Puerto Rico's Relationship with the USA and the Jones Act and Hurricane Maria - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14853352
59 More wrote:@Potemkin

The american revolution was the worse thing that could have happen in human history. So many natives/Blacks, hell nature could have been spared; If those bastard founding devils got lynched.


What you don't understand about the nature of man, and how history has progressed is this:

If it wasn't the Americans, it would be someone else.
#14853380
Tainari88 wrote:Fin, what are you asking? Didn't you read about how Puerto Rico was billed for their borrowing for government spending out of control? At exhorbitant rates of interest. The PNP ex governor Luis Fortuno was the man in charge at the time. The PNP is a total colonial puppet party that runs around in bed with shady banks and investors from the states who want a bunch of triple fudge tax free bonds and etc. It is effectively like taking out billions of dollars in loans from a payday outlet in the USA. You wind up paying a crazy rate of interest. I already put in that info. So did Wellsy the Aussie student who posted the other link to my thread about the debt. See it. Pants here translated the Spanish video with the Puerto Rican economist breaking down how the USA makes money off of Puerto Rico.


I think Dr Lees post ( the next one after you replied to me) articulates this better than I can.

Tainari88 wrote:About my hatred? I don't hate anyone. I do hate injustice. And to think the USA has been just with the Puerto Rican people is for fools. And I don't consider myself a fool.


I read all your posts on this thread as Dr Lee noted you certainly have a chip on your shoulder about America and Trump I’m not sure why you take such offense to my observation of this.

Tainari88 wrote:Be just. And the resentment will 'disappear'. That is my reply to you Fin. You know the Golden Rule Fin? Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you? Can you apply that to the Puerto Ricans? Or are in such a fog of arrogance that you naturally think us not your equals and incapable of doing this or that?
I don’t know how you can come up with this from my posts on this subject you don’t know me and I certainly have not said anything disparaging against PR and its people. Again, for anybody to read your posts on this thread in their entirety it is very logical to say you are angry and is not a stretch to say you have some hatred towards America and President Trump. I’m not saying you are not allowed to have some disproval but like Dr Lee said (inferred) you make some very good points but they are getting lost in the anger you project and its o0ffense for you to call people racist just because they respectfully challenging your position.

Let me play devil's advocate? I come to your state of which you are a resident. I tell you.... ok I am going to make you a part of the great state__________(Fin's state), your state won't have the right to vote in USA elections, you won't have voting senators or congress people even though your population is greater than 21 other states of the union. Your men will be eligible for the draft and can die in the wars created by congress....but you have no influence there to address your concerns. You shall pay taxes that are higher averaging between 20-40% than other states every time you have to import food from other states of the union but your own native crops, goods and services are not allowed equal access. And---Fin you speak English. The rest of the states don't. So? Stop speaking English and being an American, that is not acceptable.

In order for you to be part of our great country got to give up your own culture in the process....after all it is not as good as ours....and also, you need to be GRATEFUL for this deal. Great deal isn't it? Kneel and kiss my feet and then kiss my ass for my benevolence Fin.

Why don't you like that deal? Are you full of hatred? ;)



There you go you lost me again and any good point you just made by lowering yourself to the race card and projecting your hate as mine, just because anytime someone even dare ask a question. My legitimate question was a serious attempt to move past this history where PR got screwed ( I get it) , I was more interested in your ideas how PR can handle things going forward.



Tainari88 wrote:Fires in California, and Harvey, Irma, Jose, Maria, etc etc. That is not normal. That is out of the normal. But? No one wants to talk about climate change and the problems that is going to cause a lot of places. Droughts, earthquakes, loss of potable water sources in times of trouble because many easily accesible water systems are contaminated and polluted and not fit for mass human or animal consumption. And the climate denial folk like Trump wanting to destroy the EPA and other 'left' departments in the gov't. ]


I find that ridiculous. PR is an Island in the middle of hurricane alley. This is an entirely different tangential discussion and for lack of better words I more than likely won’t agree with your position on that subject and that will trigger some racial response from you towards me. I think you have a lot of points but you are losing me in this victim approach and blaming Trump ( I get it you don’t like him) and racial outburst to anybody that dare question you.


Tainari88 wrote:Don't you know Pants, Puerto Ricans are in the top ten of the most consumers of USA goods in the world. They have been making money off of us for years. We are not allowed to buy cheaper petrol from South America. Even though it is far closer to us and far better price. We can't trade with Mexico, China, Cuba, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina, Chile, Panama, even neighboring islands like Jamaica, Dominican Republic, etc because the USA won't allow it. We can't sell our pineapples in the mainland. It competes with Dole pineapples from Hawaii. Etc. A lot of strangling restrictions. But Fin doesn't see it. He just thinks we are what? Burdens without any value? That is what a lot of foolish people think. They don't study us at all. I happen to think it is because we are supposedly not important.



Lol. It if funny. USA Supreme Court law is 1/9th Puerto Rican. Sonia Sotomayor. Who's parents were Puerto Rican. We are a tiny place. We produce a lot of 'famous' people for our size. NASA has a big group of Puerto Ricans in the engineering departments there.

But we are shit in some of these people's mentalities....I wonder why? What is your theory Pants?

The following is for Fin:

Fin, I think I am going to have to ask you something did you know that all of these NASA astronauts, engineers and scientists were Puerto Ricans (either by descent or born in Puerto Rico?) or did you think we are an island full of total dummies? Because the patronizing tones you use with me lead me to believe you think we are what? I am really sick and tired of stateside people coming in to topics and assuming that what you see on the surface of these 'small' and supposedly 'insignificant' places there is nothing of value. All human beings of every nationality, creed and race have innate value and potential. ALL OF US. And talented people. I think you need to start respecting that fact.

Read this and come back here and tell me that if we can produce people who know how to navigate the stars that we can't produce people who can solve our gov't and economic woes? I have faith in Puerto Ricans.

You should too. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... ce_Program




I want you to go through my posts on POFO and you tell me where I deserve this meltdown and racial tirade and personal attacks of yours. The few sentences I wrote in this thread and my interactions with you don’t deserve whatever deep seated issues that obviously you feel the need to vent on me. You have no idea who I am and what my heart is. I know people from many cultures I even know Puerto Ricans and Cubans, as I said earlier I grew up outside of Hartford CT and I live in the hurricane alley of South West FL. I have never come across the anger in any of them, and the likes you have displayed towards me and people on this thread, many who are just interested in having an open discussion with you. I would further venture to say that some of them would be embarrassed by your words.

I’m a forgiving person and understand you are probably very frustrated with what’s going on in PR right now and this personal assault on my character is just that, frustration. I would like to be able to discuss issues with you in the future but if you call me a racist just because I disagree with you then you can just get bent, you don’t know me. I invite you to be open and to have good and cordial back and forth with me. I cannot promise to agree you on every subject but I’ll at least respect your opinion but right now I don't have any respect towards you nor do you deserve any of it.
#14853593
I read all your posts on this thread as Dr Lee noted you certainly have a chip on your shoulder about America and Trump I’m not sure why you take such offense to my observation of this.


Fin, I care deeply about what happens to Puerto Rico. Why? Because I was born there and grew up partly there and because when I think of Puerto Rico it is not some 'intellectual' exercise of 'this issue is to be thought about dispassionately'. Maybe that is the Anglo way. It is not mine. You should study our Latin American political leaders on both the Left and Right. Nothing dispassionate about our discourse. It is our style. I am never going to be with an Anglo style. If that 'turns you off'? Oh well. I am not a golden coin to be liked by everyone in the world. It doesn't work that way.

Fin for me? Who is Borinquen for me? It is quite simple. It is my grandmother's face. She was born in 1902 and died in her nineties. She would take care of me when my parents were off to the university studying and working at the same time. Puerto Rico for me is summers with my favorite cousins and my friends and my Aunt running around. Who loved doing yoga and was a vegetarian and a fiery personality. It is dancing in the cafeteria mambos with professors who taught me World History, Western Civ I and II, Physical Science, Social Science, Economics, etc. all of them together singing and dancing and having fun with all of their students. Music in the streets at all hours and at all times, and people who love LIFE. In every way. I loved my years in Puerto Rico. Critical ones. Where I met my husband and got married and so on....it is not for dispassionate discourse when she is suffering. And the suffering is not of our making. It is outside of our control. We were never given the chance to RUN our OWN society. Every time we tried we were met with violence or jail. Every single time. Why? Don't we have a right to be a free people like all the other countries who are out there shaping their own futures? It is about simple justice. What is just. That is all.

This is not chip on the shoulder Fin. It is about injustice that has been ignored and unaddressed for a very very long time. Do you think I came into this Puerto Rico topic thread without years and years of dealing with the injustices and without on the ground action? No, I have not. I have years and years of dealing with internal and very contentious Puerto Rican politics. Both on the island and stateside and even in Latin American countries that are not the USA or Puerto Rico and who are curious as can be about what the hell is happening with us....

Ironically the longest and most in depth questions I get about Puerto Rican politics in my lifetime has been by Mexicans in Mexican cities, trying to figure out why Puerto Ricans still speak Spanish and not English massively? And why Boricuas are USA citizens with some second class status. The USA doesn't advertise with a bullhorn to the rest of the world....hey, World People, we have all kinds of weird and strange USA citizenship status going on--because we believe in screwing people over from their basic rights--like a right to have senators and congresspeople if you are a citizen. Mexicans find it fascinating...mainly a study in deep hypocrisy and they ask me questions in Spanish for HOURS. It is very interesting that most mainland people just don't care about it. Why is that? Interesting premise.

I speak with people from all nationalities. Japan, China, African nations, and they all ask me very interesting questions....Like, "Why do Americans advertise equal rights for all and they don't give Puerto Ricans like you the same rights if you are born in Puerto Rico? What does statutory citizenship mean versus constitutional?" Most of them read up on it...and then they come back and say, "That is two faced, unfair, weird and hypocritical. Why doesn't the USA Congress deal with a solution?" Another set of questions and answers.

People in the USA need to stop believing in the Power of Myth and BULLSHIT about justice and equality that doesn't pan out in real life because the reality is that the hubris stuff doesn't work. It leads to problems.
#14853623
@Tainari88

If you are not intellectual enough to understand you were way out of line with the angry rhetoric and write five paragraphs justifying your bigoted and racial rant/tirade, towards mine and others character, I don't have any respect for you. I suggest you are actually very bad for the PR people and should not speak on their behalf no one is listening to you, you are the problem. Closed minded.
#14853628
Finfinder wrote:@Tainari88

If you are not intellectual enough to understand you were way out of line with the angry rhetoric and write five paragraphs justifying your bigoted and racial rant/tirade, towards mine and others character, I don't have any respect for you. I suggest you are actually very bad for the PR people and should not speak on their behalf no one is listening to you, you are the problem. Closed minded.
Finfinder wrote:@Tainari88

If you are not intellectual enough to understand you were way out of line with the angry rhetoric and write five paragraphs justifying your bigoted and racial rant/tirade, towards mine and others character, I don't have any respect for you. I suggest you are actually very bad for the PR people and should not speak on their behalf no one is listening to you, you are the problem. Closed minded.


No Fin, everyone can tell who is the bigot here. And it never is I with folks who don't concede valid points because it comes from people they never respected in the first place. You are not fooling anyone. Only trying to save your own foolish pride Fin. ;)
#14853630
Finfinder wrote:@Tainari88

If you are not intellectual enough to understand you were way out of line with the angry rhetoric and write five paragraphs justifying your bigoted and racial rant/tirade, towards mine and others character, I don't have any respect for you. I suggest you are actually very bad for the PR people and should not speak on their behalf no one is listening to you, you are the problem. Closed minded.
Finfinder wrote:@Tainari88

If you are not intellectual enough to understand you were way out of line with the angry rhetoric and write five paragraphs justifying your bigoted and racial rant/tirade, towards mine and others character, I don't have any respect for you. I suggest you are actually very bad for the PR people and should not speak on their behalf no one is listening to you, you are the problem. Closed minded.


No Fin, everyone can tell who is the bigot here. And it never is I with folks who don't concede valid points because it comes from people they never respected in the first place. You are not fooling anyone. Only trying to save your own foolish pride Fin. ;)

I can argue with you about which parts of what you write are very bigoted. But you are too thin skinned for that. You get all hot and bothered about 'angry' rhetoric. Address the points you disagree with or just flee the thread to save your lack of ability to deal with valid points. It is up to you. No me importa.
#14853656
Tainari88 wrote:No Fin, everyone can tell who is the bigot here. And it never is I with folks who don't concede valid points because it comes from people they never respected in the first place. You are not fooling anyone. Only trying to save your own foolish pride Fin. ;)

I can argue with you about which parts of what you write are very bigoted. But you are too thin skinned for that. You get all hot and bothered about 'angry' rhetoric. Address the points you disagree with or just flee the thread to save your lack of ability to deal with valid points. It is up to you. No me importa.


go for it ! post up my history on POFO you won't because you can't ..... you have a bad attitude its not helping your cause and has nothing to do with what you look like race creed or color.

Tainari88 wrote:Fin. You know the Golden Rule Fin? Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you? Can you apply that to the Puerto Ricans? Or are in such a fog of arrogance that you naturally think us not your equals and incapable of doing this or that?
tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pue ... ce_Program


you obviously know nothing about the golden rule .......... enjoy your angry bitch session I still don't regret putting my money where my mouth is

http://www.miamiherald.com/entertainmen ... 70431.html

Puerto Rico is reeling after Hurricane Maria. So these pop stars united in Miami to help
BY MONIQUE O. MADAN
[email protected]
OCT 14, 2017 10:03 PM

It was the concert that brought everyone together.

Whether that be ex-husband-and-wife Marc Anthony and Jennifer Lopez, or rival television broadcasters Univision and Telemundo.

A mega benefit concert dubbed “One Voice: Somos Live! A Concert For Disaster Relief,” took place Saturday night in Miami and Los Angeles. The telethon and concert was held to raise funds for disaster relief in Puerto Rico, as well as the southern United States, Mexico, and other areas of the Caribbean impacted by recent natural disasters.

According to Forbes, it was the first time in Spanish-language television history that Telemundo joined forces with rival Univision. Both companies broadcasted the event simultaneously.
http://www.miamiherald.com/entertainmen ... 70431.html
#14853667
@Finfinder

The logical fallacy you are committing is called tone policing. You have decided that someone else is wrong not because of their argument but becuase you have an emotional reaction to how it was presented.

It would be like saying 2+2=4 is wrong because your grade two teacher screamed it at you.
#14853674
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Finfinder

The logical fallacy you are committing is called tone policing. You have decided that someone else is wrong not because of their argument but becuase you have an emotional reaction to how it was presented.

It would be like saying 2+2=4 is wrong because your grade two teacher screamed it at you.


Not at all, I object to being called a racist because there is literally no evidence of it and its just lazy way to argue. I wasn't the one setting the tone and I'm not the the only one who commented on this. Its clear the OP doesn't want to address the future but only rant about the past. Are you the new hall monitor? Did you donate to PR? I did.
#14853737
Not at all, I object to being called a racist because there is literally no evidence of it and its just lazy way to argue. I wasn't the one setting the tone and I'm not the the only one who commented on this. Its clear the OP doesn't want to address the future but only rant about the past. Are you the new hall monitor? Did you donate to PR? I did.

All Tainari did was to reverse the situation as a thought-experiment. How would you feel if Puerto Rico had imposed the political settlement on one of the states of the US that the US imposed on Puerto Rico? For some reason, you didn't seem at all to like the fact that she did this. It should be obvious that you would feel angry and resentful if any part of the US had been treated as Puerto Rico has been treated, and that you would be objectively justified in feeling angry and resentful. Why are Tainari's feelings as a Puerto Rican patriot not valid? Why must she pretend to be dispassionate and unconcerned simply to spare your feelings? :eh:
#14854005
All Tainari did was to reverse the situation as a thought-experiment. How would you feel if Puerto Rico had imposed the political settlement on one of the states of the US that the US imposed on Puerto Rico? For some reason, you didn't seem at all to like the fact that she did this. It should be obvious that you would feel angry and resentful if any part of the US had been treated as Puerto Rico has been treated, and that you would be objectively justified in feeling angry and resentful. Why are Tainari's feelings as a Puerto Rican patriot not valid? Why must she pretend to be dispassionate and unconcerned simply to spare your feelings? :eh:


I don't have to do a damn thing Fin thinks I have to do. I am not from his life experience, I am not of his sex, I am not of his ethnic group, or his class background and I certainly don't owe him anything. I am a native born Puerto Rican, and the only people I need to worry about their opinion about me, are the people who know me and love me, and care about me, and my own people :lol: . Not his offense to my 'tone'. He would never survive Latin American politics. Even the Right wingers in our ranks are passionate people with a lot more leadership abilities and colorful phrases than the boring robots that just obey out of fear of losing their seats one sees in that Republican repulsive party.



The thought experiment as you say Potemkin is quite effective. If you take the conditions a lot of our Latin American poor have to cope with day in and day out? And you place these little snowflake sensitive rich white men with privileges and they got to live those conditions? They would be screaming bloody murder day and night. Blacks. Latinos, the poor all over the world have to cope with some heavy difficulties. And they got to be strong and resilient and be able to solve problems or perish. It is the only way. One of the few advantages of being dirt poor is having to learn to stop thinking you are the center of the world and that a Golf Trophy has value when you can use a plate of rice and beans instead. You don't live with false illusions of grandeur and life starts teaching you to appreciate the basics in life. Like a roof over your head, water in your mouth, and food in your belly and being able to grateful for what you have today and not how you can lord it over the most vulnerable of the world and live with the illusion that you are superior because if you have more money or mundane power it must mean you are better. No, you are not. You are really just thinking life owes you something. When it doesn't. Mother nature is not going to care if she decides she is going to hit Fin's hometown with a tornado. Or he has a fire and loses it all, and or some catastrophe befalls his bank account, (the true tragedy in life for the Conservative thinkers), and then he goes and tries to prove he cares by donating while he feels Puerto Ricans are not his equals as he does it? Where is that progress? You need to LIVE the value of EQUALITY. Live the damn thing in your head and in your heart and in your life! Not just your percentage of a very generous income. All this time he had to build compassion, love and caring for the 'inferior' types...he could have spent building up friends with a sense of equality instead. That might be pre-disposed to help him if he does take an economic hit someday. I aint interested in lording it over people. I just want to love them and care about them. But I won't stand for injustice Potemkin. Not today, tomorrow or ever. That is helping the crap that is bad in the world remain the same. Do nothing? Change nothing.

But? If you choose to rant and rave against a people because they don't fall into your preferred tone? How is that superior?

He did not fool anyone. How can he? ;) Always a pleasure Potemkin.
#14854202
At least Puerto Rico is getting some help from Canada, even if Trump is giving them the cold shoulder.

Quebec lumber and supplies headed for Puerto Rico and southern U.S.
Companies on Quebec's North Shore sending aid to devastated zones
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... -1.4315203
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