[AmesMedio]

President Uribe of Colombia is surging in popularity despite the brutal practices his government condones in their war on terrorism. Meanwhile, the United States continues to give hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Colombian government, with hardly a word of censure about their links to pseudo-fascist paramilitary forces.
I'm not supporting the FARC or the ELN. Their tactics are fueled by greed for drug-money and a cyclic war with no end. However, the paramilitaries are decimating the villages of the Colombian countryside with the same zeal as their Marxist adversaries. Yet these paramilitaries find support from the Colombian military and political establishment; by proxy, the American war on drugs.

[smashthestate]

Between the tyrannical Columbian government, which is funded in part by the United States, and the various drug cartels all seeking power for themselves, it seems the people of Columbia are in dire need of a "rescue." Rarely do situations such as these fix themselves. Usually this can only occur with a revolution, and the people of Columbia are in no condition to start a revolution, which they will most certainly lose.

The first thing I think should happen is to stop any and all funding from the U.S. to the Columbian government. No government which is truly tyrannical, and oppressing its people, should get any kind of funding, and the U.S.--by funding it in part--is supporting that government.

[AmesMedio]

But that's not the extent of the problem. The majority of Colombians are dissatisfied, true, but they are also looking towards Uribe and the US as potential saviors from their mess. Most are sick of the crime, violence, and drug money that flood the state. I think the true danger here is that Colombia will resort to some form of extreme-right dictatorship.
Ames

[Nox]

I think the true danger here is that Colombia will resort to some form of extreme-right dictatorship.

I agree with you and wish that we are both wrong at the same time. I think we both realize the consequences involved. The trouble is, the nature of the drug lords methods of siezing and maintaining power place ANY force opposed to them in a precarious position. Whatever tact you use is guarenteed to alienate one group or other with the implication of a downward spiraling circle of violence.

The solution .... ... is the best I can come up with right now.

Nox

[bach]

I'm sorry for the Colombian people, because they have no idea what happens in their country, all because of the massive amounts of propaganda that they are subject to, example:



http://www.caracol.com.co/titular.asp?ID=98789

This add was run by Caracol the biggest news network in Colombia, which at the same time is controlled and owned by the biggest business conglomerate in Colombia (Grupo Bavaria)

It seems to me like pure propaganda, besides would any country who still has some sense of sovereingty allow news networks to run this kind of propaganda using the country's flag and sovereing territory?

[AmesMedio]

How is this different from an article in the NYTimes? I think that American propaganda is perpetrated on a much larger and shadowy scale. The majority of Colombians would welcome an end to their conflict in whatever form it takes.
Nox-You hit the nail on the head in your mention of the drug trade. Their hold over Colombian politics is inescapable.

[bach]

The majority of Colombians would welcome an end to their conflict in whatever form it takes.

See, here you are asuming big time, and assumption is not good friend of reason, "whatever form it takes" sounds to me like no solution at all, according to this either a leftist or a right wing dictatorship would solve the problem, which it would not. However, according to what is on the table as of right now, the most probable blueprint in washington is a right wing dictatorship, or at least thats what is commonly used in these cases. To me the colombian problem is more deeply rooted than simply what it seems, for now I leave you this article which for those who cant reade it, I would try to translate later.

"Un comprador extranjero de artículos de cuero fue enviado por su jefe a averiguar por qué los productos colombianos que le ofrecían, a pesar de ser muy elegantes, tenían baja calidad y altos precios.

Para descubrir el problema, empezó por indagar con los fabricantes de estos productos de cuero, quienes le explicaron: 'No es culpa nuestra; los cueros vienen mal desde el matadero porque allá solo les interesa la venta de carne'.

El extranjero se dirigió a los mataderos, pero allí le aclararon: 'La culpa no es nuestra, sino de los ganaderos que gastan poco en veneno contra garrapatas y delimitan los potreros con alambres de púas'.

El extranjero, creyendo que el problema sería fácilmente resuelto, acudió entonces a los ganaderos. Estos le dijeron: 'La culpa no es nuestra, ¿qué podemos hacer si esas vacas estúpidas se refriegan contra los alambres?'.

El comprador escribió a su jefe que ya tenía claro todo, pero el problema era insoluble: 'La culpa es de las vacas colombianas'"


(Tomado del libro Culture matters: how values shape human progress, compilado por Laurence Harrison y Samuel Huntington).

[AmesMedio]

Huntington

I don't pretend that this is my personal view, just the view of many Colombians I have interracted with down there this summer. I agree too, that the American solution is usually a right-wing government of some kind. I only say that seeing this problem first hand has helped me understand how some people look towards a strong and often dictatorial leader to help them out of their messes. Whether or not Uribe and Bush have something up their sleeve for Colombia remains to be seen.

[Wilhelm]

I agree in part. I have to look for this political cartoon I saw one time in Semana, an important magazine in Colombia, about Rumsfeld's visit to Colombia. It basically had those things they have in churches to kneel to the altar with the names of the president and the ministers, and the caption said, "the seating that our government will use to receive US secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld". Anyway, I'll see if I can find it on the net and post it.

[Wilhelm]

About that thing posted by bach. You are right, our problem is rooted deeper. But the armed conflict has nothing to do with the Colombian custom to blame everything on others.

I wasn't able to find that cartoon (those capitalist pigs would have me pay for it), but I found a recent one about Reagan's death:



Literal translation: "Reagan was my hero. I had always wanted to be in his shoes."

[brujo]

hi all. I'm just pointing this out to improve the information and help us find the better truth.

the ELN is not financed by drug trade. They are also on the run, having been brutally kicked out of Barrancabermeja in the north by the paramilitary. They are startin talks with the government (mostly because its their last bargaining piece).

[bach]

the ELN is not financed by drug trade. They are also on the run, having been brutally kicked out of Barrancabermeja in the north by the paramilitary.

First, everybody in colombia is financed by the drug trade, that thing of saying only the FARC, ELN or the AUCC, are finance by the drug trade is false, thats because the Colombian economy is stupid, true production is a small fracion of the GDP.

Most of the capital entering the country is either dirty money, money transfers, and on the side raw materials revenues.

Now, when I say everybody, I say legal companies, and "legal citizens", in fact the richest guy in colombia is a banker (Mr Sarmiento), that is because he charges interest on 50% of the fluid capital, 40% of it not well obtained. (Mr Santodomingo is absent, he really is one hell of a capitalists)

They all guilty

As far as the blame article it is just funny, the conflict is by no means related to it, the conflict is purely political : strugle of powers, bad representaion of the peoples interest, and weakness of the state( dont confuse with arm power).

[Wilhelm]

There are three really rich guys in COlombia. Sarmiento is a banker, Santodomingo is the owner of Bavaria. He owns the beer industry in COlombia. He used ot own a promiennt newspaper and an airline among others, but his business seems ot be going down. The other one is Ardila, he does a jack of all trades.

[abraxas]

Meanwhile, the United States continues to give hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Colombian government, with hardly a word of censure about their links to pseudo-fascist paramilitary forces.

I love how the USA creates the impression of financing Colombia's war. Ironically enough, Colombia's war although very much controlled by the US politics, is financed nearly in its entirety by the already-struggling colombian government.

For taste of the soup, "Plan Colombia" a mostly military program anounced with much pomp and circumstance as being USA's great aid to Colombia, is financed in more than 50% by the colombian government.

Certainly, the US is very skilled at telling us how to fight our civil war, and is quite happy to make a profit out of it, selling us their warfare, not to mention, the chemicals used for illegal-crop spraying.

[clanko]

AmesMedio wrote:

However, the paramilitaries are decimating the villages of the Colombian countryside with the same zeal as their Marxist

Tell me, in the 'cyclic' conflict, which wrong came first.