[QatzelOk]

Zapatero once again proves that social-democracy is far from anything socialist.

I have one thing to say in Zapatero's favor. After all the other guests are back in South America, Zapatero will continue to share a country with that pompous asshole king. So it is only normal that he would act like an apologist for monarchy and fascism. It's what he has to work with.

As for Chavez interrupting Zapatero, ooooh.... how mean. Zapatero should have taken off a white silk glove and challenged him to a glove duel.

[Eauz]

Furthermore, it was an international conference with a structured debate. Period. Chavez kept interrupting Zapatero. This is fact. As the moderator, the King had full right to tell Chavez to shut up and let Zapatero make his damn point.

Again, it is acceptable to be rude by having a state that supported the coup in Venezuela but it is unacceptable to question the authority and definition of respect coming out of the mouth of the Spanish prime minister? Another example of apologetic behaviour for reactionaries. So, in other words, It's cool to kill people and cause havic in other countries but when it comes to discussion, don't ever call someone a fascist? Great logic.

Regardless of your political views I'm sure anyone can see Chavez was out of line. If he thinks he can bully and talk trash to the leaders of other soverign nations he's got another thing comin'.

Please provide me the facts that he was out of line? Telling history as it is, is not really out of line. In addition, he's a nationalist, which means he's not a big fan of those trying to stomp all over Venezuela or to have Venezuela be in its place on the food chain. What else would you expect?

[ThereBeDragons]

Congratulations, you have quickly jumped ship from "Chavez was not being rude" to "Chavez was justified in being rude."

Which are totally different.

[Eauz]

Congratulations, you have quickly jumped ship from "Chavez was not being rude" to "Chavez was justified in being rude."

Which are totally different.

Congratulations on being incapable of stringing together a logical point.

[ThereBeDragons]

Congratulations on being incapable of stringing together a logical point.

"Congratulations on being incapable of stringing together a logical point."

[PaxAmericana]

Please provide me the facts that he was out of line? Telling history as it is, is not really out of line. In addition, he's a nationalist, which means he's not a big fan of those trying to stomp all over Venezuela or to have Venezuela be in its place on the food chain. What else would you expect?

The facts? I'm pretty sure I saw the same Youtube video as you did. And if you understand it in Spanish like I do he's behaving much ruder than it sounds in English. And like I said, that is a respectful forum for democratically elected leaders, he can't behave like he's arguing politics in a bar with his fellow beret-wearing Che-enthusiasts. If he wants to denounce Spain he can do it on Venezuela National TV or when it's his turn to speak. That man needs self-control.

[Eauz]

As a side note, I'd like you to review the video where they talk about being "respectful" of those politicians who have been elected by popular vote. Oddly enough, who is sitting next to Zapatero that is not an elected official?

In addition, these meetings show, among other, the weakness of the Latin American bourgeoisies, having problems to come to common terms without being called by some superior power. The task is to overcome this, and Chavez is well on the road for it.

[PaxAmericana]

Chavez was being a dick to Zapatero, not to the King so the King's reaction has nothing to with the democratric legitimacy of that summit. Zapatero is the elected leader of Spain and is to be respected as such. Zapatero had more self-control than the King and so Zapatero kept asking nicely (over and over and over and over..) for Chavez to let him speak. I find it hilarious that Chavez behaves exactly the same as the only Autocrat in the room. I wouldn't expect any less from a future Authoritarian like Chavez anyway

[Andres]

That is, unless you want to talk about institutionalised debate, then we've got another issue here.

And what do you think was supposed to happen there? Why do you think his microphone was turned off? He was out of line, and if you cannot see that from the video, then nothing I say will change your mind.

Oh right, I forgot, in the West, as long as the government is pro-West, we shall support them, even if they are not democratically elected. That is far from supportive of fascism.

Supporting a coup does not turn you into a fascist.

In addition, these meetings show, among other, the weakness of the Latin American bourgeoisies, having problems to come to common terms without being called by some superior power.

Oh please, don't start with the same melodrama as Chavez.

[Eauz]

He was out of line, and if you cannot see that from the video, then nothing I say will change your mind.

He wasn't really out of line if he was trying to correct an issue that Zapatero brought up. You can't really bring up the topic of respect, when one does not actually understand respect in its fullest definition. If you can't see that from the video, than nothing I say will change your mind.

Supporting a coup does not turn you into a fascist.

It's somewhat fascist to support an undemocratic government developed from the reactionary class of society. Again, lacking respect for other people, but as long as there is respect within a private forum, we need not worry about respect elsewhere.

Oh please, don't start with the same melodrama as Chavez.

Oh, please, don't start with the apologetic behaviour for reactionaries.

*I can only work with what I have, andres, and throwing one-liners around isn't really aiding to your argument.

[Far-Right Sage]

He wasn't really out of line if he was trying to correct an issue that Zapatero brought up.

It's rather dramatic to make the leap of faith to assume that the leading figure in the Venezuelan government is so disrespected in the international community that Chavez wouldn't have been allowed to respectfully respond after Zapatero was finished with his own statement. I loathe Zapatero's politics, and I'm not fond of the man on a personal level either, but Chavez was once again out of turn. He isn't a diplomat; he's a schoolyard bully and a crude character - Even Khruschev would shutter.

It's somewhat fascist to support an undemocratic government developed from the reactionary class of society.

No, it's undemocratic, but then again, undemocratic is what perfectly describes many 20th century Marxist movements, so clearly it is not term synonymous with fascism or the far-right.

[Gintonpar]

How on Earth does the King of Spain get invited to anything remotely official or with serious diplomatic worth? The man is there on the virtue of his birth, and he is now being praised for being some kind of divine mediator.

You may as well invite the cat to give it's opinion on the matter. It would have as much right to be there as good King Carlos.

[Maas]

How on Earth does the King of Spain get invited to anything remotely official or with serious diplomatic worth? The man is there on the virtue of his birth, and he is now being praised for being some kind of divine mediator.

Because the country is still officially the Reino de España / Kingdom of Spain, and not a republic.

But I do wonder what he did there too.
I thought the role of the king was almost zip in Spain.
Which is unlike my country, where the Queen still actifly helps with the making of a new government and so on.