Puerto Rico's Relationship with the USA and the Jones Act and Hurricane Maria - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14848424
Tainari88 wrote:
Well, what I mean by brown people taking over is, a change in culture as well. Perhaps a culture that is less imperial.

I am not a person who thinks color solves problems. Brown people. White people, etc. No, that is not important. I believe in a set of principles that you deal with in politics that solves problems. If you have a bunch of Latino kids getting crappy educations without some substance they will pull the lever for the wrong candidate every time. You need well educated adults who happen to be of every ethnicity making decisions based on logic, science, data, a love of humanitarian values, and having a society that values educating people over instructing them and making them good little obedient workers who don't question the powers that be. That is what is effective.

I want educated, informed, well rounded and thoughtful Latinos and others making good political decisions. That is what I support.
#14848439
Rancid wrote:Well, what I mean by brown people taking over is, a change in culture as well. Perhaps a culture that is less imperial.


You need a total change in imperial thinking. You won't get that if you promote the current way of running a capitalist international market. They force you into imperialism. Got to realize that they are the culprit of all the imperial fallout. That is the reality.

Rancid I really like Smedley Butler USMC quote from 1933, this is the reason of imperialism being perpetuated in the first place:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le4377.htm

He famously said that the dollar goes first and then the flag is following the dollar. First the capitalist vultures move in to make money and then they use the government and the military to secure the territory, product, power for them. That has been the pattern. And it benefits very few individuals. Never society as a whole.
#14848516
Tainari88 wrote:The USA created the status we live under Fin. In fact, if you study Puerto Rican history for decades like I have you have a very clear understanding that Puerto Ricans were declared USA citizens in 1917. Mainly to be drafted for WWI fighting for the USA. A highly unpopular war at the time in the USA. Puerto Ricans were not allowed to vote for their own leaders until 1948 and it was local only. You are acting like those people in the sixties who kept bitching and moaning about how Blacks needed to be grateful for what they had in the Southern states and that Jim Crow was ok....everything works. You got your 'rights'. Blacks could vote but due to many obstacles wound up not being able to. Our problem in Puerto Rico Fin is we can't vote if we remain in our native land. We need to be taken off the reservation to find a place where we can vote. And it is a country that doesn't speak our native language and whom we are a drop in a bucket and are diluted in voting power.


What are you suggesting should be done to correct this. My understanding is only about 25% of the eligible voting population voted for Peurto Rico to become a state. ?

Tainari88 wrote:Entitled are people like Trump---playing golf as the mayor of San Juan is sleeping in a shelter on a cot because her house was flooded too. Carmen Cruz on a cot. Trump in a luxury resort. I don't have to say who is the 'entitled' pendejo. The reality says it all.

How dare you defend a bully and an incompetent man with barely enough intelligence to know when to stop tweeting and play the role of empathetic president? The man fails at almost every part of being a great leader. No self control. Lack of empathy, and lack of self discipline, alienates even people he needs desperately to not alienate to get his half baked agenda to be rammed through a congress and a senate he controls the majority of. He is in deep trouble politically. Once he starts alienating Ryan, McConnell, McCain and every other Republican dude with half a brain in that DC scene...he is not being smart. No deals are gonne be made. He even tweets when it is not recommended he respond. It is not helping the man Fin.

I am an international socialist Fin. I am not from the Right politically. It is not my job to defend Trump, he is a disruptor the anti establishment part of his party elected him. Has nothing to do with my politics. I am not interested in preserving the power structure of either party of the USA. Both are incompetent sellouts at this moment in my humble opinion.

You get all kinds of people in here Fin. Get used to them attacking and fighting it out. You are in an international Politics forum. Not in we all agree forum. That is not the purpose of this scene here.


You say how dare I and then preach to me the make up this board of this board. This board is not necessarily a view of the world, maybe an extreme radical view but I wouldn't call it moderate at all. Watch this video and take your own advice.


how dare him !

#14848704
The reason everything is done very slowly goes back to colonialism. The Puerto Ricans have never had the right to vote. And there's all kinds of fun little paperwork reasons this is excused—just like there was for India not to have Members of Parliament, France to not allow Algeria to have a say in the creation of the Second, Third, Fourth, and Fifth republics; and so on and so forth. There's always a reason presented that basically comes down to "law and order."

I often criticize the Democratic Party for being pussies and use Puerto Rico as an example. It could deliver two safely Democratic senators (and if they did the same with DC, they'd have a perfectly even senate even now after taking an electoral walloping).

But it's a double-edged criticism as it also, I think, clearly demonstrates that the Democrats are still ultimately a racist, institutionalist, and imperialist party. Having a majority Latino (or black) state would be too scary to allow to happen.
#14848742
The reason everything is done very slowly goes back to colonialism. The Puerto Ricans have never had the right to vote. And there's all kinds of fun little paperwork reasons this is excused—just like there was for India not to have Members of Parliament, France to not allow Algeria to have a say in the creation of the Second, Third, Fourth, and Fifth republics; and so on and so forth. There's always a reason presented that basically comes down to "law and order."

I often criticize the Democratic Party for being pussies and use Puerto Rico as an example. It could deliver two safely Democratic senators (and if they did the same with DC, they'd have a perfectly even senate even now after taking an electoral walloping).

But it's a double-edged criticism as it also, I think, clearly demonstrates that the Democrats are still ultimately a racist, institutionalist, and imperialist party. Having a majority Latino (or black) state would be too scary to allow to happen.



TIG, people need to be realistic. If one has a colony and they don't get extremely difficult and challenge you and put some fire under your feet? There is no incentive to 'change'. Unfortunately back in Puerto Rican history in the 1950's the USA started with imperial repressions that were ill advised. They said we could not fly the Puerto Rican flag in Puerto Rico and insisted on all classes taught in public schools be conducted in English only, etc. A bunch of things that did not work for us. So? In the end all the peaceful petitions to not do these things got nowhere. How did the congress change? Suddenly Lolita Lerbron, Luis Cancel Miranda, etc had to go in there and get violent with bullets. Those nationalists got violent with the USA. Suddenly the flag was allowed.

Pedro Albizu Campos the nationalist once famously said in Spanish, " The ears of the Yankees are opened with bullets." If peaceful means are ignored? What is the alternative for desperate people? I would hope with time and circumstance that people learn to respond to other people's needs with some intelligence and some sense of empathy and fairness and not allow it to be violent.

I don't want Puerto Rico to become a state. Or to be a colony. I think the sensible thing is for us to be an independent nation. And have ties to many other nations in an international community of nations that are interdependent and workers are respected and put first in planning for government goals. All this colonial stuff rarely comes out well. It never does in fact.
#14850643
@Oxymoron,

I wouldn't mind keeping them around if we could make some money off of them, but we're too emasculated to do that.....No annexation, either they become profitable for the United States or we cut them loose.
#14850664
Victoribus Spolia wrote:@Oxymoron,

I wouldn't mind keeping them around if we could make some money off of them, but we're too emasculated to do that.....No annexation, either they become profitable for the United States or we cut them loose.


Absolutely, I mean its an American Island where they hardly speak English and have almost no tourism industry... Seems to me they are addicted to Uncle Sams tit. Let them get their "freedom".
#14850672
@Oxymoron,

Maybe we could increase our military presence and subsidize American venture capitalists to invest in manufacturing there and allow full citizenship only to Puerto-Rican women who marry American men as that will help breed out their liberalism (Prima Nocta). :D
#14850693
Victoribus Spolia wrote:@Oxymoron,

Maybe we could increase our military presence and subsidize American venture capitalists to invest in manufacturing there and allow full citizenship only to Puerto-Rican women who marry American men as that will help breed out their liberalism (Prima Nocta). :D


:lol: good idea.
#14850696
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Victoribus Spolia and @Oxymoron

What makes you think that PR is not already making money for the US, which is why the Us wants to keep the status quo?


Well can you please explain how PR makes money for the US? The US government wants to keep the status quo because the Puerto Ricans provide a great voting block for the Democrats.
Last edited by Oxymoron on 11 Oct 2017 17:05, edited 1 time in total.
#14850697
Well can you please explain how PR makes money for the US? The US wants to keep the status quo because the Puerto Ricans provide a great voting block for the Democrats.

Puerto Ricans can't vote in the USA (unless, of course, they move there).
#14850703
Potemkin wrote:Puerto Ricans can't vote in the USA (unless, of course, they move there).


NY, Conn, NJ are filled with Puerto Ricans and all vote Democrat when they are not you know Latin Kinging.

Although the 2010 Census counted the number of Puerto Ricans living in the United States at 4.6 million, estimates in 2012 show the Puerto Rican population to be over 5 million
#14850723
NY, Conn, NJ are filled with Puerto Ricans and all vote Democrat when they are not you know Latin Kinging.

But what has that got to do with whether or not the US should keep PR as a colonial possession? The Ruerto Ricans in Puerto Rico can't vote in US elections; that would only happen once PR became a state. And that, of course, is why it won't become a state. Not ever. The Republicans don't want millions of additional Democrat voters, and the Democrats lack the political courage to press for it.
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