[Social_Critic]

A senior editor for the Castroite newspaper Granma has left Cuba and showed up in Miami criticizing media censorship by the Cuban dictatorship

http://abcnews.go.com/US/t/story/granma ... F110824994

[KlassWar]

With any luck, it won't be long for DI to grab'im, bag'im and throw'im into the Atlantic. Fucking gusano.

[Social_Critic]

It's likely we will see increased numbers of young Cuban ex communists fleeing and criticizing the Castroite fascist dictatorship. And this is clearly the tip of the iceberg. There must be tens of thousands quietly organizing the new revolution, to overthrow the Castro regime. Dictatorships which rely on communist dogma to hold on to power for over 50 years, enslave the people, and on top fail to deliver some sort of decent life meet a lot of opposition when they start to show their fascist nature. And let there be no doubt, Raul Castro and his upper nomenklatura are a bunch of fascists. The regime has degenerated into a military dictatorship aiming at capitalism developed in cooperation with large multinationals. These guys even have prostitution, sexual tourism, and the upper class living in the largest homes. It's the same old thing all over again. The worms are going to eat that rotten corpse.

[Dagoth Ur]

Yeah so long as you can get a free ride to American residency/citizenship by abandoning Cuba and being a vocal rat, this'll keep happening. In other words nothing to see here but social_critic trying to lionize a traitor.

[SolarCross]

Yeah so long as you can get a free ride to American residency/citizenship by abandoning Cuba and being a vocal rat, this'll keep happening. In other words nothing to see here but social_critic trying to lionize a traitor.

Would you call Edward Snowden a traitor?

I think sometimes people find themselves in conflict of interests. They agreed to be helper for some group whilst at the same time they have loyalty to truth or justice or similar. Then at sometime they find that they cannot continue to be loyal to their group and loyal to truth or justice or similar at the same time and so must choose one or the other to be loyal to. I tend to think a good man will put loyalty to truth and justice above loyalty to a group that is hostile to truth and justice. So Snowden is okay, he made the right choice. Maybe this editor made the right choice also.

[Dagoth Ur]

Anything that hurts imperialism is good, anything that helps is bad. No contradiction to be seen.

[BATIK]

Anything that hurts imperialism is good, anything that helps is bad. No contradiction to be seen.

So dictatorship and censorship in Cuba is fine as long as it, according to you, "hurts imperialism"?

[Dagoth Ur]

As opposed to what? A pro-imperial dictator who uses censorship? Also point to any country in the world that doesn't employ censorship.

[BATIK]

As opposed to what? A pro-imperial dictator who uses censorship?

As opposed to supporting an open society, whereby there are no restrictions on the flow of information.

Also point to any country in the world that doesn't employ censorship.

There's next to none. That doesn't mean you have to support censorship, ever, though. One should oppose it in all instances, whether in Cuba, the U.S or North Korea.

[Stormsmith]

A senior editor for the Castroite newspaper Granma has left Cuba and showed up in Miami criticizing media censorship by the Cuban dictatorship

SC, you should try reading Politics Forum . Org sometime. Everyone on it seems to have a negative comment about most governments.

I doubt there's going to be schoals of young Cubans ditching Cuba. This must be an exciting time for them. They can recieve a world class university education for free! Young medical graduates are being sent to exotic places, and are seen as ambassadors for Cuba. Teachers are being hired internationally to teach other teachers how to maximise their students potential. Cuba is seeing more and more international investments, Jobs are opening up, the opportunity to start one's own business is easier, and with off shore drilling in the near future, I'd think a lot of them will see this as an oportunity to 'get in on the ground floor'

As opposed to supporting an open society, whereby there are no restrictions on the flow of information.

Does President Obama know this? He seemed a tad miffed with Snowdon, Earl of Hacking.

[Dagoth Ur]

As opposed to supporting an open society, whereby there are no restrictions on the flow of information.

Yeah, that's what will replace socialism in Cuba. Just look at how marvelously it worked out for Russia.

There's next to none. That doesn't mean you have to support censorship, ever, though. One should oppose it in all instances, whether in Cuba, the U.S or North Korea.

I see no reason to criticize anti-imperial censorship. Imperial propaganda and culture should be stomped out with boots. The greater struggle may seem uncomfortable, but what we're overturning is far more than uncomfortable.

[BATIK]

Does President Obama know this? He seemed a tad miffed with Snowdon, Earl of Hacking.

Yes, because opposing dictatorship and censorship in Cuba automatically means someone is indifferent to violations of privacy going on in the U.S.

I'll repeat again: censorship should be opposed, in all its forms, in every location in the world. There's no doubt that in some places it tends to be far more insidious to the citizens.

When people point to a place like Cuba's literacy rates or whatever, I always think to myself: What a grave crime it is to give people the ability to read but not allow them to read what they like and explore the entire realm of literature.

[BATIK]

Yeah, that's what will replace socialism in Cuba. Just look at how marvelously it worked out for Russia.

There has never been a free-flow of information in Russia.

The free flow of information would empower Cubans who have every right as you or I do to discover the world for themselves and not through the agenda of some detached bureaucracy.

I see no reason to criticize anti-imperial censorship. Imperial propaganda and culture should be stomped out with boots. The greater struggle may seem uncomfortable, but what we're overturning is far more than uncomfortable.

So you're effectively denying any information that can arbitrarily be determined anti-imperial. Reminds me of people being arrested in NK for watching Desperate Housewives. I suppose that's rampant pro-imperial propaganda, exposing people to such luscious lawns and all.

[Dagoth Ur]

There has never been a free-flow of information in Russia.

When was there a free flow of information in Cuba?

The free flow of information would empower Cubans who have every right as you or I do to discover the world for themselves and not through the agenda of some detached bureaucracy.

I only have this because of the Internet. The US, not the Cubans, are keeping advanced internet tech away from Cuba.

So you're effectively denying any information that can arbitrarily be determined anti-imperial. Reminds me of people being arrested in NK for watching Desperate Housewives. I suppose that's rampant pro-imperial propaganda, exposing people to such luscious lawns and all.

Desperate Housewives is awful tv. They should be punished for wasting energy alone.

[BATIK]

When was there a free flow of information in Cuba?

Never.

I only have this because of the Internet. The US, not the Cubans, are keeping advanced internet tech away from Cuba.

True, I don't support any blockade or embargoes at all. That doesn't mean the Cuban government has not repressed information within its borders, particularly anti-government information.

Desperate Housewives is awful tv. They should be punished for wasting energy alone.

You're either dodging or missing the point: what exactly is 'anti-imperial' information? Repressing information based on this criteria, devised using arbitrary, abstract principles is the exact argument used by the censors and elite. There should be no repression in this sphere whatsoever, the only appeal to censorship is essentially a worshiping of the elite. If you're afraid that the free-flowing of ideas in Cuba would topple the government, then that's just another argument for the removal of censorship -- if people, being allowed to explore the depths of the world's information, would choose a different government, then all the more power to them.

[Stormsmith]

My point was that all governments have some want to control information. Tolerance varies.

When people point to a place like Cuba's literacy rates or whatever, I always think to myself: What a grave crime it is to give people the ability to read but not allow them to read what they like and explore the entire realm of literature.

Most Cubans have some access to the web, its just painstaking slow to download music and movies. International calls made on mobile phones are a pain too, but the world is opening up for them. Chavez was helping them to gain faster access to the web, although, in truth, I don't know whether or not that programme was suspended after his death.

[BATIK]

My point was that all governments have some want to control information. Tolerance varies.

Indeed it does. In places like Cuba it is absolutely essential to the elite to control information because, obviously, their reign depends on suppressed knowledge.

Most Cubans have some access to the web, its just painstaking slow to download music and movies. International calls made on mobile phones are a pain too, but the world is opening up for them. Chavez was helping them to gain faster access to the web, although, in truth, I don't know whether or not that program was suspended after his death.

Great. I'll be a bit more sympathetic to the Cuban cause when they at least start developing an independent, robust media. They have consistently ranked in the bottom 15 on various press freedom indexes.

And, as I'm sure you know, Cubans practically cannot watch or listen to independent, private, or foreign broadcasts. All literature has to be approved by the government before being eligible for legal circulation. This is censorship on a completely different level to the U.S.

[layman]

but social_critic trying to lionize a traitor.

Why not when he is one too

I dont see the need to call them facists though. Is 'communist' not an evil enough sounding tag these days? It works for me anyway.

[Social_Critic]

Why not when he is one too

I dont see the need to call them facists though. Is 'communist' not an evil enough sounding tag these days? It works for me anyway.

I'm not a traitor because I was young when Castro took over. It's true most of my family supported Castro in those days, but I'm not responsible for their gullibility. Since I've never been pro dictatorship and despise human rights abuses, I think I'm clear. I can advocate putting Fidel Castro in a wood chipper feet first, and I don't feel an ethical conflict at all.

[jc_]

You need shitloads of money to leave if you have a white card. That generally means having people abroad with that money. I'd bet these people fleeing are black.

After I typed that I went to try to find a picture, this is from last year: http://cubademocraciayvida.org/web/arti ... rtID=21765

Black Cubans, despite popular belief, are treated as a lesser class in Cuba and indeed they don't benefit from the travel program as much as others who have relatives or acquaintances abroad who can send them money for the trip.