[Sulla123]

Poll finds 44% think life worse in EU
By George Parker in Brussels

Published: March 18 2007 20:14 | Last updated: March 18 2007 20:14

The malaise gripping the European Union as it approaches its 50th birthday this week is highlighted in a new poll which shows that 44 per cent of citizens think life has got worse since their country joined the club.

The poll suggests the bloc’s 27 leaders have their work cut out to revive enthusiasm for Europe’s project of “ever closer union” when they meet for official anniversary celebrations in Berlin next Sunday.


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The FT/Harris poll, conducted in the EU’s five biggest countries and the US, found that only 25 per cent of the Europeans questioned felt life in their country had improved since it joined the EU.

The poll illustrates a pervasive pessimism in Europe, but it also highlights the ambivalence of citizens towards the EU, 50 years after the bloc’s founding Treaty of Rome.

In spite of many complaints about the EU, including a widespread view that it is too bureaucratic, only a minority think their country would be better off if it seceded from the union. Only 22 per cent of respondents in Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Spain thought their country would be better off if it left the EU, against 40 per cent who believed it would be worse off.

Germany, which holds the rotating EU presidency, wants to use the celebrations to recall the bloc’s achievements and to map out tasks, including tackling climate change, peacekeeping and fighting terrorism and organised crime.

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, wants to use a so-called “Berlin declaration” to kick-start a debate on reviving the stalled EU constitutional treaty. Ms Merkel wants to prepare a slimmer version of the treaty, rejected by French and Dutch voters in referendums in 2005, with the aim of having it ratified by 2009.

Britain, the Czech Republic and Poland have been the most resistant to any reference in the declaration to the constitution, but seem resigned to a coded reference to it in the declaration.

Lech Kaczynski, the Polish president, said on Saturday: “We have reservations over some parts of the declaration, but if Poland did not sign it, we would be the only EU country not to do so.”

The FT/Harris poll, conducted between February 28 and March 12, found that 35 per cent of respondents thought the constitution would have a positive impact on their country, compared with 27 per cent who thought the opposite.

By far the most negative response (48 per cent) came from Britain. The treaty would give the EU a president and foreign minister, and lead to simplified voting rules and a reduction of national vetos in areas of judicial co-operation.

US respondents were less enthusiastic than Europeans about the prospect of the EU doing more in fields such as the economy and the environment.

Source...http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3ecee064-d578-11db-a5c6-000b5df10621.html

[euglena]

i'd subscribe to that.

i don't like how every German city is becoming the same, with all the big businesses taking over and undermining the local ones.

the bakeries for example - andres you'll back me up here - there's so many le crobags in Germany it's horrible. and H&M's everywhere.

what happened to charms of cities with their own stores

soon every city will look exactly the same, and you can go anywhere and know what kind of sandwhich you want for lunch

/conservative.

[Andres]

i don't like how every German city is becoming the same, with all the big businesses taking over and undermining the local ones.

the bakeries for example - andres you'll back me up here - there's so many le crobags in Germany it's horrible. and H&M's everywhere.

I actually did not look at those big department stores with much disdain, since I saw them as a great show of purchasing power. I come from a town in Mexico with almost 1 million inhabitants, which seem to have less purchasing power than a small town of 70 or 100 thousand inhabitants here in Germany. I agree that almost no matter to which town you travel (at least in southern germany where I have traveled the most), you will see practically the same stores, but I saw it as benefitial to the locals, they dont have to travel to the 'big' city to go shopping.

[Sulla123]

That same problems is happening in the US also. But its not really a problem. People decide what they want. As in the US where some cities have said no to walmart or made walmart make smaller stores that matched the area more. The thing is if most people did not like the chain stores as they say they would still be shopping at the small stores and they would still be in business.

Its the same for book stores. I have always liked little mom and pop book stores. But the interent has killed them. And I am to blaim as I order most books I buy from amazon or ebay. And the ones I do buy at books stores normaly I buy at a chain used book store. So myself and the rest of the people have decided on how the book stores have to be run. Now people that deal in used books sale them online thru amazon, alibris, ebay etc. And as much as I liked small book stores this is not a bad thing. Now I can find any book I want without much trouble. I can read reviews and even look at parts of the book. And prices have come down becouse we can see how many book are really on the market. Its how a free market should work.

[Eauz]

Now people that deal in used books sale them online thru amazon, alibris, ebay etc. And as much as I liked small book stores this is not a bad thing. Now I can find any book I want without much trouble. I can read reviews and even look at parts of the book. And prices have come down becouse we can see how many book are really on the market. Its how a free market should work.

Quite the simplification of the free market. What you omit, are two major factories affecting the free market.

1. the degree of mechanization
2. the market power of the different branches.

[SimpleRules]

But the people decide, in England, where I live, we use both mom and pop shops and the internet - I can buy a book I know I want from Amazon, but if I'm looking for a book but don't know ... the mom and pop shop can help me personally, I can explain what I like and they'll get books, suggest them, show them to me.

It depends on service, same applies to walmarts, you might not beat them on price ... but you can always beat them on your personal service and assistance.

People in the big computer stores and TV stores, have no idea what they're selling ... you might be able to get it for 5% less than you can at the mom and pop shop but will you trust them to sell you the right thing?

[Maas]

yeah well... in the end the average person wants a formilliar store where the stuff is cheap or a certain quality stuff for a relatifly good price.

Like even the colours of McDonnald were carefully picked to suit the concept. Other stores got their own secret formullas that work. You are totally wrong that people like to see all kinds of different shops. Those just aren't as sucsesfull as the multinational stores.

I wished the human psyche worked different. Too bad though

[Lokakyy]

and H&M's everywhere.

That is called global capitalism, it has very little to do with European Union.

---

They are probably wrong since they fail to fathom the significance of the European economical integration, the freedom of movement and the lack of protectionism between the countries. Surely not everything connected to European Union is good, but any poll of this kind will be hopelessly anachronistic unless you speak of countries that have spent only a handful years in the European Union.

Honestly speaking, it is very hard to tell the difference between the existing EU-Finland and fictitious non-EU-Finland.

As for the Poles and the Czechs, if you ask me, their complaints are rather moot considering the amount of money funneled there. You're free to get the fuck out of the union if you want. But do you?

[Kapanda]

I don't understand why people love to cling to past customs, often to proven to be not as efficient economically.

[ZeusIrae]

Then human behaviour is often mysterious of you.

People don't act rationnally.That's how it is.If they did we would probably still lives in caves.

[Decky]

The reasonable man adapts to suit the world, the unreasonable man adapts the world to suit himself, therefore all progress depends on the unresonable man.

[Shade2]

As for the Poles and the Czechs, if you ask me, their complaints are rather moot considering the amount of money funneled there.

What amount of money. As far as I recall we get some credits to buy services of foreign firms.So for example Germans or Spaniards profit from this often.

. You're free to get the fuck out of the union if you want. But do you?

Oh no, we will just to change it to suit us. You know there is no such thing as second class membership ?

[Andres]

What amount of money. Eh? As far as I recall we get some credits to buy services of foreign firms.

Even if the companies providing the services are in other countries (and you cant claim that all the money goes to buy services in foreign countries), Poland is still getting those services 'for free'. That Poland uses some of the money to buy services in Germany, does not mean that Poland did not get a subsidy. Apparently, Poland has received about 12 billion dollars from the EU so far, but has had some problems spending it (source).

As for benefits of EU membership to Poland, I think the most important would be larger amounts of direct foreign investment from other EU countries.

[Shade2]

Apparently, Poland has received about 12 billion dollars from the EU so far

Germany inflicted on us 600 billion dollars of damages when it devestated our country in WW2.
Getting 12billion dollars credity to buy services of German firms is hardly something generous considering that situation.
Not to mention we have to spend billions on idiotic enviroment regulations, and our development is blocked by EU comission. Recentely they stoped us from building a strategic highway to Lithuania.

[Andres]

Germany inflicted on us 600 billion dollars of damages when it devestated our country in WW2.
Getting 12billion dollars credity to buy services of German firms is hardly something generous considering that situation.

Nazi Germany inflicted damage on Poland. Getting 12 billion dollars, and not only in credit to buy services from German firms, is generous however much you decry the past.

Not to mention we have to spend billions on idiotic enviroment regulations, and our development is blocked by EU comission. Recentely they stoped us from building a strategic highway to Lithuania.

Nobody forced Poland to include the Rospuda valley in the Natura 2000 list, blame your government for the highway.
As for development, do you deny the large increase in foreign direct investment as a result of Poland's acceptance to the EU?

[Shade2]

Nazi Germany inflicted damage on Poland.

Yes Germany inflicted damage on Poland, if it wants to claim being generous why doesn't it pay for destruction it made ?
Not to mention a "minor" issue like the fact it not only never porsecuted officers responsible for murder of ten of thousands of Poles, but they were respected members of society and politicians for example Heinz Reinefarth.

Getting 12 billion dollars, and not only in credit to buy services from German firms, is generous however much you decry the past.

Its laughable considering the amount of damage Germany did on Poland.And we pay more then we get to make stupid regulations.Not to mention we won't see most of that money anyway.
Geee pretty generous-Germany murders circa 6 milion Poles, completely destroys our country, then makes people responsible respected politicans post-war, and throws some credits to buy services of German firms. Under the condition that we pay billions of euro for stupid regulations.

Nobody forced Poland to include the Rospuda valley in the Natura 2000 list, blame your government for the highway.

The preperations for construction started before EU accession.EU blocked it.

s for development, do you deny the large increase in foreign direct investment

Internal development was blocked due to firms having to spend money on useless regulations and procedures.
It can be argued Polish growth would be much higher if business wouldn't lose billions of euro on useless projects and money, roads wouldn't be blocked from building by EU and fiscal policy wouldn't be blocked by EU regulations.

[soron]

It can be argued Polish growth would be much higher if business wouldn't lose billions of euro on useless projects and money, roads wouldn't be blocked from building by EU and fiscal policy wouldn't be blocked by EU regulations.

The EU is blocking you from building roads ? How so ?

If Poland wouldn't have joined the EU (nobody made you join, remember ?) your goods would have to cross a border which would add another layer of tariffs, expense and bureaucracy on top of everything. The reason companies like Volkswagen or Porsche are moving their factories to e.g. Bratislava is for a good part because it's within the EU.
In our region, Romania was considered a hot prospect for some time (before they joined the EU) but more than 1 company I know pulled out again because dirt cheap labour wasn't worth all the additional hassle.
I dare say all those companies who are complaining loudly about the EU would shut up in a hurry if the EU would re-introduce how things were run before the EU for just 1 week: having to go to your district's custom's office which might be as far as 50 km away, wait in line until your forms are processed, keep track of your export papers so your tax forms are filled out properly when you try to get reimbursed for goods you've exported. That used to be a part of a former job of mine and I really don't miss all the paperwork you had to go through just in order to get a packet of steel t-nuts from Germany to France.

[Andres]

Yes Germany inflicted damage on Poland

Nazi Germany inflicted damage on Poland. I even put the important distinction in bold.

Not to mention a "minor" issue like the fact it not only never porsecuted officers responsible for murder of ten of thousands of Poles,

Well, go complain to Truman's government since they were pretty much in charge during prosecutions.

And we pay more then we get to make stupid regulations.Not to mention we won't see most of that money anyway.

This only reflects badly on the poles, since they knew well in advance what entry into the EU entailed.

The preperations for construction started before EU accession.EU blocked it.

Putting the area in the Natura 2000 list was voluntary. You have no one but your own government to blame.

Internal development was blocked due to firms having to spend money on useless regulations and procedures.

I know that is your opinion, but have you any evidence that this offsets considerably the economic benefit of joining the EU? Industrial output growth today is a little over 17% year on year, in 2003, close to EU entrance, it was close to 12%, and in 2002 it was closer to 2%. It hardly seems as if entry (or the promise of entry) into the EU has been detrimental to Poland's economy.

[Shade2]

Nazi Germany inflicted damage on Poland. I even put the important distinction in bold.

And ? Do we speak about Republican USA ? Labour Britain ? CDU Germany ? A state remains a state, Nazis weren't invaders from Planet Nazixon that took over Germany through mind control...

You have no one but your own government to blame.

Why ? The government made safe and enviromently friendly way to make the highway go through. EU blocked it.

Well, go complain to Truman's government since they were pretty much in charge during prosecutions

Thanks but the requests for trial were turned down by Germany itself. And not to mention two amnesty laws for Nazi criminals were made by German government also.

This only reflects badly on the poles,

Thank you for showing your traditional German respect for their eastern neighbour by writing Poles without capital letter and claiming it is their fault Germany devestated their country and never felt it needs to correct the wrongdoing.

was close to 12%, and in 2002 it was closer to 2%.

In 1997 it was 11, 2% so your theory is rather in the thrash bin.

[Andres]

And ? Do we speak about Republican USA ? Labour Britain ? CDU Germany ? A state remains a state, Nazis weren't invaders from Planet Nazixon that took over Germany through mind control...

But we do refer to France's third republic, or Weimar's republic. We make the distinction when there has been a change of state.

Why?

Because your government voluntarily included the region in a list of environmentally protected regions.

Thanks but the requests for trial were turned down by Germany itself.

How could a trial be turned down by an entity with no sovereignty? Again, go complain to your idols.

Thank you for showing your traditional German respect for their eastern neighbour by writing Poles without capital letter and claiming it is their fault Germany devestated their country and never felt it needs to correct the wrongdoing.

This part is just so irrational, it astounds me. First, I show very little traditional german traits of any type, being that I am not german. Second, I show no respect or disrespect towards poles by writing it without capital letters, rather it is due to my laziness that I rarely capitalize nationalities, even my own, browse my post history for confirmation. Third, I did not claim that it was Poland's fault for the 1939 invasion. And finally, neither did I claim that germans had no need to correct the wrongdoings of their ancestors.

In 1997 it was 11, 2% so your theory is rather in the thrash bin.

And this year? upwards of 17%. Not so far in the trash. I notice that you also failed completely to even address the subject of backing up your claim.