Pope Francis I's Responses to Dirty War Allegations - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14194262
Pope Francis’s defense against the worst allegation about his role in the dirty war
Posted by Max Fisher on March 15, 2013 at 1:16 pm
In 2010, three years before he became Pope Francis, Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio sat down with prosecutors and human rights lawyers in his office to give formal testimony about his role during Argentina’s “dirty war.” The internal conflict had killed thousands of civilians from 1976 to 1983, but was, and is, still only partially resolved. The Catholic Church, a powerful institution in Argentina, has long been accused of working with the right-wing military regime. It was probably only a matter of time until someone in Argentina asked about Bergolgio’s role.

In Bergolgio’s four hours of testimony, those questions were never quite fully answered. But now that he’s pope, the world’s most powerful religious institution is at the center of those same questions about a murky, 30-year-old conflict. A scholar of that war, Sam Ferguson, says he has a transcript of Bergoglio’s contentious 2010 testimony, which he discusses in a lengthy piece for the New Republic.
Much of the testimony focuses on a specific incident from 1976. There are other accusations against Bergoglio, for example not doing enough to halt the military’s kidnapping of children, but this may be the most specific and thus the most potentially damaging. According to long-simmering accusations in Argentina, Bergoglio had left two of his priests out to dry, perhaps for political reasons, withdrawing the church’s protection at a time when their activities made them prime targets for “disappearance” by the military. This, according to his critics, made him complicit in the military’s subsequent arrest of the two priests, who were secreted away to a notorious political prison in Buenos Aires.
Bergoglio, in his testimony, offered his own very different version of events, in which he did his best to protect the priests and ultimately win their safe release. But Ferguson, in his analysis of the transcripts, finds some gaps in Bergoglio’s testimony. It’s nothing damning, but probably enough to keep the questions about his role swirling.

What happened in 1976, according to Bergoglio’s accusers:
Bergoglio warned two priests, Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics, to abandon their work with poor families in a nearby slum, an activity some saw as leftist and potentially “subversive”; recall, this was a time of Marxist uprisings. They refused. He said they would have to leave their Jesuit order, even suspending one or both of their licenses. This may have been taken by the military as a sign that the church had withdrawn its protection of the priests, who were taken soon after. They were released in an empty field after several months.
Yorio, who died years ago, faulted Bergoglio for his kidnapping and once said, “I don’t have any reason to think that [Bergoglio] did anything for our freedom.” Jalics, who lives in Germany now, has not commented. (Update: Jalics finally spoke today, saying “I am reconciled to the events and consider the matter to be closed.”)

What happened in 1976, according to Bergoglio’s testimony:
In his 2010 testimony, the then-cardinal said he had supported Yorio and Jalics in their work despite the well-known dangers, even resisting internal church pressure to transfer them elsewhere. He said their licenses had not been withdrawn and that he had even granted them shelter at the provincial priesthood. Once they’d been taken, Bergoglio met with senior military officials to plead for their release, including the dictatorship’s national leader, Jorge Rafael Videla. After the priests reappeared, he helped them to flee the country.

The holes Sam Ferguson found in the testimony:
In his analysis for the New Republic, Ferguson did pick out some puzzling moments in Bergoglio’s 2010 testimony. Perhaps the biggest question is why Bergoglio never brought any legal charges or made any public statements about the incident, neither during the dirty war when it might have held some sway, nor after when the country was undergoing its painful and arduous effort to reconcile itself with what had happened. During his testimony, one lawyer asked Bergoglio why he had never “approached the courts” to share his information, as so many else had done. According to Ferguson, “The court did not allow the question, and Bergoglio did not answer.”

The issue came up separately, though, in another point in the testimony. Here’s Ferguson on Bergoglio’s odd statement:
Bergoglio admitted that he did not file any judicial charges, nor did he make any public statements about Yorio and Jalics. But when asked by one of the three presiding judges if Yorio or Jalics ever told him what they thought about his behavior during their kidnapping, he replied that, in personal conversations, “neither one of them asked me what more I could have done. … They didn’t blame me.”
Of course, Yorio had blamed Bergoglio, quite publicly and famously. When asked about this, Bergoglio said that Yorio probably only said this because he had been “conditioned by the suffering that he had to go through.”
Another strange moment came when Bergoglio was discussing the priest licenses for Yorio and Jalics. Recall, critics allege he had withdrawn their licenses and official church support. Bergoglio insisted he had not. Or, mostly he did. Ferguson found one moment in the testimony when Bergoglio seemed to suggest that the two priests might not have had official church sanction after all:
At one point, however, Bergoglio seemed to backtrack from this assertion. “I told them [Yorio and Jalics] that they could celebrate mass” after they had been asked to leave the slum during a moment of “transition.” He added that when he told the priests they could continue their work, despite being in transition, “I left it a bit to their interpretation,” implying that their work might not be officially sanctioned, but that he would not disapprove. Yorio’s brother Rodolfo also recalled at trial that Bergoglio had privately given Yorio permission to continue giving mass after his license was revoked.

There does seem to be some uncertainty, then, around the question of whether or not the two priests had official church sanction when they were taken by the military. If they did not, this does not necessarily implicate Bergoglio, but it does confirm a component of his critics’ story – and possibly contradict the new pope’s version of events.
Again, none of these divergences or contradictions are especially damning, but they are worth nothing. Perhaps it’s a sign that the now-pope may have left something out, or maybe it’s just what happens when you ask a then-74-year-old about a conflict that happened decades earlier and was difficult to understand even then.
#14194288
Social_Critic wrote:The title is Pope Francis. The I is superfluous.

Meh, nitpicking.
In any case he's the first Pope to take the name "Francis".

Social_Critic wrote:This type of article reminds me of something like "Jimmy Carter defends himself against charges of cannibalism".

Why?
It does seem interesting as he's now crowing about how the Church needs to be more attentive to the needs of the poor, but supposedly threw fellow Catholic clergy under the bus who were engaged in working with the poor.

It raises legitimate questions of what type of person Bergoglio/Francis is: A fair-minded champion of the rights of everyone? Or a fair-weather friend who quails in the face of power?
It doesn't look good if he failed to adequately defend two of his brethren who seemed to be doing exactly what he's advocating now: deep involvement with the poor and all that.
#14194330
Supposedly threw. You see, this is a classical smearing technique. There is nothing to such allegations, but now you are here claiming he supposedly threw people blah blah blah. This reminds me of so many other smearing campaigns in the past...

Tell you what, Gletkin, when I see somebody get attacked this way, I check and double check, and I make sure I use a lot of different sources. Because the sources making these claims are all going back to the same spots. And this far, from what I see, there's nothing to it.

Two points, I was there during the dirty war, I saw what was going on. And I'm not Christian.
#14194373
Social_Critic wrote:Supposedly threw.

Yes I believe I said precisely that:
Gletkin wrote:but supposedly threw fellow Catholic clergy under the bus who were engaged in working with the poor.


Social_Critic wrote:You see, this is a classical smearing technique. There is nothing to such allegations, but now you are here claiming he supposedly threw people blah blah blah. This reminds me of so many other smearing campaigns in the past...

See above.

Social_Critic wrote:I check and double check, and I make sure I use a lot of different sources. Because the sources making these claims are all going back to the same spots

What are those "spots"?

Social_Critic wrote:Two points, I was there during the dirty war, I saw what was going on.

Yes, yes, we know...you've been everywhere, done everything.
#14195104
Social_Critic wrote:Sith, personal attacks against me don't work.

Says the person who just did so against me.

Social_Critic wrote:Gletkin, I'm afraid you lack the ability to sense the nuances in such situations

Really?
I'll repeat what was just said:

Social_Critic wrote:This type of article reminds me of something like "Jimmy Carter defends himself against charges of cannibalism".

Gletkin wrote:Why?
It does seem interesting as he's now crowing about how the Church needs to be more attentive to the needs of the poor, but supposedly threw fellow Catholic clergy under the bus who were engaged in working with the poor.

So far, so good.
But then, you apparently believe that I'm really Sam Ferguson, because then you say:
Social_Critic wrote:but now you are here claiming he supposedly threw people blah blah blah.

Even though I had actually said:
Gletkin wrote:but supposedly threw fellow Catholic clergy under the bus

So in addition to lack of reading comprehension on your part apparently merely posting an article that states that allegations have been made against the Pope is enough to be accused of "smearing". Despite the fact that the same article also includes voices in defense of the Pope.

Sithsaber wrote:You didn't answer my question

He didn't answer mine either.
Gletkin wrote:What are those "spots"?

He also has yet to actually present any evidence, just more of his anecdotal claims that as ever make him sound like the Dos Equis advertisement figure.

Social_Critic wrote:I am convinced I know a lot, a whole lot more than you do about life and death in these circumstances, and the pressures leaders feel to keep as many as possible safe. And sometimes this means choices.

Yes, yes, heavy is the head that wears the crown.
Nonetheless, leaders get criticism for the choices they make. People still have the right to examine those choices and see if they were the right ones after all.
Pope Francis is no exception to this.

Social_Critic wrote:Young idealists have fun being idealists and mouthing off, but very few of you have what it takes to play life and death poker.

Posting an article presenting more than one POV is youthful idealism?

Social_Critic wrote:I gather from the way many of you write, in such stark black and white tones, that you don't really get it.

OMG seriously!!!? The one most approximate to that position in this thread is you.
You claim to emulate your current avatar, but you actually behave more like the people who burned him.
I think it'd be more appropriate for you to use Protestant rulers like Queen Elizabeth I...someone who used the language of "Freedom" ("protest" --> "protestant") to in reality establish a new repressive order.
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