[Reddy Peoples]

I should clarify that my quote is intended to speak towards the issue of logic. It's not supposed to extend to all things- sometimes we can know something's worth by knowing it's opposite, (in short, I'm allowing for a priori truths here). Logic, however, in order to be truely appriciated, has to weigh on our backs at all times- we have to be pressed against it, feeling in on ourselves during all moments in which we consider the worlds around us. Logic, the cross we must be against if we truely want to see the world as it is, must hold us up, we must hang from it and be bound by the strength of it's arms. We must be nailed to it, bending to it rather than having it bend to us. In short, logic PERMITS the existance of the a-priori truth, but it enforces an a-posteriori reality in a way we cannot deny, just as one could not deny the nailing of one's hand to a plank. To be nailed to a cross is to KNOW that death is real- and to know the reality of death in a way that no other living, un-nailed person could. When one's back is pressed to logic there are no lies, not even in the faces of those who view us nailed to it as specators in our obligation.

[Wilhelm]

Thats is absolutely false, Antonio Navarro is not running and will not, and even if wanted he cant because of the new laws that have been passed, limiting independent political parties, so to make it a two party system.

Wrong, they started doing that becaus epolitical parties get money grants, and people were forming political parties just to get the money. These 'parties' would consist of a legal document, and office, and a bank account to receive the government money. Only parties with a considerable amount of membership are officially recognized and given the grants now.

All the leftists have now joined in the PDI, Polo Democratico Independiente , of which Garzon, Bogota's mayor, is part of. Anyone can run for president here, you do not need a party. You can run as independent. You have to be 25 years or older, be a Colombian citizen and so on. The elections will not be Uribe versus Mockus, because Mockus is not from the PDI, and in the case reelection is approved (it's being debated now, Colombia does not currently have reelection) the folloowers of Mockus, Peñalosa, Vargas and many others will flock to vote for Uribe, who will be pitted against the PDI candidate who is not yet known.

Yes, those are sort of priorities, so much that the french government has been the only one interested in freeing the poor lady, they have already tried twice, she holds french citizenship, sure the colombian one isnt getting her out of trouble. after all she was kidnapped because the Pastrana government denied her security forces to go with her in the campaign trail. while there were plenty for the other two candidates, after all 20 soldiers could have saved her from getting nailed, because I must admit the colombian soldiers and police comdos are really good at resisting attacks.

Ingrid betancourt was kidnapped because she was stupid. Most of the candidates went to the zona de despeje to do politics there, even when it was being cleared out by the military, and a large number of guerrillas were still there. All of them turned back at FARC's petition. Betancourt went in, she was captured. Pretty stupid thing to do.

[bach]

the folloowers of Mockus, Peñalosa, Vargas and many others will flock to vote for Uribe, who will be pitted against the PDI candidate who is not yet known.

Very good try my political friend, but you just told me that there will be two candidates the leftist PDI and conservative, that makes it 2, a two party system. Were independent candidates as Navarro as back in the timne have no chances of runing, and all this has been possible thanks to the new laws, which are good in any case. (thats why all independents are now inside the PDI)

Of course, there has to be a liberal candidate, but the time will come and youll see its going to be Mockus VS Uribe, in fact, thats the reason why Garzon is Bogota's mayor , so that he cant run for president, and Uribe can stay as president.

Moreover, they tried to take Mockus out of the presidential race by offering him the canadian embassy, after all he is a threat and they know it, besides he did not accept the embassy.

Ingrid betancourt was kidnapped because she was stupid.

So it is not the governments duty to protect its citizens, "is every man by himself", well, right there you have the biggest problem colombia faces, and its the inability of the goverment to fullfil its basic duties.

In conclusion, it was the governments fault, you cant blame Ingrid for being kidnaped, thats like closing all police stations and then telling the citizens who got robbed it was their fault because they didnt fight the thiefs.

If the government cant protect its citizens, you may as well not have one, after all thats the basic principle that supports the existance of states.

A very clear example is Israel, ( somehow a little over the extreme)

Hope next time you go to colombia dont get killed, because is your fault after all.

[Der Freiheitsucher]

bach, I didn't read your entire reply but the last part. The problem in Colombia is exactly that, that the government cannot protect it's citizens anymore. If it could, there would be no FARC and especially no AUC.

Ingrid Betancourt indeed got kidnapped for stupidity. You tell John Kerry to wander off in the streets of Texas and see what happens to him, it's not that the government cant protect its citizens, it's sheer tomfoolery. Betancourt went into the most dangerous and Guerilla-plagued zone in the country, being a presidential candidate, and you expect the government to control this... How? Don't be stupid, no government can protect all its citizens, especially the Colombian one.

And yes, if someone (including myself) comes into the country and gets killed - Of bloody course it's partly their fault. It's not like the government is saying that it's safe here, or that nothing will happen. They warn you, as they warned her, but she still went and got kidpanned. Tough luck for her, that's what happens with stupid people.

[Wilhelm]

bach, Navarro is not an independent candidate, he indeed is part of the PDI. I would bet more on Uribe vs Navarro than Mockus vs Navarro. Anyway, we are still 2 years away from that, lets wait for 2006 and see.