[Dagoth Ur]

Except that you're defining vampire on all sorts of shaky, contradictory, ground. None of which is solid enough to call anyone a vampire. Just like the 14 points. Thanks for making my point S_C, and they say you hate communists.

[Solastalgia]

, I love how S_C puts up pictures of Maduro with his arm in a position that looks like the nazi salute, trying to equate him to hitler's fascist dicatorship.

we can do that with virtually any politician. it's a common gesture that's done by politicians to acknowledge the crowd. it doesn't mean they're a neo-nazi.







even benjamin netanyahu does it.

[Technology]

Do you mean the 14 points of fascism made by Dr. Laurence Britt who supposedly studied fascist regimes according to the meme, but was never actually a doctor, didn't do any in depth research, and actually just made those (highly generic authoritarian) characteristics up for his cheap novel titled June 2004, about America becoming a fascist (read: Republican conservative) dictatorship and an article he made criticizing the Bush administration titled "Fascism, anyone?"?

[Dagoth Ur]

The very same. Its no surprise that S_C uses it as well considering his abysmal grip on even the basics of what communism or fascism are.

[benpenguin]

This thread is so entertaining to read.

SC, if you could just leave out the poorly misused labels and discuss how bad the Castro regime is, you might just have an honest debate - I think a lot of people might agree with you that they suck.

Instead, you just force everybody to accept this watered down definition of "fascism" and ended up being a lulzcow. Why do the Castros have to be Facist in order to hate them anyway?

[Social_Critic]

Except that you're defining vampire on all sorts of shaky, contradictory, ground. None of which is solid enough to call anyone a vampire. Just like the 14 points. Thanks for making my point S_C, and they say you hate communists.

I don´t think you made a point at all. You would have to find the 14 points mentioned by Porras, list them, and then support they are not proper definitions of fascism.

Otherwise you would have to provide your definition of fascism broken down in attributes, and the audience could debate it. It´s up to you.

================NOTE===================

Thursday night they started using Army troops to take over sectors of the city of Valencia, where violence by the government´s paramilitaries (the biker gangs/Brown shirts they arm and finance) has been unable to stop the protests. One of the sectors they took over was la Isabelica, a poor neighborhood where the guard beat a seamstress senseless with a helmet as she laid on the street.

[Dagoth Ur]

Its very simple: Fascism is the empowerment of the most reactionary segments of the bourgeoisie, primarily the petite bourgeoisie, tasked with the preservation of the rule of Capital. A list of attributes would be seriously flawed as fascism differs extremely depending on place and time. For example Franco's fascism was distinctly different (to the point of only sharing a common purpose) from White Army fascism in the infant RSFSR.

Now you know. But since you're not interested in what Fascism actually is, but rather how you can use it against communists, I'm sure you won't like this definition.

[Social_Critic]

Do you mean the 14 points of fascism made by Dr. Laurence Britt who supposedly studied fascist regimes?

I wouldn´t know the 14 points in a specific fashion. A former chavista military officer feels Maduro qualifies as a fascist using 11 out of 14 points. He didn´t explain which 14 points he used.

If you care to find a reliable set of points, then we can see if Raul Castro and Nicolas Maduro his puppet qualify as fascists in the 21st century.

Here´s some images and text with links you may wish to study, look it over without bias, and you will see why I think the Venezuelan regime is fascist. We have much more material available to pin Maduro as a fascist autocrat. Then we have to paddle upstream and look at his puppet masters. Is FIdel fascist? That´s debatable. Is Raul Castro fascist? I think he is.

Military Parade (they have them quite often)



Military regime nominally led by Maduro, the puppet



Chavez cult (note the Cuban flag waving behind Maduro?)



Corruption (if you don´t know how to locate Venezuela, it´s the blood red high corruption nation on the northern coast of south america)



Human rights abuses, such as jail massacres with dozens to hundreds dead per incident



Brown shirts also known as colectivos, armed by the regime to abuse the people. Note the slogan "Fatherland or Death" to the left, and "Honor and GLory to Raul Reyes" on the right of this photograph. Raul Reyes was a high level FARC terrorist.



Alliances with large corporations happy to cooperate with the regime, here´s some info about Chevron in Venezuela, including a $2 billion loan they extended to the Maduro regime right after the 2013 presidential elections

http://www.theguardian.com/world/feedarticle/10812039

http://www.chevron.com/countries/venezuela/

Odebrecht, the giant Brazilian company does billions in business in Venezuela (the real reason why Brazil backed Chavez and now backs Maduro)

http://www.odebrecht.com/es/node/14331

Centralization of power

Chavez also centralized political power as he gained control of the main institutions of Venezuelan society—the military, the judiciary, the congress, the central bank, the electoral council, the most important broadcast media, etc.—and did so by trampling on due process and basic civil and political liberties.

http://www.cato.org/blog/chavez-record

Like many authoritarian leaders, Chávez centralized power for his own use. Not long after taking office in 1999, he controlled every branch of government, the armed forces, the central bank, the state-owned oil company, most of the media, and any private sector business he chose to expropriate. But Venezuela never experienced massive human rights abuses. Dissidents didn’t disappear in the night, and for all Chavez’s professed love for Fidel Castro, his regime was never as repressive as Castro’s tropical dictatorship.

----- Rather than stuffing ballot boxes, Chávez understood that he could tilt the playing field enough to make it nearly impossible to defeat him. Thus, the regime’s electoral wizards engineered gerrymandering schemes that made anything attempted in the American South look like child’s play. Chávez’s campaign coffers were fed by opaque slush funds holding billions in oil revenue. The government’s media dominance drowned out the opposition. Politicians who appeared formidable were simply banned from running for office. And the ruling party became expert in using fear and selective intimidation to tamp down the vote. Chávez took a populist message and married it to an autocratic scheme that allowed him to consolidate power.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... pical.html

Government use of brute force and murder to take over worker unions

But labor leaders and human rights groups say the government's efforts have had a dark side. About 75 union members have been shot dead in the past two years as the new unions -- many of them pro-Chávez -- and traditional unions battle it out, making Venezuela among the world's most dangerous countries for labor activists.

"The state is responsible for all these deaths," said Orlando Chirinos, a former Chávez ally who helps lead a labor federation that has seen several members killed in this northern city. "When union leaders from parallel unions know of job sites, they sit there and wait -- and they are all armed. Everyone knows. Why doesn't the government send troops?"

Union leaders and the respected Provea rights group in Caracas say newly formed unions have turned to paid killers, targeting low-level activists and union chiefs alike.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05832.html

[Dagoth Ur]

Of course he is? Yeah if you forget what history, facts, or basic logic are. Fascists are never the ones in power at peace time. Show one real fascist leader that was leader before the conflict. Even one.

[Social_Critic]

Of course he is? Yeah if you forget what history, facts, or basic logic are. Fascists are never the ones in power at peace time. Show one real fascist leader that was leader before the conflict. Even one.

I see you skirted around the simple fact that Maduro defines 21st century fascism. My case is also helped when you and your friends advocate ethnic cleansing. Anything to add to the defense before we call the jury?

[Dagoth Ur]

I see that you can't find a single fascist who was put into power during a non-crisis. Oh and now it's 21st century fascism? What is that? Whatever you want it to be? Okay standard Social_Critic post noted and ignored.

[Social_Critic]

I see that you can't find a single fascist who was put into power during a non-crisis. Oh and now it's 21st century fascism? What is that?

I see you can´t make a comment about the profuse amount of information I posted showing Maduro is indeed a fascist. For your information, he´s a 21st century fascist. This means he also has to deal with internet censorship, hackers, Smart phones being used to send out videos and photographs of his abuses, and its counterpart, very sophisticated government monitoring systems, cameras, automated email scanners, the robocops, and the Brown Shirts or motorcycle gangs on wheels. Fascism, and its repressive methods, do evolve.

[Dagoth Ur]

So now fascism is motorcycle gangs?

[Social_Critic]

So now fascism is motorcycle gangs?

In 21st century Venezuela these motorcycle gangs are paid and armed by the regime to attack peaceful protest marches and threaten people in poor areas. Hitlers equivalents were brown shirts. The Haitian dictator Duvalier called them Ton Ton Macoutes. They are also used in Cuba. And now the Cubans introduce them to Venezuela.

Chavista sources turning against Maduro are passing information which reveal these biker gangs are directed by Cuban agents. The hardcore teams are paid handsomely, about 3000 bolis per day. Interestingly, the same source says these guys only number about 1000. This means the resistance training video I posted should start to reduce their numbers, the idea is to grease the streets with crankcase oil mixed with a small amount of water and use hoses studded with small nails. Once those guys are on foot they can't move around from spot to spot attacking the individual barricades.

The resistance is also using a new method starting as of early this morning. They stuff choke points with people who sit down on the street and refuse to move, it's creating huge traffic jams and nobody can get to work.

[Solastalgia]

In 21st century Venezuela these motorcycle gangs are paid and armed by the regime to attack peaceful protest marches

Peaceful protests?

You're so one-sided on this issue - it's ridiculous.

Since when is bringing molotov cocktails and guns to a protest, peaceful?

I'm sure you also consider those wire setups that have decapitated people at blockades to be "peaceful."

and threaten people in poor areas.

The current Venezeualan oppositions protests have mainly taken place in upper middle class neighborhoods. Most of the poor people of Venzuela are Chavistas and support the Bolivarian Revolution.

[Social_Critic]

Peaceful protests? I'm sure you also consider those wire setups that have decapitated people at blockades to be "peaceful.".

See the poll results I just posted in a new post a few minutes ago.

Reference the wire traps to stop the biker gangs, the resistance leadership suggested those should be discontinued for now (they only killed one biker but it wasn't nice to decapitate the guy).

The new video I posted suggests the use of greased streets to make the bikers skid and fall off. They also include the use of nail studded hoses laid across the street. Verbal instructions are to use small caliber sniper rifles to shoot out their bikes if they dismount. The idea is to peacefully leave them on foot. If they draw and start shooting at the people then they are to be photographed. They can be dealt with quietly at a later time, in Venezuela 50 to 60 people are killed everyday in holdups and "common crime" incidents, so the resistance feels they can accept many killed on their side provided they can take care of the problem at a later time.

Does that make you feel better? It will be peaceful protests as much as humanly possible. Those who commit murder will be treated well before they are executed by the people's courts.

[Solastalgia]

Dude, you're ridiculous. I don't understand how you think throwing stones, molotov cocktails, and having guns at a protest, is as peaceful as humanly possible. You're like the US state dept, calling the Ukraine protests "peaceful" .

The opposition protests have been inciting violence; plain and simple. Why should they be surprised by the crackdown from government forces? That's, in fact, exactly what they wanted (they instigated it). This is an un-democratic violent coup attempt, that's not much different than what we saw in Ukraine. They want nothing less than the ousting of Maduro through un-democratic means.

If you want to see a peaceful protest, look at the thousands of Chavista/Maduro supporters that marched for peace against the opposition protests

[Social_Critic]

Dude, you're ridiculous. I don't understand how you think throwing stones, molotov cocktails, and having guns at a protest, is as peaceful as humanly possible

I haven´t seen a single instance of a protester carrying a gun while marching. The marches are peaceful. Some youths have built barricades to stop traffic, and they are attacked by armed biker gangs sent by the government in coordinated attacks. This is when they throw molotov cocktails. Notice that very few guards have been hit by one of those molotov cocktails, and none have been burned enough to send them to the hospital. Given that protesters are being shot using live ammunition and being beaten with brass knuckles and helmets, kicks in the face, and so on, this shows remarkable contraint on the part of the protest movement.

The only exception to the peaceful protest movement is the town of San Cristobal, almost the whole town has risen in full revolt. But that revolt has thus far not caused a single government soldier or policeman killed in action.

Let me give you a map of Tachira so you can see why it´s so important.



As you can see, San Cristobal is close to the Colombian border. It has been the main center for smuggling goods and gasoline into Colombia. The smuggling is driven by the unbelieavable Exchange rate difference between the black market rate (which has gone as high as 85 bolis per dollar) and the official CADIVI rate (now set at 6.3 bolis per dollar). Thus the whole town is in revolt for a cumulative set of causes.

But the overwhelming majority of protests are very peaceful. I realize you are probably part of a campaign set up to smear the protest movement. All I can do is show the photographs of what 99 % of the protests are like



FUERA CUBA



La Isabelica Sigue en la Calle



cansados de este gobierno de mierda

[Social_Critic]

It's time to take that government down, the best method is to have a protest movement like the one in Venezuela. The key is to send to Cuba the same Venezuela protest videos and cut off the cash we send to our relatives. Pass it on.

[Sandokan]

A large number of buildings in Cuba are in poor condition due to lack of construction materials, money and motivation. Nothing would change until the Castroit regime is kick out of power.

The Urban Reform Law of 1960 expropriated the property of urban landowners and the tenements without compensation. For over 50 years the Castroit regime has been the owner of all buildings. It has not allow the people to sell their homes to other individuals. They only could sell them to the regime, which would determine their value, in detriment of the so call “owner.”