[Tainari88]

I hate all the bullshit Tucker spouts. Notice his face, he never thought of that explanation before because most of those Fox hosts never think about what happens on the Latin American presidents' side of the issues. It is always some Yankee exceptionalism perspective. This is why Latin America needs decent wages and a lowering of crime. The USA has to stop taking illegal illicit drugs like there is no tomorrow and cracking down on wealthy corporations wanting to pay shit for wages and make more profits off the backs of American and Latin American workers.

Nayib Bukele is being paid attention to by Mexicans who hate drug dealer gangs. Bukele is going to get a lot of attention if he makes things happen for his Salvadorans.

[Tainari88]

A good way to keep corruption at bay:

[wat0n]

Hold on, do you like Bukele?

[Tainari88]

Hold on, do you like Bukele?

Bukele, is the voters choice and it was a fair election. The salvadoreños chose him. And all I have heard and seen of President Nayib Bukele is about a very honest, upright, consistent, well informed and well educated leader. I do not share his political philosophy. So what? If he can get progress with those gangs done, and a better job situation for the people of El Salvador and keep many Salvadoreños hopeful for their futures? He is going to be doing a good job.

I really liked his speech to the security forces. Excellent speech. He wants to end the violence, the corruption and the mass exodus out of El Salvador. He talks with good statistics and frankly I do not think he is in it for the money. He is not greedy.

The Salvadorans are very religious people, and hard working, humble and extremely warm and nice. I know a lot of them. Just because one percent of them are into gangs does not mean all of them are criminals. My Uncle Freddy married a woman from El Salvador. They also named senior housing place and a tutoring for youth place after my mother and are always going for human rights.

I ate a lot of pupusas in my day.

Bukele is young and honest, educated and dedicated. It is a vast improvement. The USA created a civil war in the 1980s and it was horrible. They killed Bishop Romero in front of the church. That School of the Americas trained those killers. Unleashed a civil war. People are sick of all that violence. They have a real need for peace and jobs and stability and real security that can help them solve and combat crime.

What is there about Nayib that is bad? He is not a white liberal from the USA. None of the Central Americans are like that. They are religious and family oriented in the extreme, love family life, work hard, and are always wanting to get community work done for the benefit of children and the elderly. The women are super nice, polite, and very pretty. There is a lot to like about El Salvador. The wars, strife, and fighting are over. They came together and the Far Right does not want more violence and neither does the Far Left. They chose Nayib because he is focused on the issues that are important for his people. Me cae bien el presidente de El Salvador.

Yes, there are going to be people not liking the mass arrests and the amount of gang members arrested. But you have to see that those gang issues were from Los Angeles, California. It is blowback from the Civil War from the eighties. The gangs grew from the entire gang scene in L.A. Now it is an international organization.

They created tremendous problems in San Salvador and in other townships in El Salvador. If that would have been continued without a plan to crack down on them? Hundreds of thousands of salvadoreños dead and or killed and women raped with impunity and so on. It was really bad. The worst.

Listen to how he behaves. Does not talk about himself. He is interested in human civilization. He gives logical answers. The behavior is very important. The behavior is important in all leaders.

[MadMonk]

What is there about Nayib that is bad? He is not a white liberal from the USA. None of the Central Americans are like that.

-----------

Yes, there are going to be people not liking the mass arrests and the amount of gang members arrested.

I'm going to echo wat0n here and be mildly suprised. I'm not saying Bukele is wrong with what he has done, but his 'War on Crime' makes Nixon and Reagan look like pushovers. Mass arrests, increasing prison sentences and constructing new mega-prisons. Not usually the type you side with, but El Salvador has long been one of the most dangerous places outside of actual warzones. If he's successful, he'll likely be re-elected.

[Beren]

Is he your type, @Tainari88?

[wat0n]

Bukele, is the voters choice and it was a fair election. The salvadoreños chose him. And all I have heard and seen of President Nayib Bukule is about a very honest, upright, consistent, well informed and well educated leader. I do not share his political philosophy. So what? If he can get progress with those gangs done, and a better job situation for the people of El Salvador and keep many Salvadoreños hopeful for their futures? He is going to be doing a good job.

I really liked his speech to the security forces. Excellent speech. He wants to end the violence, the corruption and the mass exodus out of El Salvador. He talks with good statistics and frankly I do not think he is in it for the money. He is not greedy.

The Salvadorans are very religious people, and hard working, humble and extremely warm and nice. I know a lot of them. Just because one percent of them are into gangs does not mean all of them are criminals. My Uncle Freddy married a woman from El Salvador. They also named senior housing place and a tutoring for youth place after my mother and are always going for human rights.

I ate a lot of pupusas in my day.

Bukule is young and honest, educated and dedicated. It is a vast improvement. The USA created a civil war in the 1980s and it was horrible. They killed Bishop Romero in front of the church. That School of the Americas trained those killers. Unleashed a civil war. People are sick of all that violence. They have a real need for peace and jobs and stability and real security that can help them solve and combat crime.

What is there about Nayib that is bad? He is not a white liberal from the USA. None of the Central Americans are like that. They are religious and family oriented in the extreme, love family life, work hard, and are always wanting to get community work done for the benefit of children and the elderly. The women are super nice, polite, and very pretty. There is a lot to like about El Salvador. The wars, strife, and fighting are over. They came together and the Far Right does not want more violence and neither does the Far Left. They chose Nayib because he is focused on the issues that are important for his people. Me cae bien el presidente de El Salvador.

I have to admit I'm surprised.

The South American left in general, specially the progressive left, doesn't like him. They see him as inhumane against criminals (be they actual or just alleged), and I think his approach reminds some in that camp of the military dictators. The fact that he's religious doesn't help, neither does that he supported Guaido over Maduro.

Indeed, Bukele had a rather public spat with Gustavo Petro (Colombia's President), who accused Bukele of only managing to lower his country's crime rate by reaching a deal with the gangs. Bukele responded in kind, making reference to a campaign funding corruption case involving Petro's son:

Colombia's president trades barbs with his Salvadoran counterpart

Gustavo Petro alleges that top officials under Nayib Bukele made pact with gangs on reducing Central American nation’s murder rate

Laura Gamba Fadul |
10.03.2023 - Update : 10.03.2023

BOGOTA, Colombia

Colombia’s president became embroiled in a quarrel with his El Salvadoran counterpart Thursday in a series of exchanges on social media.

Gustavo Petro posted a report from CNN on Twitter saying that prosecutors in New York allege that top officials under Nayib Bukele made a pact with gangs to reduce the murder rate in the Central American nation.

Petro commented on the report, saying "better than making government pacts under the table would be for justice to make them over the table without deceit and in pursuit of peace."

Bukele immediately reminded Petro that his son is immersed in a corruption scandal that will soon prompt him to testify before Colombian authorities.

"I don't understand your obsession with El Salvador. Isn't your son the one who makes pacts under the table and also for money? Everything all right at home?" he said.

Bukele was referring to Nicolás Petro, who allegedly received illegal money for his father's campaign.

Petro responded, saying: "Here there is a presumption of innocence, a universal principle. Here the president does not dismiss judges or magistrates; he fights for a more autonomous and stronger justice system."

"Here in Colombia, we deepen democracy (and) we do not destroy it,” he added.

The Central American leader shot back.

“Presumption of innocence? I imagine that he has never accused any of his opponents. Colombians will know if that is true or another lie.

“Besides, it was you who attacked me (again) and our internal affairs.”

In mid-February, Petro and Bukele had a strong exchange of words on Twitter when the Colombian leader lashed out at Bukele for having built a high security prison in Tecoluca that had received 2,000 suspected gang members. Petro compared the prison to a “concentration camp.”

According to polls, 95% of El Salvador’s population supports Bukele’s security strategy which has reduced the homicide rate in the country but has been harshly questioned by human rights organizations.

Boric, my country's President, has also criticized Bukele:

...

What do you think of the region’s other millennial leader, El Salvador’s Nayib Bukele. Is he an autocrat?

I don’t know him personally, and he hasn’t participated in multilateral summits. And if you choose freely not to participate, that is suspicious. Why not face the scrutiny of your peers? From what I have studied and my conversations with Salvadorans, there is indeed an authoritarian drift to confront a really serious problem: the gangs. I know it is a really difficult situation and has to be confronted very decisively, but that can’t be done by undermining democracy. The truth is I don’t identify with the way Bukele is leading his government. He probably feels the same about me.

...

I've also seen many in the Chilean right who have some sort of hardon with Bukele's security policies. Chile is currently experiencing a crime wave and many in the Chilean hard-right want the state to be as harsh against gangs and crime in general as Bukele is. They see him as some sort of Central American Trump, just like Bolsonaro was a Brazilian Trump - and those guys really like Trump. And even more so since Boric and his camp do not like him.

As you said, a huge majority of Salvadorans support him, to the point that same majority gave Bukele the control of the executive and legislative branches. He also got Salvador's Supreme Court to allow him to be reelected even though it's against their Constitution - so he also can be said to exert control over the judiciary. What will happen when Salvadorans want a new administration as it will happen sooner or later?

El Salvador's Bukele gets greenlight to run for re-election

Issued on: 04/09/2021 - 09:40
Modified: 04/09/2021 - 09:38

San Salvador (AFP) –

El Salvador's top court Friday said populist President Nayib Bukele would be allowed to run for a second term, despite the country's constitution prohibiting the head of state from serving two consecutive terms in office.

The Supreme Court decision will allow Bukele to run for a second term in 2024 -- potentially making him the Central American nation's first president to serve more than five years in office since the 1950s.

In its ruling, the court said a sitting head of state could seek re-election for a second term as long as they have not "been president during the immediately preceding period".

The decision was handed down by judges appointed to El Salvador's highest court by Bukele in May after the country's parliament removed several justices critical of the government -- a move decried by critics as a "coup d'etat" and one which sparked international condemnation.

The new judges then reversed a previous decision by the Constitutional Chamber of the Supreme Court that ruled the president could not serve more than one consecutive mandate. However, that ruling did allow the head of state to run again in a subsequent election.

Elected in 2019, Bukele enjoys broad support in El Salvador over his promises to fight organised crime and improve security in the violence-wracked country.

His allies also hold a large majority in the country's Congress -- a situation not seen since a peace deal in 1992 put an end to 12 years of bloody civil war.

But he has long been accused of authoritarian tendencies.

Last year, Bukele dispatched troops to the country's parliament in a bid to pressure lawmakers.

© 2021 AFP

As stated in the news piece, this happened some months after Bukele literally went with soldiers to the Salvadoran Legislative Assembly to get them to pass a loan that was to be used to beef up the country's security forces (with widespread support from the public, I will add):

Heavily-armed police and soldiers enter El Salvador parliament
Published
10 February 2020

Heavily-armed police and soldiers in El Salvador have forced their way into parliament, demanding the approval of a $109m (£85m) loan to better equip them.

They entered the building as President Nayib Bukele was about to address lawmakers. Earlier, he gave them seven days to back his loan plan.

Opposition politicians called the appearance of armed men in parliament an unprecedented act of intimidation.

El Salvador has one of the highest murder rates in the world.

Most of the violence is carried out by criminal gangs that operate across Central America.

President Bukele took office in June 2019, pledging to tackle the legacy of gang violence and corruption in the impoverished Central American nation.

The 38-year-old leader wants to use the loan to improve the equipment of police and the armed forces in the fight against crime.

In particular, the funds would be used to buy police vehicles, uniforms, surveillance equipment and a helicopter.

But over the weekend, most MPs opted not to sit for a debate over the proposed bill.

With no quorum in parliament, the president called on his supporters to descend on the parliament building, the BBC's Central America correspondent Will Grant reports.

According to a government estimate about 50,000 pro-government demonstrators turned out, although this was disputed by local media which put the figure at 5,000.

President Bukele told them to be back in the streets within a week if MPs did not debate the bill.

His political opponents accused him of threatening them and turning increasingly authoritarian.

So yes, I am surprised to see you are into this guy. Even progressives don't like him.

I don't trust Bukele just like I don't trust in our far-left. They aren't as different from each other as some may want to believe, even if Bukele has an appeal in the Latin American right: Both seem to be changing or trying to change their countries' Constitutions or to put themselves in a position to act against the law unopposed to perpetuate themselves or their cadre in power.

I don't trust politicians who even try to play that game, it doesn't matter if they are Chavez/Maduro, Morales, Boric, Castillo, Ortega, Bukele, Bolsonaro, Trump, Netanyahu or Orban.

This is despite the fact that I can fully understand why is it that a majority of Salvadorans support a far more authoritarian government that provides a minimum of security. It should be a cautionary tale for those progressives who don't take crime or security seriously, like the ones we have in Chile, just as the Venezuelan example should be a cautionary tale for those who vote for Constitutions that concentrate the government's power in too few hands, allowing the politicians in power do as they wish as long as they can be buddies with the military.

[Beren]

The South American left in general, specially the progressive left, doesn't like him.

But, on a personal level, she does.

[Tainari88]

I'm going to echo wat0n here and be mildly suprised. I'm not saying Bukele is wrong with what he has done, but his 'War on Crime' makes Nixon and Reagan look like pushovers. Mass arrests, increasing prison sentences and constructing new mega-prisons. Not usually the type you side with, but El Salvador has long been one of the most dangerous places outside of actual warzones. If he's successful, he'll likely be re-elected.

Salvadorans are not an unknown group of people for me MadMonk. If you talk to them for years? You get to know them. A president that would have been soft on M13 and or the issues those gangsters created in El Salvador would never got anywhere politically there.

Atheism will never get any support in El Salvador.A more religious and Christian nation on the face of this Earth would be hard to find. Nayib is religious. It could not be a Marxist radical because the USA would have poured in billions of dollars and killed off or pressured out a Marxist. And he would have been a Christian socialist sort of like Sandinistas are in Nicaragua. The Central Americans would never go for any kind of hard left president with no religious ties.

If you study Latin America closely? Atheism is a big turn off for voters in that region. Hugo Chavez was always talking about Christ and reciting and singing bible verses. One has to know the culture you are from. White liberals from the woke crowd never would get to first base in Latin America. I find it funny how out of touch so many English speakers from the UK and Australia and many other first world Anglophone nations are with who are the LEFT in Latin America. There is a huge variety of political thoughts there. The Uruguayans are non religious in general. They chose Jose Mújica in the past as their president. A man who was poor and also a radical and did twelve years in prison before becoming Uruguay's president. Argentina has more psychologists than any other nation in the world per capita. They have a lot of German fascists, and so on.

I could go one by one talking about Latin American diversity in political thoughts, religious movements, social movements, philosophy, intellectual traditions, art, science and much more.

What is shameful is how shallow is the knowledge or lack thereof about us in the developed nations, in Asia and in Europe. The ignorance about Latin America is profound. That is why I joined. This place partly to deal with that. My mother surrounded her political life with leaders and professors and many people who were activists from all the nations of Latin America. She worked within a lot of organizations to make change happen. In that trajectory I learned a lot.

One of the lessons is deal with pragmatism, deal with realism, respect the fair and free votes of the people of that nation. Do not allow interferences from other more powerful nations. The world should not be divide into a pie. The commies get these nations, the capitalists these....and everyone has to bend to the will of the more powerful nations in terms of money and military might. That is not the correct approach. Ever. Again, imperialism is not the way to go. It retards growth and choice for the other small places and nations on the Earth like El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Guatemala, Haiti, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Republica Dominicana, Grenada, US Virgin Islands, Guam, and many other nations in Africa and South America and many other places. If they can't grow and develop on on their own terms? None of the nations will ever be free and the injustices will continue without resolution.

Being responsible for your own society is the key to development that is true. If you are infantilized or retarded in ability of choice and self control in an individual level or a national level too as a group? A culture? A nationality? You have nothing to work with.

Nayib is on the right track.

[Tainari88]

But, on a personal level, she does.

Anyone under the age of fifty for me is just a kid. And that is the truth. No, it is not personal level. It is about he really does have a popular support.

And frankly I really hate what narco trafficking has done in many of our nations.

My husband lived in a bad barrio in San Juan and there was a drug point there and many many people died there fighting it out for drug distribution points. It got so bad that the names etched on a granite slab ran out of room and they stopped recording the names of the victims of drug dealer distribution points and the victims.

My father's beloved nephews from his older brother all lost their lives to drug overdoses. My father in NYC lost most of his childhood friends to drug overdoses. That is the USA in NYC in the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s.

Latin America has had to cope with violence, drug related criminality and the fallout that happens to societies left to rot and to be overridden by threats.

Beren, I visited a little town called Mahahual here in Mexico in the state of Quintana Roo. There was a woman with an altar of her deceased husband displayed at a tiny business she had renting showers, and bathrooms and selling snacks and souvenirs near the beachfront walk there of the little town. Her husband was the mayor. He was elected to keep his little town safe and the beachfront safe for families to picnic and barbeque on the weekends and feel good about their community.

He did not approve of some outsiders from Cancún who catered to foreign tourists from the USA and Canada and Europe who requested pot, drugs, pills and so on which were illegal in the state of Quintana Roo to sell that there. He was taking measures to stop it. He was on his way out of town to go to Chetumal (the capital of the state of Quintana Roo) and he was shot by two assailants. Many knew they were corrupt cops from Cancun who were backing the drug dealers in Mahuahual. His children and his wife were in the car and saw the entire assassination happen in front of them. They looked at his picture with love and also profound sadness.

These gangs and criminal organizations are not the majority of the people of Latin America. They have never been the majority. If they become one percent they are PROBLEMATIC.

One percent of well armed and well funded criminals who can buy off politicians and law enforcement and lawyers and judges? DESTROY THE CIVIL SOCIETY very quickly.

They become terrorists in every sense of the word. People living in fear, it affects the economy, tourism, and the lives of many to feel safe, secure and be able to have basic freedoms.

The USA consumes tremendous amounts of illegal drugs. And Latin America is the supplier for many of the drugs because of its geography and also the history of the CIA and the way they fund their black operations in Latin America.

People in our regions want PEACE and to live without the crime.

If the white liberals who want Latin America to think the way white first-world liberals think in NYC or Chicago agree with their solutions to their own internally LIVED experiences and to be politically correct because they are in the know....? They can go fuck themselves. People are independent of such superficial ideas of what the correct political path is for an autonomous culture. They either understand that Latin America has a right to deal with these kinds of the crisis on their own terms....or their type of liberal white make me feel good about my style of liberalism or you are not on my side bullshit....No. Let the nations of Latin America find a solution. Theirs. Not what the first world might want or some Right-wing fool in the Republican Party wants or some Mormon magic underwear believer wants or some Pelosi liberal hypocrite might decide is the path.

It has nothing to do with them.

@Beren I am fifty seven years old. Not some young woman easily swayed by some handsome man. Lol.

No, that part of my youth is way over. It is all about what is truth to me in this world. It always has been.

[Tainari88]

Another video with Nayib speaking. He is dealing with a lot of problems.

Jobs, security, infrastructure, he is talking pragmatism. Something that Trump never deals with. El Nayib does not talk like a narcissist.

Pay attention to the phrasing and the thinking that he does. It gives you tremendous insight into who he is as a politician.

El Salvador only has five years to fix things. Mexico only gives you six years and the USA only four years and only another four years for a total of eight years.

Each nation decides what the time is for the presidential term. The UK has a PM and some monarchical symbolism that I find outdated and useless by the way. Thailand has a monarchy. India is a democracy. With both Left and Right vying for power. China is an authoritarian state capitalist economic one party the CCP rule. Ukraine voted in a comedian. A liberal one at that of Jewish background. Zelenskyy had a show on TV. He probably never thought he had a shot at winning at first.

The politics of many nations are as diverse as their own internal histories. What I am against is not diversity at all. It is against IMPERIALISM, human extinction and politics that are inhumane and disrespectful for again, the power of the people to shape their own futures. Without having to deal with grinding poverty, lacks in educational opportunities or economic opportunities either, and never having hope for a better future. Climate change is real. So are many challenging things to be faced in the near future.

If we fail to cooperate and believe a bunch of lies about each other like hiarchies based on shit? And not pay attention to the human behavior that is very very similar under the same type of conditions? We make serious errors that take decades or generations to rectify.

Pay attention to behavior of the politician in question. His thoughts, his language, his thought process, his policies and his or her integrity. El carácter. The character. Of that leader. Do they accept bribes and big payouts to stay alive politically and do not care about the original ideals they set out to rectify? Are they people who compromise on principles they should never compromise on? Are they people who behave in ways that tell you who they are.

When they reveal who they are to you? And all of these people with their words and actions reveal who they are to the world...and you fail to accept it? Then you are the one who is in the wrong.

When they tell you who they are, BELIEVE THEM THE FIRST TIME. That is the key to knowing who these politicos are.

[wat0n]

El Salvador only has five years to fix things. Mexico only gives you six years and the USA only four years and only another four years for a total of eight years.

Not Bukele, he can run next year.

[Tainari88]

Not Bukele, he can run next year.

For me you should always have a deep bench in your political column. That means you got a lot of people as competent or better than you even, who can do a good campaign and get a seat after your term limit is up. I think the pressure of being a president with a lot of responsibilities is a lot for one person. You have to finish and leave. And if you did a good job? The next person from your party can take up the cause of being re-elected.

If you did a fine job? You made the next person in your political column's job much easier.

All these political positions should never be eternal. It is not healthy and never will it be healthy for people addicted to power.

Pelosi should have left long ago. The same with McConnell and all the rest of those overdue to leave people in politics.

Let younger and vital people with great ideas do what they need to do.

Never overstay your welcome in power.

[Potemkin]

I'm going to echo wat0n here and be mildly suprised. I'm not saying Bukele is wrong with what he has done, but his 'War on Crime' makes Nixon and Reagan look like pushovers. Mass arrests, increasing prison sentences and constructing new mega-prisons. Not usually the type you side with, but El Salvador has long been one of the most dangerous places outside of actual warzones. If he's successful, he'll likely be re-elected.

Everyone here on PoFo knows my political position. But during the 1980s and 1990s, I strongly approved of Rudolf Giuliani’s actions, both as an attorney in the early 80s when he took down the entire leadership of the Mafia Commission, handing out sentences of 100 years each to the bosses of the Five Families, and later when he was Mayor of New York, when he cracked down on petty crime, graffiti and drug use. He cleaned up Times Square, and it has stayed cleaned up. Why would I not approve of that? Any decent person should. The Mafia has always preyed on the working class, adding an extra layer of exploitation onto the already exploitative capitalist system, and the petty criminality, drug use, and sexual exploitation of women in the permissive 70s was a blight on the entire city of New York. Giuliani cleaned that up. He has suffered a sad personal decline in recent years, but I remember the man he was back in the 1980s and 90s. Bukele is not El Salvador’s Donald Trump; he’s El Salvador’s Rudolf Giuliani. And in my book, that’s a damn good thing.

[wat0n]

Everyone here on PoFo knows my political position. But during the 1980s and 1990s, I strongly approved of Rudolf Giuliani’s actions, both as an attorney in the early 80s when he took down the entire leadership of the Mafia Commission, handing out sentences of 100 years each to the bosses of the Five Families, and later when he was Mayor of New York, when he cracked down on petty crime, graffiti and drug use. He cleaned up Times Square, and it has stayed cleaned up. Why would I not approve of that? Any decent person should. The Mafia has always preyed on the working class, adding an extra layer of exploitation onto the already exploitative capitalist system, and the petty criminality, drug use, and sexual exploitation of women in the permissive 70s was a blight on the entire city of New York. Giuliani cleaned that up. He has suffered a sad personal decline in recent years, but I remember the man he was back in the 1980s and 90s. Bukele is not El Salvador’s Donald Trump; he’s El Salvador’s Rudolf Giuliani. And in my book, that’s a damn good thing.

But then again, Giuliani never had the chance to perpetuate himself in power by controlling all the branches of government.

The US is actually an example that a system of checks and balances can perfectly allow for a tough stance on organized crime.

[Beren]

Bukele is not El Salvador’s Donald Trump; he’s El Salvador’s Rudolf Giuliani. And in my book, that’s a damn good thing.

What if Bukele's El Salvador's Mussolini? Mussolini also eliminated the Mafia in Italy, would that be a damn good thing in your book as well? It wouldn't surprise me much if it somehow were, however, it'd surprise me pretty much if it were a damn good thing in Tainari's book too.

[Tainari88]

What if Bukele's El Salvador's Mussolini? Mussolini also eliminated the Mafia in Italy, would that be a damn good thing in your book as well? It wouldn't surprise me much if it somehow were, however, it'd surprise me pretty much if it were a damn good thing in Tainari's book too.

Beren, you need to do a lot more reading in politics. Lol. Every political philosophy out there has something they do well. Can you think of what the fascists do well? I can. The Francisco Franco types and the Mussolini types keep the criminals in check.

The fascists do the stamp out crime well. They always have. Do they do free speech, equal rights, and civil rights, and many vital things to a well run democracy well? Hell no. But they get rid of these terroristic drug dealing types at bay and without power. A great thing.

Talking about Italy. Italy after WWII had a resurgence of the far Left. The unionists and the communists and the socialists were roaring back. The post WWII USA worked feverishly on making sure the Italian Left never got back into power. Please see the chapter on Italy in Understanding Power with Noam Chomsky. If you need a specific page I can get that for you as well. So the USA government wanting to make sure the far Left never made it in Italy, asked the police to let the Mafia leadership that had been completely contained or wiped out under Mussolini to come back. Just to make sure the Left did not get any real foothold and the influence of Italian socialism was left behind.

Again, complexity is human Beren. Never simplistic things. Those who do not know about complexity in human political thought make a lot of dreadful mistakes.

I never agree with fascism. Ever. But being tough on terror of crime people is absolutely a good thing. Honduras is way worse with the crime issues and Nayib Bukele mentions Honduras as the headquarters of MS13 because it is the headquarters of MS13.

Everyone reading this thread should study Honduras thoroughly because it is a basket case country and the one country in Central America that has been intervened severely by the USA and never allowed not even a bit of self development. It is also the one with the largest caravans of asylum seekers. There is a direct correlation with high crime, high poverty and lack of peace and lack of self rule and everything that is wrong with imperial governments from afar.

The fascists are good at intolerance of violent criminals who are a threat to peaceful civilian society. Tolerating the crap I heard over the years from Salvadorans trying to live their lives is not for people thinking these are going to go away.

They are mostly young also. They need educations, and guidance, but if they are committed to killing and raping and drug dealing I won't be thinking that my society has to tolerate it.

Puerto Rico tolerates way too much crime as it is. All the violent crime my family had to cope with was all drug deal and drug addict related. Most of it is in this world. In the states, the Caribbean, Mexico. All of it is about the worst of capitalism. What is it? People willing to kill and commit horrible acts to sell drugs or transport drugs for profit in order to get rich quick by selling poison to some unknown, unnamed person. Just the money and the power that comes with these get rich schemes for people unwilling to go and take some low status job and sweat for their money like decent working class people do in this world. They want to own the world, live like royalty and use fear and violence to stay in power. They are literally a brew of toxicity of for profit, capitalism, greed, fear, terror, and murder and remorseless people with zero moral or ethical consciousness.

They can change. But if they don't? Why should the working folks have to tolerate their shit? I would not.

[Beren]

Beren, you need to do a lot more reading in politics.

Do you mean your posts that are complete lectures?

[Tainari88]

Do you mean your posts that are complete lectures?

And do you think debates are about one line posts? How many real insights to a political situation can you give with one or two lines? The best at that I have seen on here has been@Potemkin.

Beren, I wish I knew more about what you thought about a lot of aspects of international politics but what I read from you is not conducive to that.

You have been in this froum since when? 2006. A long time. In a few years it is twenty years. Have you enjoyed reading people on here? Why and who?

I accept that my style is not European or Anglo at all. It never will be. Personally, the Latin Americans are long winded in general and detailed also and flowery and everything else. I do remember one time at the UPR I was very concise and to the point and a professor told me point blank, {Tainari this is not the USA you know. We expect a lecture on a subject, and it should be well worked and it should be explored. It should have emotional content and be full of content.}

Ultimately it is another culture and another political style among many. Not from Europe or the UK at all. The closest to our style in Europe would be the Italians and the Spanish and Portuguese.

They also are long winded and passionate.

In these moments I do miss @blackjack21. He was a far Right man who disagreed all the time with me. But both of us were long winded and had stamina and could keep the debate going without falling into insults and jabs. A distracting thing. But the man had enough of California liberals and paying too much of his money in taxes. And he packed his bags and went to Tennessee even though he was a native Californian from Northern California.

If you want someone laconic full of content and brilliant? Read @Potemkin. I always enjoyed his posts. I disagree with him all the time but he always gives me food for thought.

I have been a marathon reader my entire reading life Beren. In everything. I am just being true to my style.

Bukele for me? The guy is thinking hard about a lot of what he is dealing with in El Salvador. Central America used to be part of Mexico basically. So many people never study the history of Latin America. Panama used to be part of Colombia. There were wars between the nations of Central America. Mexico City is a mega city that was the center in many ways of Mesoamerican civilizations.

I won't go on anymore. After all Beren? You are going to give your characteristic one or two line reply eh?

[wat0n]

For me you should always have a deep bench in your political column. That means you got a lot of people as competent or better than you even, who can do a good campaign and get a seat after your term limit is up. I think the pressure of being a president with a lot of responsibilities is a lot for one person. You have to finish and leave. And if you did a good job? The next person from your party can take up the cause of being re-elected.

If you did a fine job? You made the next person in your political column's job much easier.

All these political positions should never be eternal. It is not healthy and never will it be healthy for people addicted to power.

Pelosi should have left long ago. The same with McConnell and all the rest of those overdue to leave people in politics.

Let younger and vital people with great ideas do what they need to do.

Never overstay your welcome in power.

It is explicitly written in the law that Presidents can't be reelected consecutively yet the sitting President is still being allowed to run to do just that by a court whose judges were appointed by the President.

Surely you can see something's not working here, right?