[SpecialOlympian]

Essence of Liberalism

Notes of: Pine, freshly minted bills, astroglide, spotted owl, Purple Grape Ape hash, new Prius smell, and hope.

[Philby]

I shall not use them because they are contradictory.....bla bla bla

Please make your own dictionary and share it, maybe other people will understand you then.

[DanDaMan]

I look at government scientifically and without DOGMA in this instance.
Is Obama one of the most LIBERAL presidents we have had and has government doubled in size under him?
Yes.
That is all the PHYSICAL proof I need.
If you think otherwise you are following dogma and ignoring reality.

[Krivich]

Yes, Obama is one of the most LIBERAL presidents. But he does the dirty work which is not liberal. This is because the crisis and need direct action to restore the system. But the liberal system cause of this crisis. And why should restore the system, I no know. Why do I need an engine that periodically explodes?

[Genghis Khan]

But the liberal system cause of this crisis.

Huh... no.

[DanDaMan]

Krivich wrote:
But the liberal system cause of this crisis.

Huh... no.

Sure it is.
Barney Frank and other Liberals and progressives twisted the arms of the banks to give out bad loans.
The banks did so as long as the government obligingly let the banks create trading instruments so the banks could unload the crap onto others.
(No smart bank wanted these loans)

Had the government done nothing and forced the banks to hold the loans they created liked they are supposed to do to protect us... there would have never been a bubble.

[Krivich]

...there would have never been a bubble.

Are you against the groundless growth of the financial sector and financial speculation?

[Julian]

Krivich

in answer to your OP

there always have been limits to wealth but we can as a society push the limits by technological and social innovations and by the implementation of those innovations throughout the economy

the wealth of one person is not necessarily at the cost of another person - because through work individual people can add to the overall amount of human wealth

liberals believe that people should be able to enter freely into association with others (or contract with each other) to produce goods and services

but many liberals also believe that an unregulated economy leads to a unfair distribution of wealth, as over, time for various reasons wealth accumulates with the rich and they obtain a advantage over others. those liberals would advocate some form of redistribution of wealth to mantain a fair society

j

[Krivich]

Free market and redistribution of wealth. Right and left. My brain is broken.
Julian, I can agree with many words that you said. But redistribution of wealth and to limit to wealth is things contradicting to liberalism in a classical sense. I have understood now that policy of the socialist orientation is called in North America as "liberal". This is very natural. Because it would be no rightly to attribute to socialist transformation normal conditions of life of ordinary Americans. It is not acceptable for the ruling class.
Americans have fought against socialism in the cold war but many of their advantages are specific to socialism. How can it be concealed? You can call it liberalism, and all is well.

[DanDaMan]

Quote:
...there would have never been a bubble.

Are you against the groundless growth of the financial sector and financial speculation?

Yes. You have to stay within the LAW.
Had the government stayed away from twisting the banks arms to make these crap loans... the government would have never facilitated and endorsed the banks selling off the mortgages.

You see, IMO, the government forced this situation because the banks knew the mortgages were too risky to keep.
But how can you tell that to Barney Frank?

[Krivich]

Mortgages, mortgages. And what about the dollar. Great mass of paper money not backed by anything. Is it not a bubble?

[JohnRawls]

DanDaMan was Obama the main reason behind the Great Depression and the 2nd World War ?

[DanDaMan]

DanDaMan was Obama the main reason behind the Great Depression and the 2nd World War ?

I do not know much of that history. (I do think I know where you are going with your question)...

What I do know is that everything has cycles and certain things recover FASTER when natural processes take over.

I put it to you that free market capitalism is the best method for recovery versus that of a politicians/government, who know little about what works in the real world, trying to recover us.
Remember... the goal of a politician is to do what gets him re-elected by his base.
The goal of the capitalist is to earn more money so he can spend it and get all the hot babes.
That is REAL stimulation.

[Krivich]

No JohnRawls. It was Franklin Delano Roosevelt

[DanDaMan]

Mortgages, mortgages. And what about the dollar. Great mass of paper money not backed by anything. Is it not a bubble?

Yes it is.
It's the government doing the same thing. Screwing it all up to protect special interests.

[Krivich]

I do not know much of that history. (I do think I know where you are going with your question)...

What I do know is that everything has cycles and certain things recover FASTER when natural processes take over.

I put it to you that free market capitalism is the best method for recovery versus that of a politicians/government, who know little about what works in the real, trying to recover us.
Remember... the goal of a politician is to do what gets him re-elected by his base.
The goal of the capitalist is to earn more money so he can spend it and get all the hot babes.
That is REAL stimulation.

Did Roosevelt not know what he was doing?
By the way the capitalist can buy all my and your hot babes...

Yes it is.
It's the government doing the same thing. Screwing it all up to protect special interests.

But Fed is not the government.

[DanDaMan]

Did Roosevelt not know what he was doing?

Roosevelts policies kept the depression going all the way up to the war. The war ended the depression.

But Fed is not the government.

Who appoints the chairman of the fed and removes the chairman if he does not like the chairman's direction?

[Krivich]

Roosevelts policies kept the depression going all the way up to the war. The war ended the depression.

No.

Who appoints the chairman of the fed and removes the chairman if he does not like the chairman's direction?

The president does it. But this does not play any role. Fed administers by the US government, the USArmy and other world.

[DanDaMan]

Who appoints the chairman of the fed and removes the chairman if he does not like the chairman's direction?

The president does it. But this does not play any role.

You are naive.

[Rei Murasame]

http://csis.org/files/media/csis/events ... an_koo.pdf

Exhibit 10 in this PDF is particularly interesting. (It's both right and wrong at the same time, depending on how you look at it)