary in Denver is $67,627.Just in case you need a simple salary calculator, that works out to be approximately $32.51 an hour. This is equivalent of $1,300 a week or $5,635 a month. Most salaries in Denver range between $49,622 (25th percentile) to $84,169 (75th percentile) annually.