Brazil: Bread and Circuses - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Rio
#14150792
Well, since Lula was elected for president in 2002, Brazil has been ruled by the Bread and Circuses politic.This politic consists to give food and entreteriment to the people, to they "don't" worry about the corruption. I'll explain the brazillian case:

The Bread:
In Rome, the goverment gave food, here they give money.
When Lula was elected, the first thing that he did was give money to the poor, every month they receive money. Yes, I'm paying it. As the poor are the majority, they suppor him, he was reelected and on the next election, Dilma (from the same party) was elected. I think that this party will rule for long time. Little opposition. Last year to worsen, they started to apply the quotas system. Guess who is benefited, yes the poor.
Here's a link to what I'm saying:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18066520


The Circuse:
In Rome, the goverment gave entreteriment, gladiators, circus, theater. Here they give football (soccer).
This politc has been adopted since our military dictatorship. On TV every day, all the time, football,football,football,football. Half of the newspaper, TV newscast and news websites is about football. Look that sh*t, our mayor tried to demolish A INDIGENOUS MUSEUM, YES, A MUSEUM to build a parking for Maracanã Stadium. Luckily people occupied the museum and after a long time of tension, the government gave up. Here's a link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-21001052

Sorry for bad english :/
#14150882
Rio, your English is fine. If you wish I can mention it if I read something I think needs improvement. I don't think it's that unusual for governments to seek support via handouts. This is called clientelism I believe. They create clients and keep them dependent on state aid. And they make sure those who get it are informed very well and understand their "gifts" come from X individual or party.

In Venezuela, for example, the health system is a disaster. But the government doesn't really put money into it to fix it. Instead they invent ways for people to get cash, electric appliances, and lately they do public housing which of course will become huge nests of criminals in the future.
#14150906
Yes, Rio, I agree with you.
However, you are kind of wrong about the Museum. It's a historical building built in 1865, but it's ruined, abandoned and completely destroyed now.
Its main function is to serve as shelter for homeless people, drug dealers and rats.
And no, the Government hasn't given up yet. That building is going down.

Image
User avatar
By Rio
#14151018
Yes, i think it's clientelism too. And this think of thing have been used sine we were a colony. I belive that just ill end with a great concientization work since child, but it must cane from goverment and they will not do it.
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By Rio
#14151361
Social_Critic wrote:they do public housing which of course will become huge nests of criminals in the future.


I'll tell you what happened here when the goverment put poor people on the same place, favela, crime and drug.
#14152004
Rio wrote:Well, since Lula was elected for president in 2002, Brazil has been ruled by the Bread and Circuses politic.This politic consists to give food and entreteriment to the people, to they "don't" worry about the corruption.


Oh, it started way before Lula. The basic idea of investing in entertainment to keep the population under control has been around for ages. It's just been intensified recently. But yeah, this idea has been used by pretty much every Brazilian government since the fall of the first republic. Actually, it already happened way before that. It just got worse with radio and television. And now the internet as well, of course.

Populism has been a strong force in Brazil since the Vargas Era. And Panis et Circensis is almost a synonym for populism, so yeah, you are pretty much correct.

When Lula was elected, the first thing that he did was give money to the poor, every month they receive money. Yes, I'm paying it. As the poor are the majority, they suppor him, he was reelected and on the next election, Dilma (from the same party) was elected. I think that this party will rule for long time. Little opposition. Last year to worsen, they started to apply the quotas system. Guess who is benefited, yes the poor.


It goes beyond Lula. All those social programs started with the FHC administration, basically. And giving money isn't really the problem, since we have a surplus. The problem is how the money is given.

The whole program is there just to mask the real issues in the system. Instead of actually investing in public education and healthcare, in order to improve the quality of public schools and hospitals, they give free money to the poorer family, as if it would make any difference.

I think Alaska has a much better system in place. Since 1976, they have the Alaska Permanent Fund, which administers money acquired from oil royalties. The money is equally divided between all adult citizens. It's a much better system, really. That money simply exists. There is no need to raise taxes for it to come. And everyone has access to their fair share, without the government distributing it.

In Brazil, where the discussion about the division of the the recent oil deposits is quite polemic, I think that's the best system to be adopted. And it's not just oil. There are lots of ore royalties in the mining industry as well. Also in the forestry industry. We could have the money acquired from all those deposits divided equally amongst the local population, instead of going into politicians' pockets.

The only politician who is campaigning to create something similar to the Alaskan fund is Senator Eduardo Suplicy, though. So I'm not really enthusiastic about it.

This politc has been adopted since our military dictatorship. On TV every day, all the time, football,football,football,football. Half of the newspaper, TV newscast and news websites is about football.


Since before the military regime, actually. Populism started with radio, not television. There is a reason why Vargas managed to get his populist speech reach the entire country. Radio appeared here in the late 1920s and early 1930s. With all radionovelas, football match transmissions etc. TV just made it all worse.

But now, in a time when the internet is the main means of telecommunication, things are slowly changing. Access to information has become easy. People started taking active roles. They don't need to read the papers, listen to the radio and watch TV anymore. They can access everything in the web. And they can be active actors as well. There are blogs, twitter, Youtube etc. The age of populism in Brazil has finally come to an end. :D

Sorry for bad english :/


Your English is good enough, don't worry. :)

Look that sh*t, our mayor tried to demolish A INDIGENOUS MUSEUM, YES, A MUSEUM to build a parking for Maracanã Stadium. Luckily people occupied the museum and after a long time of tension, the government gave up.


    Soulflytribe wrote:Yes, Rio, I agree with you.
    However, you are kind of wrong about the Museum. It's a historical building built in 1865, but it's ruined, abandoned and completely destroyed now.
    Its main function is to serve as shelter for homeless people, drug dealers and rats.
    And no, the Government hasn't given up yet. That building is going down.

    Image

It's a historical building that belonged to the Prince Ludwig August of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, husband of Princess Leopoldina, who was the daughter of Emperor Pedro II. As an admirer of indigenous cultures, he signed a contract passing the land to the Brazilian government ad eternum if and only if it was to be used in that benefit of indigenous peoples. If that agreement is broken, ownership goes back to the descendants of Princess Leopoldina.

I certainly hope the building will not be destroyed. There was a time when our governments actually cared about preserving historical buildings. They should be restoring it and turning it into a museum, not threatening demolition.

This is actually the issue with the Monroe Palace all over again. An eclectic building, admired by pretty much every serious architect outside Brazil, destroyed only because the President thought it blocked the view of a military facility. And worse, modernist Brazilian architects, like Lúcio Costa, actually supported the move, claiming there should be only modernist buildings in Brazil. That building was the seat of the Senate when the capital was still Rio. And just like that, half a century of Brazilian history was destroyed.

Image

http://www.ceci-br.org/novo/revista/docs2004/CT-2004-10.pdf

There is a huge movement to rebuild the Palace now, but I don't think it will happen anytime soon. Hopefully, that won't happen with the Aldeia Maracanã building, but if it does, I'll be the first one campaigning to have it rebuilt, eventually.
#14152414
I certainly hope the building will not be destroyed. There was a time when our governments actually cared about preserving historical buildings. They should be restoring it and turning it into a museum, not threatening demolition.


Yes, they should, but when you know that the ideal scenario simply won't happen, you have to resort to a harm reduction policy.
Since I know that they won't restore that bulding and keep it well-maintained, I prefer to see a parking lot there than homeless drug addicts trying to kill me or one of my relatives when we walk near that building.
"Desperate times call for desperate measures."
#14152433
They could also give it back to the original owners and have them reform the building. Or even sell it to third parties. It's not like there are only two options. :p

I'm surprised no rich businessmen in Rio proposed financing the restoration yet...
#14152470
They could also give it back to the original owners and have them reform the building. Or even sell it to third parties.


That would be "too right-wing" for them to do it... I don't see it happening, but it would surely solve the problem. Essentially, because the "need of a parking lot" is just a polite way of saying that they don't want an abandoned building full of criminals only a few meters away from the stadium where the World Cup final will be held.
#14152477
Rio wrote:Well, since Lula was elected for president in 2002, Brazil has been ruled by the Bread and Circuses politic.This politic consists to give food and entreteriment to the people, to they "don't" worry about the corruption. I'll explain the brazillian case:


A corrupt left-wing government that at least to an extent defends their class interests is leaps and bounds ahead of any government led by class enemies, irrespective of how corrupt the right wingers might be.
#14152627
Rio wrote:Look that sh*t, our mayor tried to demolish A INDIGENOUS MUSEUM, YES, A MUSEUM to build a parking for Maracanã Stadium. Luckily people occupied the museum and after a long time of tension, the government gave up.

I don't see the problem with this decision. That building is a dilapidated piece of junk that should make way for Maracanã. It's not like St. Peter's is being knocked down, just some crummy 19th Century building.
User avatar
By Rio
#14152717
KlassWar wrote:A corrupt left-wing government that at least to an extent defends their class interests is leaps and bounds ahead of any government led by class enemies, irrespective of how corrupt the right wingers might be.


I know, I do not have quoted ideals.

Thanks Smertios for open a little bit more my mind :)
#14156100
I don't believe in this class war we hear so much about. This reminds me of Bush's terminology, such as Global War on Terror.

I tend to think the Brazlian government is a bit goofy. But the average Brazilian is a bit goofy. Please understand I mean the average. You guys are not goofy, but some brazilians are very goofy.

That building does look in bad shape. I think they can do a third option, demolish it and put up a giant parking garage with the museum on top.

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