[Buzz62]

Very funny, Buzz.
BTW, the homophobic abuse was missing in your last post. Too much of a hurry to post your other rubbish???

Little boy...there isn't a homophobic bone in my body.
To me, the term PANSIE means:
Weakling who hides behind subterfuge and lies.
Scared little people who will can be identified during a bar-brawl as those hiding under the tables.

[Moshe]

pan·sy (pnz)
n. pl. pan·sies
. Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man
----http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pansy

I wonder at your obsession with homosexuality, Buzz

[Buzz62]

You may wonder Moshe...how's the light under that table son?

[Moshe]

You may wonder Moshe...how's the light under that table son?

Dear, oh, dear. No arguments at all, so it is back to childish abuse??

[Buzz62]

Ya gits whats y'all asks fer sonny-boy...

[Moshe]

Ya gits whats y'all asks fer sonny-boy...

Buzz, what the grown ups here are engaged in is debate. You are the only one here with the childish "yaa boo sucks" nonsense

[Rich]

I don't see people saying they will "wipe ireland off the map".

Ireland should certainly be be wiped off the map along with Austria and Belgium, after places such as Luxembourg and Monaco.

[Buzz62]

Buzz, what the grown ups here are engaged in is debate. You are the only one here with the childish "yaa boo sucks" nonsense

And you consider yourself "grown-up"?

Dude...a "grown-up" learns history and goes with it...not alter it to suite his or her fancies.

[Moshe]

Buzz, go and actually READ some history.
No Palestine

[Buzz62]

Buzz, go and actually READ some history.
No Palestine

OK...how about recent history?

In 1832 Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840 Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine

Any other Zionist lies you'd like me to beat you over the head with today son?

[Moshe]

What on earth is that supposed to prove, Buzz? Except that the territory was a subject of imperial rivalry as it had been for thousands of years.

[Buzz62]

NOTE
THE
NAME
OF
SAID
AREA!!

PALESTINE!!!

My Gawd Moshe...get a friggin' grip!

[Moshe]

As explained earlier, the Roman colonisers bestowed the name on the territory after they colonised it.

[Buzz62]

THAT WAS 2000 FUCKIN' YEARS AGO!!!

So what are you saying now?
Anything younger than...oh say, this age...is not real?

Why don't you cease and desist with this bullshit line of yours?
Its a lie...I know it...you know it...hell even the Zionist leaders know it.
All the denial of the existence of Palestine and the Palestinian people does...is expose your racism and aggravate an already bad situation.

[IQless1]

Excuse me while I ready myself...

(squats down, pushes face inwards, practices ululating)

(clears throat) Ok, ready.

Who is this "Iran"? Is this a person? ...No? ...What is it then? (hushed response in background) A country? Really? You are the bull, shitting on me, yes?...No?

No-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no-no...This is complete lie. A fabrication by infidels. It is clear that Iran does not exist, that it has never existed. This is plot by our enemies, to make us the fooled-like ones...like that American bush-man...he does not like being fooled...and neither do us!

(ululates) Forgive me, I have cold. Now, where was I? Yes? Yes. Oh, right...Down with the infidels!

(stands up)Now that was unpleasant. No wonder the little guy is so confused...all he sees is (_l_) all day.

[Wrath_014]

THAT WAS 2000 FUCKIN' YEARS AGO!!!

So what are you saying now?
Anything younger than...oh say, this age...is not real?

Why don't you cease and desist with this bullshit line of yours?
Its a lie...I know it...you know it...hell even the Zionist leaders know it.
All the denial of the existence of Palestine and the Palestinian people does...is expose your racism and aggravate an already bad situation.

I must ask.
What is your relationship with this conflict? (IL-PL)

I gotta know before I continue..
And please, for the sake of this argument, answer without any sarcastic remark.

[Buzz62]

My relationship is this.

I was about 12 before anyone told me that one of my grandmothers was Jewish.
At the time that meant nothing to me. She still made the world's best roast beef and yorkshire pudding, and she was still the most caring, tiny little fuss-pot of a woman I'd ever met.
Her husband...and Irish-Catholic beer-drinker who served with Canada in WWII...never spoke of it, and the 2 of them never attended any sort of church services.

As I aged, I became inquisitive and began asking my grandmother questions about this.
What she told me was...in essence...that according to her older siblings, her family had suffered the indignities of racism in Europe, and as WWI was beginning, her parents decided to send their kids to "The New World" as orphans, in order to escape the war, and to have a fresh start. Gran'ma was a child then, and was not aware of these events until she herself was a married woman.

Her stance on Israel was one of pragmatism. She was deeply disappointed in the Israelis. She found it an affront to her heritage that Jewish people...of all the people of the world...would practice such selfish and arrogant policies in the process of taking control of Palestine. She wished both peoples could get along and make a country together, but she saw the events in Israel as an insult to her and the Jewish people.

For a woman who's only apparent goal in life was to serve others and make everyone happy...she was startlingly profound.
I have adopted her beliefs about Israel, and expanded upon them after quite a bit of reading and research.

The only REAL experience I have with Jewish people is an aged, 5 foot nothing little cook from the local hospital, who's heart was bigger than her whole body. My grandmother loved everyone. It was impossible for her to hate. Yet she found sadness and disappointment in her own people and the country they had begotten.

[MVictorP]

I think the zionists on the board just can't offer a good discussion. All they do is crying wolf and apply obvious double standards. Usually, it took at least a couple of posts before hurling feces like "anti-semite". Nowadays that's the first defense. Where are the danholos?

Zionists, face this fact; Israel is the first reason the rest of the world have to hate you. It is a rogue nation, an unjust nation built on apartheism and at war with all of its neighbours since its artificial rebirth. Israel is an abomination - and I for one, wish to see it "wiped off the map/history books" or whatever. Same thing for Saudi Arabia.

Another fact: If it's alright to hate and aiming to eliminate the Muslim fate, or some Arab/Persian nation, then it is alright to want the same for you, given all the malignant shit you are brewing in the levant. Enough with the sacred cows - stop hating everyone else but your little tribe and then things should go uphill from there, ya bunch of fucking racists.

[Dormin]

A question for you Buzz? has your grandmother ever lived in Israel? you lived in Israel?

I ask this because I see quite a pattern with the anti zionists

"We critisize you alot because you are suposed to know better! you sufferd through the holocoust!"

Or rather yet, here's something Taliz wrote in another topic

I may pretty harsh in my criticism, but that is because I have high expectations for what Israel could be, instead of what it is. While on the Palestinian side I'm probably not as harsh as I should be, but I don't have such high expectation for them by way of how the other Arab/Islamic states have turned out (poor human rights, poor laws, terrible leadership, religious extremism, need I say more).

See now, that's the thing you europeans will quite never understand.

The middle east is -not- like Europe, it's -not- like America. It's easy to question our morals when you live comfortably, when you don't fear for your life, but the sad fact is that we can't afford these luxerius, we can't afford to be too naive because they are -so- many, and we are so little. you honestly believe the arab world is just made of poor wittle farmers who suffer under the Israeli heel? look around you! when they aren't busy trying to kill us, they are busy killing each -other-! it's not that I think the arab people are violent, but their culture as of now sure is! So yes, we occupy the palistinans, yes, we threaten war against Iran, but in this given situasion, you honestly think -your- people would have done better?

You have good intentions Buzz, but you could use -alot- more humility.

You don't hold any "facts". Just random articles you pieced together from Wikipedia

You don't have the "Truth". you are just some dude from Canada who never even visited here and get an actual insight about what happens.

Try this, admit that maybe you -don't- have all the answers, book a trip to israel, visit the settlements, piss off some soldiers, get -both- sides of the story, come back, and tell us what you think


Oh, and just so you know, I lived here all my life, I studied this subject -riogusly- I know both palistinans and israelis, and I -still- don't know what the hell can be done here, how it can this shitstorm be fixed.

[MVictorP]

Now this more what I came here for.

A question for you Buzz? has your grandmother ever lived in Israel? you lived in Israel?

I ask this because I see quite a pattern with the anti zionists

"We critisize you alot because you are suposed to know better! you sufferd through the holocoust!"

(...)See now, that's the thing you europeans will quite never understand.

The middle east is -not- like Europe, it's -not- like America. It's easy to question our morals when you live comfortably, when you don't fear for your life, but the sad fact is that we can't afford these luxerius, we can't afford to be too naive because they are -so- many, and we are so little.

"You" were even less before 1948 and yet you had a brighter future than you have today. We expect some occidental values from Israel, because that's always what Israel uses to sell itself to the west - look at our nice, west-like society, and then look at their barbarous ones!!!

Israel is a nation that was conceived in the occident, not in the physical place it hold in the levant.

you honestly believe the arab world is just made of poor wittle farmers who suffer under the Israeli heel? look around you! when they aren't busy trying to kill us, they are busy killing each -other-! it's not that I think the arab people are violent, but their culture as of now sure is! So yes, we occupy the palistinans, yes, we threaten war against Iran, but in this given situasion, you honestly think -your- people would have done better?

There. You do it - exactly like I wrote, You are facing "savages". Yet, they wouldn't be so savage, maybe, if we (the west) didn't fuck their nascent democraties or exploit them for their ressources while corrupting their lofty monarchs. The division of the Arabs/Persian (okay, granted, that was rather easy) is essential to occidental interest in the region. God preserve us from an unified front! As long as their only choices are absolute monarchy or Islamist regime, things will go the west's way.