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#14947048
SolarCross wrote:But you can't tell anything at all so that's a pointless comment. I watched them all with rapt attention .....


So you noticed that the first two were pro-Allende?
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14947052
Pants-of-dog wrote:So you noticed that the first two were pro-Allende?

By what tortured daemonic unreasoning did you come to that bizarre conclusion?
User avatar
By Crantag
#14947075
Ter wrote:The very short version would be:
Allende fucked up the economy
Pinochet restored the economy

That's bullshit, though.

Chile under Pinochet was a failed experiment in neoliberalism, at a time when neoliberalism was pretty new.

It led to a state wherein the workers couldn't comfortably afford to buy even bread.
#14947090
Yes, having the US give you millions in financial aid certainly helps.

Also:

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/24/worl ... on-in.html

    Chile charges Pinochet with tax fraud over $27 million in banks

    SANTIAGO — Augusto Pinochet, Chile's former dictator, was charged Wednesday with tax fraud, passport forgery and other crimes related to an estimated $27 million in secret bank accounts under false names.

    Judge Carlos Cerda, who is also the prosecutor in the case, issued the indictment, put Pinochet under house arrest and set bail at the equivalent of $23,000. Additional charges include using false documents and providing incomplete statements of assets.

    Pinochet, who will turn 90 on Friday, has been indicted in two human rights cases in the last five years, but the charges were thrown out by courts that ruled that his mild dementia, caused by a series of small strokes, made him unfit to face trial.

    He recently underwent tests to determine whether he was well enough to face a criminal trial. It was not clear whether his defense would be able to block the new charges on health grounds.

    The indictment says he evaded about $2.4 million in taxes from 1980 to 2004.

    .....

He was a thief as well.
User avatar
By Crantag
#14947091
SolarCross wrote:Image

73-4 were the years of a global economic crisis, which was the worst since or after the Great Depression, until 2008-9 came around. That chart doesn't really have the ability to convince of anything.
By Sivad
#14947100
Crantag wrote:73-4 were the years of a global economic crisis, which was the worst since or after the Great Depression, until 2008-9 came around. That chart doesn't really have the ability to convince of anything.


Especially for an economy that rises and falls with the price of copper.
User avatar
By Crantag
#14947105
SolarCross wrote:For reference Allende became president in 1970 and was deposed in 1973.

Image

Real wages before, during and after Allende's presidency.

Looks like real wages fall off dramatically post-1973, at the time Allende was deposed (and murdered), and also coinciding with the global economic crisis.

Economic charts don't really directly implicate the condition of national leadership. The market conditions are more pertinent.

Trump did successfully create a stock bubble, though.

That being said, this is an excellent chart to argue my previous point (about the price of bread and such), and is quite contrary to your own. So thanks for doing my light work.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14947107
Crantag wrote:Looks like real wages fall off dramatically post-1973, at the time Allende was deposed (and murdered), and also coinciding with the global economic crisis.

Economic charts don't really directly implicate the condition of national leadership. The market conditions are more pertinent.

Trump did successfully create a stock bubble, though.

If you look at the graph the drop begins within a few months of Allende assuming office and the drop is stopped and reversed by his death. If you were in Allende's shoes, but with the benefit of hindsight, would you make the same policies?
User avatar
By Crantag
#14947108
SolarCross wrote:If you look at the graph the drop begins within a few months of Allende assuming office and the drop is stopped and reversed by his death. If you were in Allende's shoes, but with the benefit of hindsight, would you make the same policies?

You don't know how to read a chart.

There was a fluctuation before his death, and a dramatic drop after his death.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14947109
Crantag wrote:You don't know how to read a chart.

There was a fluctuation before his death, and a dramatic drop after his death.

No the orange lines mark the beginning and end of his career.

-------

Also you didn't answer my question would you do the same things he did?
User avatar
By Crantag
#14947112
SolarCross wrote:No the orange lines mark the beginning and end of his career.

-------

Also you didn't answer my question would you do the same things he did?

It's before my time.

I don't really know what he did.

I just hate Freidrich Hayek, and read Andre Gunder Frank's book, 'Economic Genocide in Chile' (it was actually more of a lengthy open letter, to his PhD advisors at Chicago School of Economics).

I am always ready to be wrong, and always willing to change my positions. But the book left an impression.

I was born a good bit after all this shit, though.
#14947113
    Amartya Sen, in his book Hunger and Public Action, examines the performance of Chile in various economic and social indicators. He finds, from a survey of the literature on the field:

    The so-called "monetarist experiment" which lasted until 1982 in its pure form, has been the object of much controversy, but few have claimed it to be a success...The most conspicuous feature of the post 1973 period is that of considerable instability...no firm and consistent upward trend (to say the least).

    According to Ricardo Ffrench-Davis the unnecessary radicalism of the shock therapy in the 1970s caused mass unemployment, purchasing power losses, extreme inequalities in the distribution of income and severe socio-economic damage.[22] According to United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean data the percentage of Chilean population living in poverty rose from 17% in 1969 to 45% in 1985.[23]

    Wages decreased by 8%.[24] Family allowances in 1989 were 28% of what they had been in 1970 and the budgets for education, health and housing had dropped by over 20% on average[24]

    Nobel laureate and economist Gary Becker states that "Chile's annual growth in per capita real income from 1985 to 1996 averaged a remarkable 5 percent, far above the rest of Latin America."[25] Since then the economy has averaged 3% annual growth in GDP.[26]

    Developments were very positive with regards to infant mortality and life expectancy—infant mortality rate fell so much that Chile achieved the lowest level of infant mortality in Latin America in the 1980s.[27] Infant mortality rate in Chile fell from 76.1 per 1000 to 22.6 per 1000 from 1970 to 1985.[26] In 1988, the military government passed a law making all abortion illegal, and the law remains in place today.

    However, Sen claims that this improvement was not because of "free-market" policies but because of active public and state intervention. Chile had a very long tradition of public action for the improvement of childcare, which were largely maintained after the Pinochet coup:

    ... there is little disagreement as to what caused the observed improvement in the area of child health and nutrition...It would be hard to attribute the impressively steady decline in infant mortality ... (despite several major economic recessions) ... to anything else than the maintenance of extensive public support measures

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle ... indicators
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14947114
Crantag wrote:It's before my time.

I don't really know what he did.

I just hate Freidrich Hayek, and read Andre Gunder Frank's book, 'Economic Genocide in Chile' (it was actually more of a lengthy open letter, to his PhD advisors at Chicago School of Economics).

I am always ready to be wrong, and always willing to change my positions. But the book left an impression.

I was born a good bit after all this shit, though.

It was before my time too, I wasn't born until a couple of years after Allende's death which apparently has been confirmed to have been suicide rather than execution.



Well he did deserve to die, dead commies are the best kind of commie, but we can't say that Pinochet or his supporters had the honour of killing him.

Why hate Hayek? Just curious.
#14947117
Real wages under Allende were 89.7% of what they were in 1970.

Real wages under Pinochet were 81.9% of what they were in 1970.
By Sivad
#14947163
Pants-of-dog wrote:the unnecessary radicalism of the shock therapy in the 1970s caused mass unemployment, purchasing power losses, extreme inequalities in the distribution of income and severe socio-economic damage.


Neoliberalism is great for the elites but bad for everyone else. Pinochet didn't just butcher the Chilean people, he butchered their economy too.
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