Syrian war thread - Page 177 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in the nations of the Middle East.

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By starman2003
#14984412
Zionist Nationalist wrote:@starman2003

annexation is the final goal but with most palestinians either evicted or left
a Palestinian state is not an option anymore


Yes of course, to annex the West Bank fully, the Israelis will have to drive out the Palestinians and even kill many. It's not something I want in principle but I have long predicted it.
#14984413
starman2003 wrote:
Yes of course, to annex the West Bank fully, the Israelis will have to drive out the Palestinians and even kill many. It's not something I want in principle but I have long predicted it.
The the thing is that Israel alredy tried to offer them alot in oslo accords and later in camp david arafat refused everything and than abu mazen refused to olmert for even better conditions

they dont want to have a state they know that it will be a failed corrupt state with two seperate parts and a disastrous economy heavily dependant on Israel so they perfer a one state solution where they eventually can take over thanks to their demographic growth
#14984692
Zionist Nationalist wrote:The the thing is that Israel alredy tried to offer them alot in oslo accords and later in camp david arafat refused everything and than abu mazen refused to olmert for even better conditions

they dont want to have a state they know that it will be a failed corrupt state with two seperate parts and a disastrous economy heavily dependant on Israel so they perfer a one state solution where they eventually can take over thanks to their demographic growth

The only thing I would add is that they don't want a Jewish state. They believe the Jews took over their land and they want to destroy the Jews. They have often promised to drive the Jews into the Sea.
#14984714
Zionist Nationalist wrote:The the thing is that Israel alredy tried to offer them alot in oslo accords and later in camp david arafat refused everything and than abu mazen refused to olmert for even better conditions


If you read Walt and Mearsheimer you'll get a much different take on that....

they dont want to have a state they know that it will be a failed corrupt state with two seperate parts and a disastrous economy heavily dependant on Israel so they perfer a one state solution where they eventually can take over thanks to their demographic growth


...but all this is academic now. There's no longer any hope of a negotiated settlement to create a Palestinian state. All I predict now is eventual, mass "ethnic cleansing."
#14984887
Hindsite wrote:The only thing I would add is that they don't want a Jewish state. They believe the Jews took over their land and they want to destroy the Jews. They have often promised to drive the Jews into the Sea.


You are conflating a few different ideas all into one. Let's assume for the sake of argument that as you say;

The only thing I would add is that they don't want a Jewish state.


You make a couple errors in logic, namely is a ''Jewish State'' something really good for Jews, for other non-Jew (Christian and Muslim) residents of the Holy Land, or for the region and the world?

It already exists so there is that, but just because something exists does not necessarily make it right to do so. In other words, you'd have to defend logically the alleged right for the political entity known as Israel to exist, just as Poles once argued for Poland to exist and Irish for Ireland.

But you went further and said that;

They believe the Jews took over their land and they want to destroy the Jews.


You say that ''They'' (who are ''they''?) believe the Jews took over their land, and that's right, the Jews did. You'd have to make a logical case that the people there before Jewish immigration to the Holy Land did not have a natural right to the land they worked and lived upon before Israel's existence in 1948, Christians and Muslims and even a few Jews and Samaritans, and also did not and do not have the right like other peoples to self-government and sovereignty.

Likewise, you would have to prove that ''they'' want to ''destroy the Jews'' and also prove that this is the same thing as ending the State of Israel, even though genocides rarely occur historically speaking when national sovereignty ends. Otherwise what you say is just thoughtless inflammatory rhetoric.

Just as you say here;

They have often promised to drive the Jews into the Sea


Who is this ''they'', and do they represent all the non-Jewish residents of the Holy Land? Do you have a source for this?

In fact, i'll go further;

what is it that you would like to see come out of this situation for non-Jewish residents of the Holy Land, you know, the Christians who have been there for over 20 centuries and who are chiefly descendants of the Israelites/Jews who followed Christ? Do they not have a better claim to be the Israel that has sovereignty over the Holy Land, as they follow Christ the true ''King of the Jews''?

Let me read what you personally would like to see, in relation to Israel and non-Jews within the Holy Land and neighboring countries, i'm curious.

Is your whole geopolitical thinking based on a theological theory, for which you're willing to see people live or die? Have good relations with some countries while not with others, based on this theory?
By skinster
#14985902
Trump: U.S. Will Retain Some Troops in Syria for Now to ‘Protect Israel’

From the ^CBS interview:

MARGARET BRENNAN: How many troops are still in Syria? When are they coming home?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: 2,000 troops.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When are they coming home?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: They're starting to, as we gain the remainder, the final remainder of the caliphate of the area, they'll be going to our base in Iraq, and ultimately some will be coming home. But we're going to be there and we're going to be staying--

MARGARET BRENNAN: So that's a matter of months?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have to protect Israel. We have to protect other things that we have. But we're- yeah, they'll be coming back in a matter of time. Look, we're protecting the world.
#14986635
annatar1914 wrote:You say that ''They'' (who are ''they''?) believe the Jews took over their land, and that's right, the Jews did. You'd have to make a logical case that the people there before Jewish immigration to the Holy Land did not have a natural right to the land they worked and lived upon before Israel's existence in 1948, Christians and Muslims and even a few Jews and Samaritans, and also did not and do not have the right like other peoples to self-government and sovereignty.

Likewise, you would have to prove that ''they'' want to ''destroy the Jews'' and also prove that this is the same thing as ending the State of Israel, even though genocides rarely occur historically speaking when national sovereignty ends. Otherwise what you say is just thoughtless inflammatory rhetoric.

Who is this ''they'', and do they represent all the non-Jewish residents of the Holy Land? Do you have a source for this?

"They" are the Arabs. I don't hear it anymore, but I used to hear it all the time.

Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine war

Arab warnings and threats of massacre

Against Jews of Palestine


After the Partition vote, some Arab leaders threatened the Jewish population of Palestine. For example, they spoke of "driving the Jews into the sea" or ridding Palestine "of the Zionist Plague".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_ ... estine_war

Did Arab States Really Promise to Push Jews Into the Sea? Yes!

https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/02/20/d ... e-sea-yes/
#14986903
@Hindsite

So basically you're a shill, for ignoring my questions and comments of a theological nature, and going straight into the partisan polemic;

"They" are the Arabs.


Whatever they are, let's call them the ''local residents'', that might clear up any notions you might have of triggering any Pavlovian racist sentiment out there.

I don't hear it anymore, but I used to hear it all the time.


I'll bet you did, you're of the same camp as the source of those claims. Claims are just claims, and you didn't produce any proof, did you, of genocidal intent?

Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine war

Arab warnings and threats of massacre

Against Jews of Palestine


And i'm sure not a mention of the outrages committed by the other side, or admission of exaggerations in storytelling. Two sides tell a story.

After the Partition vote, some Arab leaders threatened the Jewish population of Palestine. For example, they spoke of "driving the Jews into the sea" or ridding Palestine "of the Zionist Plague".


Americans talked of ''ending the Communist plague'' once, during the Cold War; did that mean ridding the world of Russians? :excited: :roll:

I'm sure everybody in the Holy Land could live in peace.

And I bet American Indians felt the same about their displacement, as the ''Arabs'' do, or any other invaded or colonized and or enslaved peoples throughout history. But you don't give a shit about them, the ''Christian'' that you are, so I'll move on;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war

Did Arab States Really Promise to Push Jews Into the Sea? Yes!

https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/02/20/d ... e-sea-yes/


I'll leave it to the discerning reader whether this is proof of a genocidal intent on the part of ''Arabs'', or an all-too-human desire to expel an invader and colonizer, who is winning with the help of the world for the most part, and in the course of fighting such invaders excesses and stupidities are bound to happen.

But hey, this is the way of the world; ''the powerful do what they will and the weak suffer as they must'', right? After all, it's not me..
#14986967
annatar1914 wrote:@Hindsite

So basically you're a shill, for ignoring my questions and comments of a theological nature, and going straight into the partisan polemic;

We don't want chastisement by the moderators for going off topic by discussing theology, now do we?
#14987131
skinster wrote:Complaining about someone else going off-topic when you already did is...weird. :D

Normal country:




Back on topic:


This guy doesn't care about the Christians in the Middle East, because he and his fellow true and genuine''Evangelicals'' basically don't consider Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics, or Oriental Orthodox(-if they even don't know much of anything about them-)as being really Christians. They only do so in mixed company to be polite. As an Orthodox Christian and married into a Russian family, I'm doubly suspicious in their eyes because of their insane interpretations of ''Gog and Magog'' prophesy make them hate Russia with a fanatical hatred that has nothing to do with the Cold War or Communism, because they think Russia will lead a Muslim coalition to invade Israel in the End Times. They think Syria should be destroyed, because they take a passage out of Scripture about Damascus being destroyed, and push their interpretation of that passage forwards to today's times and expect it to be fulfilled, all to fit their theories on when they can cheat a natural normal death...

They really don't care about Jews either, because they fully expect most of them to die during the End Times, and really only ''believe'' in the Jews and Israel to the extent that they think Israel will fulfill their theories on Biblical prophesy, and thus they think they'll know from that when they'll be ''raptured'' out of this world and as I said before cheat death and avoid the earthly torment and suffering they expect and even demand of the rest of us in the World during the End Times because of the twisted ideas they have.

This all sounds insane and it is, but I've got family and people I have known all my life that think just this way, and they are a huge base of support to President Trump in the USA. It's deeply sick in the same way Nazism and Fascism are, but cowardly because they expect everyone else to politically conform to this outline of future history-which they plan on God having them escape the consequences of. They push the United States and Israel to have hostile relations with a great deal of mankind. Thank God that ironically, Russia and Israel have fairly decent relations and always will contra the mad Evangelicals, even though Israel knows Russia always has fair relations and business with whoever rules in Tehran...

I know that this appears to be talking theology, but when you belong to basically a large death cult that hates other Christians who don't believe as they do, Russians and Muslims because they think they will invade the Holy Land, and only ''love'' Israel to the extent that Israel can be goaded and encouraged to immolate itself and the rest of the world for the sake of their being beamed up ''Star Trek'' style to avoid natural death....

Ideas have consequences, political consequences. Even sick ideas that the majority of the world's Christians reject as wrong, heretical, evil and blasphemous, no matter how soft and flaccid Christian leadership has become in condemning anyone for anything...

With ''friends'' who truly hate them inside like these Evangelicals do, Israelis doesn't need enemies.

This isn't ''theology'', this is pathology.
By Hindsite
#14987192
skinster wrote:Complaining about someone else going off-topic when you already did is...weird

Not so weird, because that is how I know the moderators don't like it.
#14987193
Hindsite wrote:Not so weird, because that is how I know the moderators don't like it.


Let's put it simply this way; you base your geopolitical views of today's world on your particular personal End Times theories, entirely. And then you expect other people to die and suffer because of those ideas.
By Hindsite
#14987196
annatar1914 wrote:Let's put it simply this way; you base your geopolitical views of today's world on your particular personal End Times theories, entirely. And then you expect other people to die and suffer because of those ideas.

I see nothing wrong with people having their own personal views about today's world. That does not mean other people have to suffer. That depends on actions.
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By annatar1914
#14987322
Hindsite wrote:I see nothing wrong with people having their own personal views about today's world. That does not mean other people have to suffer. That depends on actions.



''As a man thinketh, so is he''....

I think I have a pretty good idea of what you expect everyone else to do in this little theoretical prophesy drama you and your type think will happen. And don't believe that even every idle word doesn't have consequences here or hereafter. God judges the heart, and the actions which proceed from the heart.

That's a heavy responsibility, think about that.
By Hindsite
#14987413
annatar1914 wrote:''As a man thinketh, so is he''....

I think I have a pretty good idea of what you expect everyone else to do in this little theoretical prophesy drama you and your type think will happen. And don't believe that even every idle word doesn't have consequences here or hereafter. God judges the heart, and the actions which proceed from the heart.

That's a heavy responsibility, think about that.

Like I said before, perhaps you would do good to take your own advice if you are so bothered.
Praise and glory to the Lord.
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By annatar1914
#14987558
Hindsite wrote:Like I said before, perhaps you would do good to take your own advice if you are so bothered.


If I had my way, God help me, your death cult you appear to belong to would be history, a historical footnote of one of the many unfortunte ''doctrines of devils'' that wound up killing hundreds of thousands of people, maybe millions, before the foul heresy was stamped out of hearts and minds of it's delusional followers.
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