[Verv]

This is interesting:

Poland breaks EU taboo and mentions the war
By George Jones
Last Updated: 2:38am BST 22/06/2007



Germany's role in the Second World War returned to disturb the harmony of the summit yesterday when Poland vowed to seek recognition of its five million dead.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the Polish prime minister, complained that Poland would have a far bigger population on which to base its EU voting power if it had not been for the Nazi invasion in September 1939 which started the war.

This seems like a very improfessional and petty complaint. The WWII issue needs to be resolved and not be brought into, well, basically everything.

Complaining about such historic events so long after they happened is kind of unflattering.

What do you expect the Germans to do? Give up 5 million of their first born to the Poles?

But as they say:

"We are only demanding that we get back what was taken from us," he told Polish national radio.

"If Poland had not had to live through the years of 1939-45, Poland would be today looking at the demographics of a country of 66 million."

The Telegraph

Pretty ridiculous demand that you somehow be compensated for an event so long ago that ahs already been resolved.

What a political mess.

[Lokakyy]

This seems like a very improfessional and petty complaint.

I agree — thus it fits very well to the current Polish leadership which is both unprofessional and petty as demonstrated by earlier actions. One can only hope that the Poles opt out for a moderate government next time, because this one has gotten a lot of bad publicity for the country.

The historical trauma of Poland is understandable, but these kind of demands are not even meaningful.

[Thunderhawk]

The WWII issue needs to be resolved and not be brought into, well, basically everything.

How else will it get attention to get some resolution?

Complaining about such historic events so long after they happened is kind of unflattering.

I agree. There are only a couple million people left alive in Poland who were dirrectly affected by German actions in the war, and only a 10 or so million indirrectly affected. When they all die, we can all forget the past in a blaze of techno and laser light shows.

Its the same problem the Koreans and Chinese had, they too should have forgotten about Japanese actions during the WW2 era.

What do you expect the Germans to do? Give up 5 million of their first born to the Poles?

Why not kill 5 million Germans starting with the intelligencia and adjusting for population growth?
Then Germany can join the "we are victims" club, and no longer have to bother with reperation speak with Poland, Israel or any other nation/people/etc wanting money.

Pretty ridiculous demand that you somehow be compensated for an event

Absolutely! Might makes right.

that ahs already been resolved.

Indeed. Poland should look for money from the Soviet Union successor state, it was they that took the compensation on behalf of Poland.

[Far-Right Sage]

The Poles are the Poles. They will continue to bitch and moan, the rest of the Europeans will feel sorry for them, and Germanophobia will continue to run rampant without compromise through Poland, because of the actions of Hitler and a few SS thugs during the Second World War. If the Polish government could carve Germany up and divide the land amongst its own, make no mistake - It would.

[Zel]

How else will it get attention to get some resolution?

Its nice to see that you have actually no idea what you are talking about. The German-Polish relationship already were past that point until the current government came into power.

Its the same problem the Koreans and Chinese had, they too should have forgotten about Japanese actions during the WW2 era.

No its not, Germany in its relationship to Poland has not tried to cover up crimes and put forward a series of actions of good will to reconcile with its neighbour. Apart from that it was Germany that was the greatest champion to help Poland to gain EU membership in the first place.

What the Polish government does here is open old wounds and calling on prejudice in a small part of the Polish population to foster internal support for their policies. 60% of Poles oppose this stance in latest polls and dont want their government to block the compromise treaty. But look at what is happening in Poland itself, the current government tries to discredit the past 19 years of democratic development and gets more and more paranoid about dissenting voices. Even people who were thought close to them lost their jobs in the media when they refused to throw journalistic principles over board. Its not just some Teletubbies that are lying dead in the path of this government, and one only can hope that the future of European integration wont be the next victim as the current situation seriously endangers the whole continent.

[Einherjar]

No need to interpret this too literally. This is merely a witty way to combat European voting power based on population numbers, and as an average population nation, it is in its interests to do so. That Germany has currently more voting power than Poland owes much to a historical war conducted by an "evil monstrous anti-democratic regime". Democracy, with all the universality and non-historicity it is associated with, is after all a historical reality. This can be quite thought-provoking unless interpreted by the usual austere, dull and anti-promethean bourgeois character that is more concerned with highly ephemeral notions like "professionalism" than it is about any other significant else.

[soron]

It's still BS. If we use hypothetical numbers for Poland it would only be fair to use hypothetical numbers for everybody else too. Which means in the end Poland would gain nothing.
It's just diplomatic German-bashing.

[alyster]

Poland has been bit unpopular due to their oposition to the EU's constitution. Moreover the ones trying to work on it currently are Germans. It's probably just another adempt to take heat off from Poland in this case, cause Poland has been quite unpopular.

Another case of, "ops, we may be shown in bad light in this case, lets just blame it all on nazis and Germans".

[Zel]

Poland has been bit unpopular due to their oposition to the EU's constitution. Moreover the ones trying to work on it currently are Germans. It's probably just another adempt to take heat off from Poland in this case, cause Poland has been quite unpopular.

Another case of, "ops, we may be shown in bad light in this case, lets just blame it all on nazis and Germans".

Dont you think that it may be the case that "Poland" (like I pointed out its mainly the current government), is unpopular and a bit isolated because of exactly this kind of rethoric and general approach? Its not like its limited to the foreign level the Polish government is very controversial in Poland itself too.

[alyster]

Your probably right Zel. I just guessed it, because Poland also comes from the old "communist" world, where blaming everything on nazis was an easy escape.

[kami321]

How many people did Germany lose as a result of WW2, someone remind me please?
I bet they lost way more than Poland.

[Potemkin]

Good point. Maybe Germany should claim compensation from themselves?

[Conspectator]

Several millions of that population Poland "lost" as a result of WWII simply found themselved within the USSR borders as borders were moved in 1944/46 - not at all killed by Germans.

[Far-Right Sage]

It's still BS. If we use hypothetical numbers for Poland it would only be fair to use hypothetical numbers for everybody else too. Which means in the end Poland would gain nothing.
It's just diplomatic German-bashing.

Exactly. The Polish government's arrogance on this issue could set a dangerous precedent. What's to stop Russia from from bringing up their some 23 million citizens killed during World War II whenever they have a diplomatic tiff with the German government?

[waldemar]

Several millions of that population Poland "lost" as a result of WWII simply found themselved within the USSR borders as borders were moved in 1944/46 - not at all killed by Germans.

I'm courious what the source of this piece of information is. For me this statement is plain stupid. FYI 6 mil people of Polish citizenship died during WWII.
On the other hand I am fully aware that Polish government can only blame themselves for statements like the one above coming up. I also hate the way Poland does foreign politics in recent times, and the way they "build" relationships with their neighbors.

Let me give you some insider's view. The reason for the things going so wrong in Poland is mainly catholic church which sees EU as a real threat. Now the church has huge influence on every acpect of life in Poland, like politics, trade, media, etc. They're scared of western-european lifestyle that would left them without such influence. So it's the church who tries to make people hate other Euro countries, like Germany for WWII, Russia for communism, Holland for euthanasia, France for god knows what, etc.
Current government is very closely together with catholic church and this explains a lot.
People in Poland are always facing extremely difficult choices when voting, as they have to select between either corrupted as hell but more open-minded party or ultracatholic, maybe less corrupted but obviously anti-european bunch of "politicians"

[thorres]

Polish should remember they challenged German... Frontiers incident caused by Polish were a fact not Nari propaganda. They really thought they could face German
I am far from be a Hitler's admirer but if they have such demands they should be reminded of how they acted at that time.
maybe they could beg to Bush for money being such US supporters as they are

[Far-Right Sage]

Polish should remember they challenged German... Frontiers incident caused by Polish were a fact not Nari propaganda. They really thought they could face German

I'm not the biggest fan of the current situation concerning Polish politics, but your assertion simply isn't true.

The Nazi leadership did execute a false flag attack on the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz in Upper Silesia, in order to demonstrate faux Polish aggression.

[Maas]

The Nazi leadership did execute a false flag attack on the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz in Upper Silesia, in order to demonstrate faux Polish aggression.

it was even much worse than that.
Nazi Germany and Russia agreed on this in the Molotov-Von Ribbentrop pact.

[Thunderhawk]

thorres might be referring to something in Silesia or the G'dunsk (G'dansk for Poles, Danzig for Germans) region, as there were numerous cases of both governments over stepping, but nothing close to the portrayed radio station seizure.

[kami321]

Poland would have not dared openly provoke Germany with unilateral military actions at any time.
However it is still partly Polish fault that they got invaded - in 1937 or 1938 Germany was proposing alliance to Poland against USSR, the Poles refused. A year later they were invaded. Their fault.