[Oxymoron]

But what has that got to do with whether or not the US should keep PR as a colonial possession? The Ruerto Ricans in Puerto Rico can't vote in US elections; that would only happen once PR became a state. And that, of course, is why it won't become a state. Not ever. The Republicans don't want millions of additional Democrat voters, and the Democrats lack the political courage to press for it.

Keeping them allows for easy movement from PR to the mainland, with auto citizenship and voting rights in the states. The 5 Million number attests to this. The Republicans do not have the political Juice to deny Puerto Rican rights and they do not want to be labeled racists because they are coward cunts. So we are stuck with this drag on the US, I mean its great for the switch blade industry but otherwise not so much.

[Tainari88]

Well can you please explain how PR makes money for the US? The US government wants to keep the status quo because the Puerto Ricans provide a great voting block for the Democrats.

Do you seriously think the USA would have held on to Puerto Rico for 100+ years if someone in power weren't making huge bucks off of our economy? Why do you think Spain wanted to control the island from 1493-1898 and kept a grip on it when all the other Spanish speaking colonies in the New World had slipped out of their control except for the Phillipines (with Aguinaldo) and Cuba with (Jose Marti) already had strong and active independence wars with Spain at that time? Puerto Rico was able to get a form of independence from Spain and the USA saw that chance to gain some territories from a very weak ex Imperial power in chaos at the time. You should study history and not ask these questions that are logical to answer by reading some history.

Without consulting Puerto Rico at all---Spain and the USA signed a Treaty. And Spain 'ceded' as war booty Puerto Rico to the USA. The USA promised us independence but reneged on that promise. Why? Can you answer that one? Or do you want me to give you the answers?

For fast fowarding to the USA PR relationship in 2017--An economist already analyzed how and why the USA makes huge profits off of Puerto Rico. And has done so for over a century. The latest rip off scheme is detailed in a post I did in the North America fora entitled "77 Billion in debt. Who Pays?" Check that out and then come back here and tell me that Puerto Rico is not an attractive investment opportunity for vulture capitalists.

Don't assume that Puerto Rico is some welfare leech that the USA benevolently has on its welfare roles because the American government loves to support Latino Puerto Rican freeloaders out of the goodness of its heart. If you believe that shit I can sell you some Ponzi scheme because you are gullible in the extreme.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Oxymoron

Again, provide evidence that they are not actually giving more money than they receive.

[Oxymoron]

Do you seriously think the USA would have held on to Puerto Rico for 100+ years if someone in power weren't making huge bucks off of our economy? Why do you think Spain wanted to control the island from 1493-1898 and kept a grip on it when all the other Spanish speaking colonies in the New World had slipped out of their control except for the Phillipines (with Aguinaldo) and Cuba with (Jose Marti) already had strong and active independence wars with Spain at that time? Puerto Rico was able to get a form of independence from Spain and the USA saw that chance to gain some territories from a very weak ex Imperial power in chaos at the time. You should study history and not ask these questions that are logical to answer by reading some history.

Without consulting Puerto Rico at all---Spain and the USA signed a Treaty. And Spain 'ceded' as war booty Puerto Rico to the USA. The USA promised us independence but reneged on that promise. Why? Can you answer that one? Or do you want me to give you the answers?

For fast fowarding to the USA PR relationship in 2017--An economist already analyzed how and why the USA makes huge profits off of Puerto Rico. And has done so for over a century. The latest rip off scheme is detailed in a post I did in the North America fora entitled "77 Billion in debt. Who Pays?" Check that out and then come back here and tell me that Puerto Rico is not an attractive investment opportunity for vulture capitalists.

Don't assume that Puerto Rico is some welfare leech that the USA benevolently has on its welfare roles because the American government loves to support Latino Puerto Rican freeloaders out of the goodness of its heart. If you believe that shit I can sell you some Ponzi scheme because you are gullible in the extreme.

So the reasons for Spain wanting to control the Caribbean centuries has no baring today, the reason for the US wanting to push out old powers from the western hemi and expanding naval power has little baring today. I will review your post see what you are talking about, but perhaps you can paraphrase your argument to move this conversation along?

[Oxymoron]

@Oxymoron

Again, provide evidence that they are not actually giving more money than they receive.

Again provide evidence that they are actually giving more money then they receive.

[Pants-of-dog]

Again provide evidence that they are actually giving more money then they receive.

Again, shifting the burden of proof is not an argument.

You made the claim. Now support it.

[Rancid]

Without consulting Puerto Rico at all---Spain and the USA signed a Treaty. And Spain 'ceded' as war booty Puerto Rico to the USA. The USA promised us independence but reneged on that promise. Why? Can you answer that one? Or do you want me to give you the answers?

MOOOOONNNNNEEEEEYYYYY

[Tainari88]

auto citizenship

Oxymoron, everything you write about above indicates to me that you don't know about the history of PR and the USA at all. You have not done any research on it and you are misinformed about a lot of things.

Step by step solution:

Puerto Ricans are USA citizenships by statute. Statutory Citizenship. It is not via naturalization or constitutional citizenship. What are the differences. Automatic citizenship is not our status. Did you know that the USA has different types or classes of USA citizenship and what the differences are? If you admit to me you don't know about that? Then I will break it down for you. But if you continue with this stuff. You are going to be seen as another ignorant Oxymoron. And that is the problem. A lot of ignorance because the USA gov't doesn't go out of its way to advertise all the backstage bad deals it deals in. Let us have some fun? Learn something. What say you.

[Oxymoron]

You made the claim. Now support it.

You made a counter claim, support it.

[Oxymoron]

Oxymoron, everything you write about above indicates to me that you don't know about the history of PR and the USA at all. You have not done any research on it and you are misinformed about a lot of things.

Step by step solution:

Puerto Ricans are USA citizenships by statute. Statutory Citizenship. It is not via naturalization or constitutional citizenship. What are the differences. Automatic citizenship is not our status. Did you know that the USA has different types or classes of USA citizenship and what the differences are? If you admit to me you don't know about that? Then I will break it down for you. But if you continue with this stuff. You are going to be seen as another ignorant Oxymoron. And that is the problem. A lot of ignorance because the USA gov't doesn't go out of its way to advertise all the backstage bad deals it deals in. Let us have some fun? Learn something. What say you.

Do you have a direct argument against what i said? If so present it. If I am wrong, then tell me how I am wrong instead of calling me ignorant.

[Pants-of-dog]

You made a counter claim, support it.

No, I posted a criticism of your post.

Now, seeing as you have no evidence, it is logical to assume that your claim is probably wrong.

[Drlee]

Dear Fellow Right wingers.

You know how you got all up in our faces because some football payers disrespected the flag by kneeling and that this was a direct insult to the men who have died in wars defending the American flag? Well fuck you all for being hypocrites.

Since World War One Puerto Ricans have fought and died for the American Flag. They could not vote but they could sure serve and die. 750 in Korea did not return. Hundreds in Vietnam. In my training group there were a whole load of them who could barely speak English on their way to Vietnam. They serve and die in our recent wars too.

As of 2010 there have been way over 100,000 veterans who have served and well over 1000 who have died fighting for the United States of America.

But you [Zag Edit: Rule 2] are more worried about some NFL pituitary cases "dissing our troops" during a TV show, all the while dissing these Puerto Rican veterans; spitting on their sacrifice by whining about money when their homeland is hurting.

That is the thing about so-called conservatives these days. They have no respect for the military and no respect for OUR troops. Use them up and throw them away. That is the republican way.

[Victoribus Spolia]

Dear Fellow Right wingers.

You know how you got all up in our faces because some football payers disrespected the flag by kneeling and that this was a direct insult to the men who have died in wars defending the American flag? Well fuck you all for being hypocrites.

Since World War One Puerto Ricans have fought and died for the American Flag. They could not vote but they could sure serve and die. 750 in Korea did not return. Hundreds in Vietnam. In my training group there were a whole load of them who could barely speak English on their way to Vietnam. They serve and die in our recent wars too.

As of 2010 there have been way over 100,000 veterans who have served and well over 1000 who have died fighting for the United States of America.

But you fuckers are more worried about some NFL pituitary cases "dissing our troops" during a TV show, all the while dissing these Puerto Rican veterans; spitting on their sacrifice by whining about money when their homeland is hurting.

That is the thing about so-called conservatives these days. They have no respect for the military and no respect for OUR troops. Use them up and throw them away. That is the republican way.

Oh My.....I think i'm getting choked up....really, I can't control my tears.

Who the fuck are you talking to you with that red herring? I don't give two shits what the PRs did in any particular war, if there country is a financial burdern that problem must be understood in relation to American foreign and domestic policy on its own merits... I don't give two shits if Illinois gave us great leaders and heroes in the past, I'm all for dissolving them as an independent state or commonwealth if they default on their debts and screw over the American taxpayer through misallocation of Federal funds.

[Zag Edit: Rule 2]

[Victoribus Spolia]

No, I posted a criticism of your post.

Now, seeing as you have no evidence, it is logical to assume that your claim is probably wrong.

How is that logical? What inferential necessity exists in such a claim?

[Victoribus Spolia]

@Pants-of-dog, @Oxymoron,

Proof That Puerto Rico is a nasty drain, and not the good kind (like a testicle drain):

"There’s no way for Puerto Rico to be able to rebuild, let alone recover, unless the debt is canceled," said Eric LeCompte, executive director of Jubilee USA Network, a religious coalition that's fighting for Puerto Rico debt relief. "Fortunately for Puerto Rico that process is in place."

The process looks a lot like bankruptcy. Puerto Rico, which filed for the equivalent of federal bankruptcy protection in May, owes $74 billion in debts and more than $53 billion in unfunded pensions."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... 731091001/

"While Puerto Rico’s political leaders almost doubled the debt since 2006, proceeds were often used to keep the bureaucracy afloat, paper over deficits or finance projects that did little to pull the economy from recession. After investors stopped buying the U.S. territory’s bonds, agencies warned that the electricity and water systems were falling into decay. Investments in roads, schools, utilities and other public projects slid to $906 million last year from $2.4 billion in 2012, according to the Government Development Bank." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -maria-hit

[Wellsy]

For fast fowarding to the USA PR relationship in 2017--An economist already analyzed how and why the USA makes huge profits off of Puerto Rico. And has done so for over a century. The latest rip off scheme is detailed in a post I did in the North America fora entitled "77 Billion in debt. Who Pays?" Check that out and then come back here and tell me that Puerto Rico is not an attractive investment opportunity for vulture capitalists.

WHAT IS ALL THAT 77 BILLION DOLLAR DEBT THAT PUERTO RICO HOLDS ALL ABOUT? I WANT TO KNOW! WHO PAYS?
Santander Becomes Target of Puerto Rican Anger Over Bond Losses
Investors Continue to Pursue Puerto Rico Bond Fraud Recovery From Santander Securities

[Pants-of-dog]

How is that logical? What inferential necessity exists in such a claim?

Maybe you guys are right and the US gives more money than it receives from PR, but the cited evidence seems to day that PR pays more in interest in debt that it receives.

[Drlee]

Well. I see we have a new Rush Limbaugh clone. Big on bombast and short on facts. Goodie.

[Tainari88]

Wellsy is correct. Not only that Santander and USB are not the only ones who funded the rip off forcing the Puerto Rican government to pay back the debts by closing schools en masse to the tune of 140+ public school closures, laying off mass amounts of government employees and cutting most funding for hospitals. Carmen Yulin Cruz has requested the refunding of $350 million dollars that the city and county of San Juan had to give to PROMESA to service the debt. This caused the city not to have funds for fixing up the sewer lines, upgrading the electricity lines and etc. They (the vulture banks) were squeezing Puerto Rico dry. And people in the mainland don't do a damn thing about it because Puerto Ricans have NO voting reps in congress and no senators who can vote and put on political pressure. No political pressure no voice, no voice? No action. That is colonialism for you.

Pants of Dog said: Maybe you guys are right and the US gives more money than it receives from PR, but the cited evidence seems to day that PR pays more in interest in debt that it receives.

I am not sure if you understand Spanish Pants of Dog but if you do a guy named Jesus who's nickname in Puerto Rico is called "Boricuazo" went on Puerto Rican television a while ago explaining in detail how the USA mainland banks and investment firms make huge profits off of Puerto Rico and the economy. It includes the Jones Act but it also breaks down how the profits are broken down in a very systemic way. Do you want me to post it? I did not do so because I think most of the readers in PoFo don't understand Spanish. Maybe they can hit translator in youtube? Get it translated. I have seen so many poor translations online that I am loathe to put in videos in another language besides English in here. But if you speak it? And understand it? I can do it for you? Let me know.

Victorius dude this is it. The rest is for you. I don't think you care about Puerto Rico or if we all die of hunger and thrist and some bacterial infection. So why even bother with you?

Even the most conservative party in Puerto Rico who the Governor Ricardo Rosello represents are not part of the USA Mainland's Republican party because the Republicans are highly unlikely to approve Puerto Rican statehood. It is inconvenient and it will cause a rush of infrastructure investment that they are not willing to put forth.

As for Victor etc man who has posted in my thread--The USA has enough problem with terrorism dude. If you piss off enough Puerto Ricans with your racist dumb commentary and your little fascist friends put on the pressure? You will get another set of "Puerto Rican" nationalists and even statehood freaks mad at the Americans for not wanting to let them into their little exclusive statehood club and you will wind up with more domestic terrorism. Ugly ones at that. And it won't be some weird alienated white man in Mesquite, Nevada. It will be an organized group after some blood for being a bunch of haters. You got problems with your incompetent, moronic, unstable and unraveling fool of a president. Don't put more fuel on the fire. Have a nice day!!

[Pants-of-dog]

@Tainari88

Please provide a link to the video you mentioned. Thank you,