Mexico Elects a Socialist in a Landslide - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14929380
Mexico's Lopez Obrador Wins Presidential Vote as Rivals Concede
Generally, situations like this have a happy honeymoon for a year or two; then, things tend to go to shit. Sometimes very quickly. Sometimes slowly. There was quite a lot of celebration in Brazil when Lula da Silva was elected. Then, things started going South for Brazil, but somewhat slowly. By contrast, there was similar fanfare when Hugo Chavez won in Venezuela. There, the country went from high inequality and a burgeoning economy to an economic crash where basic necessities cannot be met. It's so bad that it's cheaper for Venezuela to import energy than extract it from their enormous wealth of natural resources.

This is the first time Mexico has elected a socialist since they started pulling out of their third world status.

Lopez Obrador has promised to govern as a pragmatist. Still, his procession toward victory has alarmed many investors and business leaders, who worry that he’ll roll back privatization of the energy industry and push the country into debt by spending more on social programs.

It will be interesting to watch. People who do not understand geography do not understand why countries like the United States, United Kingdom or Germany have significant success where other countries struggle. Geography has a lot to do with it. Many countries adopt socialism--whether mixed or otherwise--and do not have a tax base to support it. Mexico doesn't have a sufficient tax base to support a massive welfare state, and an attempt to erect one is likely to lead to what has always happened when tried: massive debt followed by hyperinflation. I think long term, this means that the peso will eventually be a good short.

Currency markets have had plenty of time to prepare for an AMLO win, and the peso extended gains after concessions by Meade and Anaya removed the risk of a dispute over the count. It was up 1.2 percent to 19.68 per dollar in overnight trading at 8:55 p.m. in Mexico City.

The currency has declined almost 10 percent since mid-April, as Lopez Obrador’s poll lead widened and trade tensions with the U.S. mounted, though it’s still among the best emerging-market performers this year.

Keep an eye to the long term here. I'm betting this isn't going to be good for the peso.

“We need a complete transformation,” said Sergio Oceransky, 45, as he voted at a polling station in central Mexico City. “We’re experiencing a tremendous political crisis that’s no longer sustainable.”

On the campaign trail, voters cited plenty of reasons to kick out the governing class. Many said physical security was their top concern. A decade-long war on drug cartels has pushed the murder rate to record levels.

While I think socialism is going to ultimately be worse for Mexico economically (don't worry, they will be sure to blame the United States for what is to come), I do sympathize with the electorate in throwing out their establishment. I enjoy seeing that happen in the US too.
#14929416
blackjack21 wrote: Mexico doesn't have a sufficient tax base to support a massive welfare state


Mexico is the lowest taxed country in the OECD, so it could fund a lot more social programs if it raised taxes. But it can't raise taxes as long as the entire developing world is locked into the neoliberal race to the bottom. Countries like Mexico are pretty much at the mercy of the global neoliberal financial cartel.

and an attempt to erect one is likely to lead to what has always happened when tried: massive debt followed by hyperinflation.


What Chavez did in Venezuela was just ignorant, Mexico doesn't have to follow that path. Mexico could invest in infrastructure and increase social spending gradually over time as the economy grows with increasing development. It could also just start nationalizing industries without taking on a lot of new debt but that'll lead to capital flight, economic civil war, and foreign sanctions.

If the working classes were as dedicated to undermining capitalism as the ruling class is to undermining socialism, capitalism wouldn't work either. The capitalism works because the working classes are weak and stupid.
#14929417
Capitalism works because it forces us to get off our lazy asses. Socialism doesn’t work because it provides benefits for sitting on your ass. I prefer a great deal of socialism, but we need different humans apparently for it to work. You give me the option to work at $1200 a month or sit on my ass for $1000 per month, I will sit on my ass.
#14929419
Jesus H Christ, @One Degree You really have no fucking clue how socialism works, do you? :knife:

Socialism isn't about being on Welfare or some such nonsense. It's about everyone contributing to the welfare of everyone. USA has socialist elements.

The list is quite long...
Image

It's too bad the USA doesn't think Healthcare should be on this list, like the other 1st world countries. That said, no country WITH universal healthcare, has ever tried to repeal it.
#14929420
Sivad wrote:Did Hannity tell you that?


Probably not since I an only vaguely aware of who he is. I prefer print to visual media so I have no idea what most talking heads are saying.
#14929421
Yes, @One Degree you only listen to the biggest talking head around... Trump. :knife:

Socialism isn't a bad thing. Saying it's like Communism is what ignorant Americans do.

Socialism works well with Capitalism and Democracy.
#14929422
Godstud wrote:Yes, @One Degree you only listen to the biggest talking head around... Trump. :knife:


Yeah, I think it is a good idea to know what the President is saying.
#14929426
One Degree wrote:Probably not since I an only vaguely aware of who he is. I prefer print to visual media so I have no idea what most talking heads are saying.


It doesn't matter what source of bullshit propaganda you derive your ignorant opinions from, the point is that it's stupid.
#14929427
Sivad wrote:It doesn't matter what source of bullshit propaganda you derive your ignorant opinions from, the point is that it's stupid.


That’s not much of an argument.
#14929429
Good, I hope Lopez Obrador hates Trump enough to ask Putin to build a Russian military base in Mexico. I'm sure Putin would love a way of responding to any Nato troops moving into Poland or Romania. He could also ask the Chinese to build port facilities for double use.

It's time to start containing the Yankee imperialists. Appeasement won't work with Trump.
#14929431
Atlantis wrote:Good, I hope Lopez Obrador hates Trump enough to ask Putin to build a Russian military base in Mexico. I'm sure Putin would love a way of responding to any Nato troops moving into Poland or Romania. He could also ask the Chinese to build port facilities for double use.

It's time to start containing the Yankee imperialists. Appeasement won't work with Trump.


Probably not your best idea. Trump is not Kennedy.
#14929432
One Degree wrote:That’s not much of an argument.


Don't need much of an argument with your nonsense. You don't know jack shit about socialism, the welfare state, or even capitalism for that matter. You're just regurgitating some lame bit of punditry that's nothing more than empty rhetoric.
#14929434
Sivad wrote:Don't need much of an argument with your nonsense. You don't know jack shit about socialism, the welfare state, or even capitalism for that matter. You're just regurgitating some lame bit of punditry that's nothing more than empty rhetoric.


Uh huh, and you are spouting great wisdom? :). Why are you so bent out of shape that I believe most people need pressured to work? Seems a silly thing to defend.
#14929438
One Degree wrote:Uh huh, and you are spouting great wisdom? :).


I'm stating simple honest truths that are plainly evident to anyone who's not completely full of shit.

Why are you so bent out of shape that I believe most people need pressured to work? Seems a silly thing to defend.


Most people don't need to be pressured to work, most people work their asses off regardless of the economic system. Socialism isn't giving people free shit for nothing, it's people demanding a fair return on their labor.
#14929439
@One Degree Your belief that people need pressure to work, is simply a belief. Do you have ANY facts to support this?

I know a great many people who enjoy work, if they are doing what they like, or there is good pay, or other benefits. We do, after all, mostly do not work for free, so you can't say there isn't any incentive to work. Incentive is not "pressure".
#14929444
One Degree wrote:https://returntonow.net/2017/09/22/85-people-hate-jobs-gallup-poll-says/

85% of workers worldwide hate their jobs according to Gallup.

Human labour under capitalism is, as Marx pointed out, alienated labour. Instead of being experienced as the main purpose of a productive human life and as the main means of living a fulfilled human life within human society, it is experienced as unpleasant drudgery and a form of enslavement to an external force over which the workers have no control - capital. Of course workers hate their jobs in a capitalist system.
#14929445
Potemkin wrote:Human labour under capitalism is, as Marx pointed out, alienated labour. Instead of being experienced as the main purpose of a productive human life and as the main means of living a fulfilled human life within human society, it is experienced as unpleasant drudgery and a form of enslavement to an external force over which the workers have no control - capital. Of course workers hate their jobs in a capitalist system.

Replacing paid labour with slave labour is hardly an improvement, that's all you get with communism. Getting paid is the one thing which makes unpleasant work worth doing.

The communist wants to fix "wage slavery" by chopping off the wages part and doubling down on the slavery part.
Last edited by SolarCross on 02 Jul 2018 13:34, edited 2 times in total.

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