[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Jesus Christ. I was being blatantly sarcastic by linking to a post where I point out that America has, in fact, been involved in anti-government operations in Venezuela. The US government has openly acknowledged that it has funded and supported anti-government operations there:

it is clear that NED, Department of Defense (DOD), and other U.S. assistance programs provided training, institution building, and other support to individuals and organizations understood to be actively involved in the brief ouster of the Chávez government

[MememyselfandIJK]

Jesus Christ. I was being blatantly sarcastic by linking to a post where I point out that America has, in fact, been involved in anti-government operations in Venezuela. The US government has openly acknowledged that it has funded and supported anti-government operations there:

Whoops. I just took one look at the date, and more of less dismissed it without reading the post.

[stephen50right]

[Bulaba note: As the moderator of Latin America, I hereby grant you permission to respond to people's posts in threads here in LA when there are mild tangents, because that's a natural feature of online discussion boards. Do not live in fear for your life any longer, Stephen50Right.]



Oh, but haven't you heard? America has nothing to do whatsoever with anti-government movements and protests in Venezuela! And has never had anything to do with anti-government activities anywhere else in Latin America, too!

Well, Venezuela is an example of what happens when a far left socialist country collapses. It's fine for awhile, perhaps for a number of years, for a far left socialist country to provide "free everything" but that societal model eventually sooner or later will collapse. Then nobody has anything other than the assets they currently own. The government benefits are no more, nobody picks up the garbage, basic utilities may not work, the list goes on and on.

The rich have their nice assets, but the problem even for them is poor, hungry, angry people in mass attacking their luxury homes and pillaging what the rich own. So the rich wind up with nothing as well unless they have money in overseas bank accounts and vamoose the country.

What's so inherently bad about far left socialism is that Venezuela has huge oil reserves, a form of crude that is particularly valuable. Yet their far left socialist government with the inevitable corruption has decimated the people of Venezuela despite this natural wealth. Hopefully the good people of Venezuela learn from this mistake, and never again allow a far left socialist dictator to control their country...and not a far right dictator either, they are just as corrupt.

[MememyselfandIJK]

The rich have their nice assets, but the problem even for them is poor, hungry, angry people in mass attacking their luxury homes and pillaging what the rich own. So the rich wind up with nothing as well unless they have money in overseas bank accounts and vamoose the country.

The rich are stripped of their money. Oh boo-hoo...

[stephen50right]

The rich are stripped of their money. Oh boo-hoo...

If it's the elitist left, family and friends of Hugo Chavez who got rich alongside him and his corruption, then I agree with ya.

If it's hard working entrepreneurs, who for years brought goods and services to the Venezuelan people, and accumulated wealth doing that, then that is totally unfair.

[skinster]

[MememyselfandIJK]

If it's hard working entrepreneurs

"Hard working entrepreneurs." Yea I am sure they work 470 times harder than the average worker. /s How deluded can you get?

[stephen50right]

"Hard working entrepreneurs." Yea I am sure they work 470 times harder than the average worker. /s How deluded can you get?

Intentionally ignorant leftists will never care to understand why some in society ARE worth 470 times more than the average worker because they bring goods and services to society that ARE worth more than 470 times what the average worker brings to society. That's the way it is.

If it wasn't that way, you wouldn't have a computer right now. If the world only consisted of average workers, the best communication device you would have is 2 empty tin cans and a long string, because there wouldn't have been an entrepreneur such as Thomas Edison with the skill set to take it to the next level, which BTW benefits ALL average workers.

[MememyselfandIJK]

@stephen50right, here is a joke I recently heard that may be relevant:

A capitalist is walking through his factory with a friend.

Friend asks, "What did you tell that man just now?"

"I told him to work faster", answers the capitalist.

"How much do you pay him?" asks the friend.

"Fifteen dollars a day" answers the capitalist.

"Where do you get the money to pay him?" asks the friend.

"I sell products", answers the capitalist.

"Who makes the products?" asks the friend.

"He does", answers the capitalist.

"How many products does he make in a day?" asks the friend.

"Fifty dollars worth", answers the capitalist.

"Then", concludes the friend, "Instead of you paying him, he pays you thirty-five dollars a day to tell him to work faster".

"Huh", and the capitalist quickly adds, "Well, I own the machines".

"How did you get the machines?" asks the friend.

"I sold products and bought them", answers the capitalist.

"And who made those products?" asks friend.

To which the capitalist can only respond—to his friend, but also to the media and to the schools—"Shut up! He might hear you".



And no, a entrepreneur did not design the computer I am using. It was designed by a team of hired programmers, engineers, and maybe an artist or two, who are paid massively less than a CEO

It was not Edison who invented the phone, it was Bell

[AFAIK]

Actually modern corporations are structured like absolute monarchies. One of the first things a new CEO will do is remove previous board members and replace them with his own people. Who decides a CEO is worth millions per year? His mate's who sit on the board of course!

I recommend reading The Dictator's Handbook, which discusses this in a detailed and readable manner.

[MememyselfandIJK]

Actually modern corporations are structured like absolute monarchies.

[mikema63]

The crappynes of that MS paint job is indicative of the reason socialist societies fall apart.

[stephen50right]

@stephen50right, here is a joke I recently heard that may be relevant:

A capitalist is walking through his factory with a friend.

Friend asks, "What did you tell that man just now?"

"I told him to work faster", answers the capitalist.

"How much do you pay him?" asks the friend.

"Fifteen dollars a day" answers the capitalist.

"Where do you get the money to pay him?" asks the friend.

"I sell products", answers the capitalist.

"Who makes the products?" asks the friend.

"He does", answers the capitalist.

"How many products does he make in a day?" asks the friend.

"Fifty dollars worth", answers the capitalist.

"Then", concludes the friend, "Instead of you paying him, he pays you thirty-five dollars a day to tell him to work faster".

"Huh", and the capitalist quickly adds, "Well, I own the machines".

"How did you get the machines?" asks the friend.

"I sold products and bought them", answers the capitalist.

"And who made those products?" asks friend.

To which the capitalist can only respond—to his friend, but also to the media and to the schools—"Shut up! He might hear you".



And no, a entrepreneur did not design the computer I am using. It was designed by a team of hired programmers, engineers, and maybe an artist or two, who are paid massively less than a CEO

It was not Edison who invented the phone, it was Bell

I stated "skill set to take it to the next level" in which Edison was the one who was instrumental is taking the telephone to the masses, so that the "average worker" could enjoy it. Edison also brought many other communication devices to the marketplace such as motion pictures and the phonograph.

Your silly "joke" is a joke within itself as it displays a fundamental lack of understanding of how entrepreneurship truly works.

[MememyselfandIJK]

I stated "skill set to take it to the next level" in which Edison was the one who was instrumental is taking the telephone to the masses, so that the "average worker" could enjoy it. Edison also brought many other communication devices to the marketplace such as motion pictures and the phonograph.

Please answer my point directly instead of dancing around it. To answer your point, I would like to ask you, how many Edisons have we missed out on because, despite having the Skill Set they could not acquire the resources or education to peruse their ideas. We will never know what talent we miss out on when someone is born to a position in society too low to get ahead. Earnings is largely independent of incentive to better humanity or talent. Scientists, doctors, and engineers (and yes entrepreneurs) are arguably the most important people, but they earn virtually nothing compared to a CEO.

For comparison:

• Thomas Edison, the most successful entrepreneur, had about 12 million in 2017 USD when he died in 1931
• Rockefeller, the most successful CEO, had about 340 Billion in 2017 USD when he died in 1937.

The most successful entrepreneurs don't even cut it close compared to the average CEO.

The crappynes of that MS paint job is indicative of the reason socialist societies fall apart.

Digital is better than any paint job

[stephen50right]

Please answer my point directly instead of dancing around it. To answer your point, I would like to ask you, how many Edisons have we missed out on because, despite having the Skill Set they could not acquire the resources or education to peruse their ideas. We will never know what talent we miss out on when someone is born to a position in society too low to get ahead. Earnings is largely independent of incentive to better humanity or talent. Scientists, doctors, and engineers (and yes entrepreneurs) are arguably the most important people, but they earn virtually nothing compared to a CEO.

For comparison:

• Thomas Edison, the most successful entrepreneur, had about 12 million in 2017 USD when he died in 1931
• Rockefeller, the most successful CEO, had about 340 Billion in 2017 USD when he died in 1937.

The most successful entrepreneurs don't even cut it close compared to the average CEO.



Digital is better than any paint job

Wow, first you display ignorance about entrepreneurship. Now you've take it a step further with an ignorance about the world of business. Of which sorry but I have no interest in wasting time trying to educate you about fundamentals of the economic marketplace.

So go ahead and live in your leftist fantasy land. Obviously you enjoy it and far be it from me to wish to disturb that for you.

[MememyselfandIJK]

Wow, first you display ignorance about entrepreneurship. Now you've take it a step further with an ignorance about the world of business. Of which sorry but I have no interest in wasting time trying to educate you about fundamentals of the economic marketplace.

So go ahead and live in your leftist fantasy land. Obviously you enjoy it and far be it from me to wish to disturb that for you.

Resorting to personal attacks are we? I see that you have run out of any significant scrap of evidence.

[jimjam]

Intentionally ignorant leftists will never care to understand why some in society ARE worth 470 times more than the average worker because they bring goods and services to society that ARE worth more than 470 times what the average worker brings to society. That's the way it is.

If it wasn't that way, you wouldn't have a computer right now. If the world only consisted of average workers, the best communication device you would have is 2 empty tin cans and a long string, because there wouldn't have been an entrepreneur such as Thomas Edison with the skill set to take it to the next level, which BTW benefits ALL average workers.

Hey Steve what have you been "bringing to society" lately?

I could easily outline how your premise is full of shit but I would be "off topic" and I don't do that.

Have you heard.........trump is going to launch a really really great health care plan that is better than anything that ever there was? I would describe it in detail but, once again, I don't want to be off topic.

How old are you?

[jimjam]

I think America has a pretty good balance between capitalism and socialism presently.
Wow, I completely disagree with you. America lacks universal healthcare, any labour protections except from bigots, any parental leave and most of your utilities operate as private for profit monopolies. Even big businesses support many of these "socialist" programs. General Motors says the cars it manufactures in the US are $500 more expensive than those made in Europe and Asia due to the cost of health insurance for employees.

Your points are well taken but ................ imagine America without Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid or unemployment benefits. My point of view I suspect is myopically self centered. I am old and receiving both Social Security AND medicare. That is BIG. Further, my Mom died over a period of years with dementia. I would be bankrupt today if I had paid the enormous monthly bills for her care that the government paid.

[AFAIK]

I didn't mean to criticise the welfare Americans have available to them. I was just giving the perspective of a British social democrat (progressive) who was born in an NHS hospital and had the oppourtunity to attend higher education for peanuts. Is medicare basically universal healthcare (single payer) for the elderly? You could expand that to younger generations instead of starting from scratch.
_____________

@memer
It's been a while since I read the book but the authors identified 3 categories of decision makers, iirc;- The interchangables would be voters in a democracy and smaller shareholders in a company. The influentials would be elected representatives and those who owned significant shares. The essentials would be big doners or board members. The groups get smaller and individual members of each group get more powerful. One way to measure this power is by how much it costs to buy someone's vote. The IOC (The Olympics) has power shared by many members so votes are sold cheaply (~$200) because one vote doesn't get you very far. FIFA on the other hand concentrates power amongst fewer members and their votes sell for six figures and up.

*Written from memory. Please don't hate me if I'm wrong.

[Hong Wu]

Trump is in favor of maternal leave, so you are now against it because it hurts women.

I read that the average Venezuelan has lost about 15 pounds under the current crisis.