[Political Interest]

Is it true that these countries, Argentina and Uruguay have a population who are majority European? I have heard that most have ancestors from Italy and Spain but that many others have ancestors from other European countries as well. Is it true?

[Smertios]

Every country in Latin America except Guatemala, Peru and Bolivia has a majority of their population descended from European settlers, basically. Uruguayans have a very small (but existent) Amerindian component. Argentinians don't. Most researches show that Argentinians would have enough native ancestry to apply for the blood quotas of US tribes, if they descended from them instead of South American indians.

[Social_Critic]

Argentina is whiter because they had a very explicit genocide policy and they shipped all their blacks to Brazil. But they sure seem like they are just as daffy as the rest of us, their economy is a shambles.

[Smertios]

Argentina is whiter because they had a very explicit genocide policy and they shipped all their blacks to Brazil. But they sure seem like they are just as daffy as the rest of us, their economy is a shambles.

You have any sources for that? Or is it based on your personal experience in 19th century Argentina, like everything else?

There is absolutely no evidence of Afro-Argentines being sent to Brazil at all. Afro-Argentines themselves were never many. African slaves were not brought in large numbers to the Spanish Empire, with the except of the Caribbean colonies. Elsewhere, they preferred to adapt the Incan mita system of serfdom instead.

[Social_Critic]

There were no Indians left to be used as serfs after the Argentinians killed them. So they did have slaves. And they got shipped to Brazil. I heard the story from friends who told me its their dirty little secret. So you got to piece the puzzle together.

. The 1778 census showed that 7,236 of 24,363 Buenos Aires residents, or 30 percent, were African. That figure dropped to 2 percent by 1887 -- the final year blacks were included as a separate category. Some rights activists say the government eliminated a black category to promote an image of homogeneity. In its place, census takers introduced euphemistic race classifications.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Blac ... z2GCF80isn

Wikipedia says

. Among the reasons expressed are:
Heavy casualties caused by constant civil wars and foreign wars: Blacks formed a disproportionate part of the Argentine army in the long and bloody War of Paraguay (1865–1870), in which the loss of lives on both sides were high. The official historiography maintains that this resulted in the disappearance of the black population, while the genocide claims contend that the disproportionate recruitment was intentional.[7]
Epidemics, especially of yellow fever in 1871: the traditional history holds that the epidemics had greater impact in areas where the poorest people lived, whereas the vision that sustains the existence of a genocide underlines the repressive mechanisms that enabled upper-class groups to leave the affected areas at the same time, forcing Afro-Argentines to stay locked-up thus aggravating health conditions.
Emigration (meaning movement of a population out of one country to another, as opposed to immigration: movement of people into a country from another). Large numbers of Afro-Argentines emigrated particularly to Uruguay and Brazil, where black populations had historically been larger and had a more favorable political climate;

This is under their Afro Argentine article. My friends, a group of fairly educated and diverse Argentines, told me they felt the blacks had been forced to go to Brazil, rather than genocided. I'm not about to argue this subject much, frankly I don't think it's that important.

[Smertios]

There were no Indians left to be used as serfs after the Argentinians killed them. So they did have slaves. And they got shipped to Brazil. I heard the story from friends who told me its their dirty little secret. So you got to piece the puzzle together.

Wrong again. Argentinian indians were assimilated into the population just like it happened in every other Hispano-American state. Today, indigenous Argentinians represent 1.6% of the entire population. Indigenous Colombians represent 2% of the Colombian population. Most pre-Columbian tribes were assimilated in both countries. Now, virtually all Argentinians descend directly from native peoples, just like it happens in Colombia.

Most natives were replaced, assimilated or killed during the Conquest of the Desert and the expansion into the Northwest Chaco. But most Argentinians still descend from native peoples...

This is under their Afro Argentine article. My friends, a group of fairly educated and diverse Argentines, told me they felt the blacks had been forced to go to Brazil, rather than genocided. I'm not about to argue this subject much, frankly I don't think it's that important.

That portion of the article doesn't mention sources. It was virtually impossible for free blacks to enter Brazil thanks to the mentality at the time, so I don't really think it is accurate at all.

Fairly educated Argentinians or not, your friends are probably just stating some myths as if they were true. While many conspiracy theories exist, the truth is that the Afro-Argentine population was never broad. The main proof of that is the fact that, while most Argentinians (over 70% or even 80% according to some researches) have Amerindian ancestry, less than 5% have any African ancestry at all.

[Social_Critic]

That's really really funny. I suppose you do realize most Argentinians who read this will realize you are from Uruguay or brazil and don't like the idea that you imported all their blacks. One could surmise from the data that Argentinians do have some mitochondrial DNA mixture which tells us European men would have offspring with Amerindian women. The Y data shows Argentinian male haplogroups are mostly European.

However this brings us back to the great puzzle..what happened to the Africans? There's almost no African ancestry and there is evidence they did exist. Either they were killed or they emigrated.

[Smertios]

Argentinians are known to be 4% African-descended. So that's where the Africans went. There were never many Africans there. And most of the ones that existed were absorbed into the overall population, with their genes going to the national gene poll.

And also, i's not a matter of me liking or not liking the idea. It's a matter that there is absolutely no evidence of it. It's a conspiracy theory.

[Social_Critic]

Huh your link has a footnote to an un reachable article. Therefore I'd like to know if you have a different source.

[Smertios]

Huh your link has a footnote to an un reachable article. Therefore I'd like to know if you have a different source.

What? It is a fully reachable PDF. I always check Wikipedia sources before posting stuff here. Here is the direct link:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2009.00556.x/asset/j.1469-1809.2009.00556.x.pdf;jsessionid=0B7B3E278CA09C5F3B532872B616C690.d04t04?v=1&t=hbntfq1p&s=0e3c3f7e3e528a00bafac2764a5a4853b588b85f

Pay attention to table 1 at page 70.

Region — N — Native S-American — European — W Ss-African
Total: — 246 17.28 (17.84) — 78.57 (18.24) — 4.15 (4.17)

[Sithsaber]

I think he's trying to say that anything that is supported by scientific and historical documentation connected to the World's major international system is inevitably evil and false. Only vague stories heard from this one guy can be undoubtedly viewed as truth.

[Social_Critic]

Smertios, maybe this link is to a site you pay for. Are you an university professor? You are linking Wiley. I get Wiley when I'm at work, using my consultancy computer. I can't use it for personal "work". I use a tablet. This is one reason why I hate putting up links I got to use my finger to tap shit on the screen and my fingers are rather useless. I think I need one of those pens. But if you say so ill take your word for it. 4 % of Argentinians are Afros.

Sith my stories are not vague. I do try not to give information to avoid getting family and friends in trouble. They live in nasty places.