[Gletkin]

Polish People Prefer Communist Poland To That Of Today

Warsaw, Poland 23 February, 2007 Polish people are more proud of Poland under the communists than they are of Poland under the Kaczynski Government of the Fourth Republic - according to a poll just run by a popular Polish newspaper, Gazeta Wyborcza.

People were asked about four periods in Polands history. They responded that they are most proud of the Second Republic of Poland. Their second preference was for the Third Republic of Poland whose leaders the current government is actively trying to replace and discredit. Communist Poland was third. And the people are least proud of the Fourth Republic of Poland. See

The people who are most proud of Communist Poland are people with lower levels of education and who live in the countryside. 56% of them are over 60. 26% are in the 29 to 39 age bracket. 53% of the people who are proud of the fourth republic were members of Law and Justice Party.

The largest number of people who are most proud of Communist Poland are people who are staunch supporters of the current government and the Fourth Republic Poland. So appears that the people hate the communists but they like what the communists did. It might be said that they like communism.

In the city's 62 percent of the people are proud of the Third Republic. They are not proud of the Kaczynski Fourth Repubic.

Interesting how the trend in Poland and to some degree Russia is the exact opposite of America. Here, all the commies tend to be in the cities. Whereas in Poland those somewhat sympathetic to communism tend to be in the countryside.

[Shade2]

Well it isn't surprising. That period was quite heroic and part of young life for people-Solidarity, resisting the Soviets, abolishing the Soviet tyranny by popular resistance. They are a lot of things to be proud about. In contrast you have normal life today, work. This isn' as exciting or heroic as rising in a massive movment that destroyed Soviet grip on the world.

The largest number of people who are most proud of Communist Poland are people who are staunch supporters of the current government and the Fourth Republic Poland. So appears that the people hate the communists but they like what the communists did. It might be said that they like communism.

See my answer above-this isn't what the question in the survey was about. Its quite absurd interpretation. I am sure many Poles are proud of their history in 1939-1945-it doesn't mean they liked nazis.

[Jaksiemasz]

The largest number of people who are most proud of Communist Poland are people who are staunch supporters of the current government and the Fourth Republic Poland. So appears that the people hate the communists but they like what the communists did. It might be said that they like communism.

I won't be mistaken if I say that this tendency is not Poland-specific - it is worldwide. Almost everywhere where Communism was abolished, people feel nostalgic about that.

[droodle]

Well it isn't surprising. That period was quite heroic and part of young life for people-Solidarity,

Yea right. Solidarnosc was started during the young 80's, after which it was violently repressed. It was able to actively do something during a minute period of the third republic.

That being said, I would be most proud of Solidarnosc as well; I guess the question asked and the options should be reconsidered.

About the concentration in the country: it is only logical that freethinkers tend to live in (or immigrate to) cities, since it is easier to communicate with other people with the same ideas without social repression. Communists are conservatives in Poland, and progressives in the US.

[Gletkin]

See my answer above-this isn't what the question in the survey was about. Its quite absurd interpretation. I am sure many Poles are proud of their history in 1939-1945-it doesn't mean they liked nazis.

What was the question then? Your answer interpreted the question as time periods, whereas the article indicates that the questions were what the Polish people felt about the governments themselves.The article seems to state that although they may have hated the United Workers' Party, they still supported the idea of commumnism. That they wanted its reform, not its overthrow. Perhaps they thought that Solidarity would bring about genuine communism (ie workers' control), not the restoration of capitalism. Indeed I understand that Solidarity split after Walesa took power, with the majority opposing him and founding a new social-democratic party.

[Thunderhawk]

From what I could read and understand:


The question is approximately "Which Poland are we proud (of)"


Its pretty open and broad. It isnt about the government - though a poller could interpret it that way if he wants to.
Poland as whole is what (should/) is being judges.

[Gletkin]

Its pretty open and broad. It isnt about the government - though a poller could interpret it that way if he wants to.
Poland as whole is what (should/) is being judges.

Like the article said: they didn't like "the communists" but still wanted communism.
They hated the ruling party, but meanwhile lived in a "communist" society.

I'm pretty sure they meant the governments as well. Notice how they didn't include the years 1939-41.

[Eauz]

Like the article said: they didn't like "the communists" but still wanted communism.

How could it be possible to want something which has never existed?

[Lost Angel]

How could it be possible to want something which has never existed?

very possible - many people want communism, despite that it has never taken place in reality.

[Eauz]

Do you have proof?

[Lost Angel]

Do you have proof?

Do you have facts proving communism existed? I mean on the country level, not a bunch of punks living off welfare.
Unlike for God - this one can be proved, so please, bring in the facts, so we may debate it.

[Gletkin]

How could it be possible to want something which has never existed?

About 15 years ago or so I remember reading an article which quoted graffiti the reporter saw in Warsaw:

"Bring back Communism!"
"We never had communism!"
"Then bring back what we had!"

[Shade2]

Yawn
http://www.cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2004/K_102_04.PDF
POLACY O ZMIANACH PO 1989 ROKU

Poles about changes after year 1989

Raport from 2004

65% of asked said that it was worth it to change the communist system.
21% said it wasn't worth it.

Poles like everyone else are concerned about their economic level which has deteriorated since Yaruzelski's copying of Gorbachev's "perestroika".

Dear Vasili Polish quality of life has improved tremendously since 1989.

[Unperson-S]

Unsurprising.

Less than 2 decades of Capitalism versus 50 odd years of Communism.

It hasnt had the investment it needed quick enough, or in enough quantity for it to fully develop into a economically stable country. Its almost there now, but this is 15 odd years later.

Then theres the fact that most of the population, the working population, at the fall of communism had only known communism - Im sure the same feeling of 'WTF?' would confuse western people in a change to communism.

Life was better under communism for them, however - will it be in the future?

As long as it gets the right investment, which should bring new employment opportunities, and increase its economy, it can become far better than it ever was under Communism.

It has only been a short amount of time since the fall of Communism - and on top of that, it hasnt had enough investment into it, to help its infrastructure to bring its economy back into line.

Its completely unsurprising that most of them feel it was better under Communism - but it now has potential to be far better.

[Shade2]

Its completely unsurprising that most of them feel it was better under Communism

Actually as the polls show most people feel life is better now then under communism.

From the same raport I gave above :
In your opinion, has life improved for the better in the place you live after 1989 ?
For Better-51%
For Worse-27%

[Eauz]

Do you have facts proving communism existed

No, I don't, which is why I'm asking you to show me proof that these people actually wanted something which they apparently experienced, and is gone. If they want communism to return, then it must have meant that communism existed.

About 15 years ago or so I remember reading an article which quoted graffiti the reporter saw in Warsaw:

"Bring back Communism!"
"We never had communism!"
"Then bring back what we had!"

So, what they really should be saying is "Bring back State capitalism".

[Thunderhawk]

As long as it gets the right investment, which should bring new employment opportunities, and increase its economy, it can become far better than it ever was under Communism.

Right investment is a hard thing to get done. Many Polish industries that are profitable are bought up by foriegners with part of the profits going to other countries. Some businesses are also being bought and shut down to aquire patents and remove competition.

[Lost Angel]

No, I don't, which is why I'm asking you to show me proof that these people actually wanted something which they apparently experienced, and is gone. If they want communism to return, then it must have meant that communism existed.

Well, communism didn't exist, socialism - did - it was Soviet Union of Socialist Republics and satellites... Communism was supposed to be aimed for in the bright future... So in fact they're asking for Soviet model socialism. But either way - people's memory works in such a way that painful events are faster forgotten - they're traumatic, while good ones remain for longer, - for this reason past is often seen as something better than it was...

[Unperson-S]

Right investment is a hard thing to get done. Many Polish industries that are profitable are bought up by foriegners with part of the profits going to other countries. Some businesses are also being bought and shut down to aquire patents and remove competition.

Yeah - they cant be sold, else the profit will go outside of the country. And then there might be more employment, but the profits wont be there.

Its a difficult one, but maybe investment could be simply not to bolster business' (directly, which would only result in the profits going elsewhere), but into infrastructure, and industry as a whole, rather than in specific business'.

Its a really difficult one though.

[dannymu]

Hope the fact Poland joined the EU and lost hundreds of thousands of citizens to other EU countries will help them be proud of democracy and capitalism and discredit the communists.