[roxunreal]

Yesterday in Syria, terrorists who are AKA moderate-rebels by retarded westerners, blew up buses evacuating Syrian civilians from rebel-held territory to government-held areas, killing over 120 people.

I'm sure it was a government/Russian false flag operation to discredit the rebels after all the fallout Assad got from the CW attack in Khan Shaykhun. Either tht or Mossad, Mossad is always the placeholder for anything bad that happened anywhere

Actually there's been no investigation done on the convoy bombing so how dare you suggest it was the rebels

On a more serious note, the woman in your video is so intensely unconvincing and her account has such gaping loopholes in it that I felt embarrassed for watching it to the end. "They brought chips and lured the children before blowing up!" with an explosion that literally killed 130 people and obliterated any vehicles or anything else for dozens of meters in any direction, but she somehow managed to see that they were dealing chips to kids moments before it happened, escaped unharmed and lost no one except "her nephew", and then even gave an elaborate description of it all hours later without so much as blinking, let alone showing any kind off genuine shock or distress. What a pile of horse shit propaganda shamelessly exploiting this attack and its victims just to add a bit of extra dirt on the deed, as if what happened wasn't enough. It's shit like this that's the reason no one will ever take the Syrian state's claims seriously, even in the case where they are right.

[Heisenberg]

I think the message is to treat all stories coming from the middle of a warzone with scepticism. The old saying that "The truth is the first casualty of war" should be branded on journalists' foreheads, since they seem incapable of following it. I'd like to see you apply some of the scepticism you show towards claims made by the Syrians and the Russians, to claims made by the al-Nusra Front and other assorted jihadist groups.

[Hindsite]

That is blatantly not true. Who was dismantling Assads chemical arsenal? Was it not European and American specialists with the logistical assistance from Russia?

On 23 June, the head of OPCW, Ahmet Üzümcü, announced in The Hague that the last of Syria's declared chemical weapons had been shipped out of the country for destruction. The last 8% of the chemical stockpile was loaded onto ships at Latakia. The most toxic chemicals, including sarin precursors and sulphur mustard, were destroyed by 18 August aboard the US naval vessel MV Cape Ray. The remaining were destroyed in the US, Great Britain and Finland. On 4 January 2015, the OPCW confirmed that the destruction was completed.

That can't be true because Assad just used chemical weapons this year.

[Decky]

The American backed Jihadists used chemical weapons this year not Assad.

[JohnRawls]

That can't be true because Assad just used chemical weapons this year.

If it was Assad then what is the reasoning behind his CW usage? What did he had to gain by using them on civilians in a middle of nowhere?

[Hindsite]

If it was Assad then what is the reasoning behind his CW usage? What did he had to gain by using them on civilians in a middle of nowhere?

I guess you will have to ask Assad that question. I am just an observer of the fact.

[Typhoon]

Syria gave up its CWs in 2014 and this was confirmed by the UN and U.S. Also, when are you talking about when you said Syrians used chemical agents?

The destruction of the declared agents was confirmed by the OPCW (with some outstanding issues) but there has always been a concern regarding undeclared stocks. How complete were Syrian records for example, were all depots successfully evacuated if they fell into rebel hands? There are many issues, this is further complicated by weapons potentially leaking in from outside, whatever IS has been able to get its hands on etc.

Syria used (as in exploited) its chemical arsenal to act as a deterrent, this doctrine helped shape the nature of the arsenal.

That can't be true because Assad just used chemical weapons this year.

True with respect to chlorine but in the case of the recent sarin incident, we cannot know for sure.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Assad has nothing to gain by using CW on anyone at a time when the Turks would love to distract from domestic troubles to someone like Assad, when the Saudis would like people to forget about their barbarism in Yemen by focusing the world's attention on Assad, and when America is still looking for excuses to attack Syria. There is no benefit to Assad earning condemnation from the rest of the world, especially considering the tide has slowly been turning in his favor.

People have apparently also forgotten about that one time chemical weapons were "used by Assad" the same day the UN sent inspectors to monitor Syria's use of weapons. Assad is a dictator but he knows it is literally insane to use CW while multiple nations openly and illegally meddle in your country to try and overthrow you.

It's surprising how gullible people are to fall for this obvious bullshit about "Assad used CW." It's so obvious that it's elementary that Assad is not the one who has used CW in Syria for the second time.

[Hindsite]

It's surprising how gullible people are to fall for this obvious bullshit about "Assad used CW." It's so obvious that it's elementary that Assad is not the one who has used CW in Syria for the second time.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

[Igor Antunov]

Turkey has attacked the SDF. As predicted.

[mikema63]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

*gasp*

[Ter]

*gasp*

you too, Mike ?

[mikema63]

[Godstud]

False flag? Yes indeed.
MIT Expert, Fmr DoD Science Advisor Release Damning Report: “Syrian Gas Attack Was Staged”
Postol said: “I have reviewed the [White House’s] document carefully, and I believe it can be shown, without doubt, that the document does not provide any evidence whatsoever that the US government has concrete knowledge that the government of Syria was the source of the chemical attack in Khan Sheikhoun, Syria at roughly 6am to 7am on 4 April, 2017.

“In fact, a main piece of evidence that is cited in the document point to an attack that was executed by individuals on the ground, not from an aircraft, on the morning of 4 April.

“This conclusion is based on an assumption made by the White House when it cited the source of the sarin release and the photographs of that source. My own assessment is that the source was very likely tampered with or staged, so no serious conclusion could be made from the photographs cited by the White House.”

Postol notes that the canister appears to have been clearly smashed on the ground and not launched from a plane as the United States contests.

“The explosive acted on the pipe as a blunt crushing mallet,” Postol said. “It drove the pipe into the ground while at the same time creating the crater.

“Since the pipe was filled with sarin, which is an incompressible fluid, as the pipe was flattened, the sarin acted on the walls and ends of the pipe causing a crack along the length of the pipe and also the failure of the cap on the back end.”

Postol said: “No competent analyst would miss the fact that the alleged sarin canister was forcefully crushed from above, rather than exploded by a munition within it.

“All of these highly amateurish mistakes indicate that this White House report, like the earlier Obama White House Report [from Ghouta in 2013], was not properly vetted by the intelligence community as claimed.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/mit-ex ... as-staged/

[GandalfTheGrey]

On a more serious note, the woman in your video is so intensely unconvincing and her account has such gaping loopholes in it that I felt embarrassed for watching it to the end. "They brought chips and lured the children before blowing up!" with an explosion that literally killed 130 people and obliterated any vehicles or anything else for dozens of meters in any direction, but she somehow managed to see that they were dealing chips to kids moments before it happened, escaped unharmed and lost no one except "her nephew", and then even gave an elaborate description of it all hours later without so much as blinking, let alone showing any kind off genuine shock or distress. What a pile of horse shit propaganda shamelessly exploiting this attack and its victims just to add a bit of extra dirt on the deed, as if what happened wasn't enough. It's shit like this that's the reason no one will ever take the Syrian state's claims seriously, even in the case where they are right.

I don't think its too far fetched at all. You would notice hundreds of kids running towards something excitedly, and you wouldn't have to be in the blast zone to find out why. Besides, her story is corroborated by other eye witnesses -eg:

A wounded girl, who said she lost her four siblings in the blast, told Al-Manar TV from her hospital bed that children who had been deprived of food for years in the two villages were approached by a man in the car who told them to come and eat potato chips.

She said once many had gathered, there was an explosion that tore some of the children to pieces.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-17/s ... en/8447104

The same story is being reported by our old friend in London who calls himself the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights - who is notoriously anti regime.

The fact that there was such a disproportionate number of children killed (at least half of them) also gives weight to the story.

This same tactic has been done before in Iraq by the Zarqawi thugs (forerunner to today's ISIS), so no one should be surprised when its done again in a place where there are feral Islamists running around everywhere.

[Hindsite]

I don't think its too far fetched at all. You would notice hundreds of kids running towards something excitedly, and you wouldn't have to be in the blast zone to find out why. Besides, her story is corroborated by other eye witnesses -eg:

The same story is being reported by our old friend in London who calls himself the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights - who is notoriously anti regime.

The fact that there was such a disproportionate number of children killed (at least half of them) also gives weight to the story.

This same tactic has been done before in Iraq by the Zarqawi thugs (forerunner to today's ISIS), so no one should be surprised when its done again in a place where there are feral Islamists running around everywhere.

Are you suggesting that our great American intelligence community is wrong again?
Could they be wrong about Russia meddling in the American Presidential election too?

[GandalfTheGrey]

What are you talking about hindsite? America hasn't said anything about this attack that I know about.

[Eamonor]

Of course the Syria situation is complicated and if anyone has sources to refute this video that would be great to see but until that happens this is the stance I am taking on the gas attacks

[roxunreal]

I think the message is to treat all stories coming from the middle of a warzone with scepticism. The old saying that "The truth is the first casualty of war" should be branded on journalists' foreheads, since they seem incapable of following it. I'd like to see you apply some of the scepticism you show towards claims made by the Syrians and the Russians, to claims made by the al-Nusra Front and other assorted jihadist groups.

Where did I just embrace "claims made by Nusra et al?" What claims of relevance did Nusra even make recently?

I support Russia's intervention and have called out the hysterical media BS surrounding Aleppo before it fell, and I'm no supporter of Trump's recent adventure. This doesn't mean I won't criticize where it's due, or that I find Assad's regime inherently good in any way apart from the fact that its (hostile) opponents are mostly jihadists. That also doesn't mean that I'll ignore the weight of the evidence tipping the blame for sarin attacks on Assad's side, even though, as I already said, I don't believe he gave the order himself, or that he even knew anything about it.

No one here even supports HTS, as opposed to the people who still believe that "Assad did nothing wrong".

Assad has nothing to gain by using CW on anyone at a time when the Turks would love to distract from domestic troubles to someone like Assad, when the Saudis would like people to forget about their barbarism in Yemen by focusing the world's attention on Assad

What are you even talking about? Turkey is exactly the opposite of being in domestic troubles and no one ever gave a shit about the bombing of Yemen for longer than a day.

People have apparently also forgotten about that one time chemical weapons were "used by Assad" the same day the UN sent inspectors to monitor Syria's use of weapons. Assad is a dictator but he knows it is literally insane to use CW while multiple nations openly and illegally meddle in your country to try and overthrow you.

Having or not having a motive doesn't magically trump all other evidence pointing to just how absurdly implausible the theories blaming the rebels for Ghouta are. Sadly, few sources/people compile all of the known facts into one easy to read text showing the big picture of such an undertaking, but this this excellent and sourced write up did a pretty good job recently:

The East Ghouta Sarin attack exceeded the rebels ability to manufacture and deploy Sarin at a large scale. About 400 to 720 liters of Sarin was used in the attack. Furthermore, the Sarin was delivered using a type of large truck launched IRAM (Lob bomb) rocket only used by Syrian government forces and Hezbollah - the 330mm volcano rocket (Burcan).

Also, Sarin is extremely difficult to manufacture. The process generates corrosive hydrofluoric acid. In military Sarin production plants, pipes and reaction vessels are made from extremely corrosion resistant Hast Alloy or silver. Liters of Sarin cannot be made using a simple bench top laboratory.

Interior of Japanese Aum cult's Sarin plant, Satyen 7


The Aum Cult in Japan spent $30 million building Satyen 7. It was built and staffed by 100 cult members, some with PhDs in Chemistry. They also bribed the secretary of the Russian Security Council, Oleg Lobov, 10 million yen for information on how to make Sarin; in a trip to Russia they visited Aleksandr Rutskoy, Ruslan Khasbulatov, and Lobov in an attempt to discover an more efficient process of making Sarin. It was a giant operation, not a little bench top lab.

The Aum cult's operation was beset by problems, a stainless steel stirrer dissolved at stage 4 of the reaction and a glass reaction vessel partly dissolved, turning the Sarin blue; they made just under 60 liters of Sarin over 18 months, of variable purity (7 liters were used in the Tokyo subway attack).

Despite their best efforts, Aum failed to produce anywhere as much Sarin used in the East Ghouta Attack. That attack used at least 8 and possibly as many as 12 rockets of a type (Volcano/Burkan) only ever used by Syrian government forces, each carrying between 50 to 60 liters of Sarin (see page 24 in the UN report on the East Ghouta Sarin attack);

Thus a total of 400 to 720 liters of Sarin was used in the East Ghouta attack.

And then there's Hexamine found in the Sarin residues by the UN weapons inspectors that investigated the Sarin attack. The Syrian Syrian government used hexamine in their Sarin production process, as an acid scavenger, according to the head of the UN/OPCW inspection mission Ake Sellstrom in an interview with a journalist from CBRNe World:

CBRNe World: Why was hexamine on the list of chemical scheduled to be destroyed – it has many other battlefield uses as well as Sarin? Did you request to put it on the list or had the Syrian’s claimed that they were using it?

Sellstrom: It is in their formula, it is their acid scavenger.

The Syrian Government handed 80 tonnes of hexamine of when it decommissioned it CWs and precursor chemicals. So it strongly suggest that Syrian government Sarin was used in the East Ghouta attack.

To sum up:

Syria has acknowledged that hexamine is part of its formula for producing Sarin. Nobody else used Hexamine to make Sarin. Hexamine was found in the field samples collected by UN inspectors in East Ghouta after the attacks. Syria surrendered 80 tons of hexamine for CW destruction. The Sarin was delivered using Burkan/Volcano rockets, a rocket only used by Syrian government forces and Hezbollah.

A false flag flag attack would require the following:

- Steal 400 to 750 liters of Syria government Sarin.
- Steal 8 to 12 Burkan rockets.
- Steal a double barrel 330 mm Burkan launch vehicle.
- Steal most likely more than one articulated lorries used for transporting 8 to 12 Burkan rockets.
- Organise and train dozens of rebels to transport and deploy 400 to 750 liters of extremely toxic Sarin... aim, fire and reload a Burkan launcher without killing themselves or leaking Sarin before the false flag attack.
- Operate a crane, possibly on yet another truck, to reload the double barreled Burkan launcher.
- Smuggling all this into East Ghouta, which was under a siege.

Link with references
https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar ... rding_the/

I don't think its too far fetched at all. You would notice hundreds of kids running towards something excitedly, and you wouldn't have to be in the blast zone to find out why. Besides, her story is corroborated by other eye witnesses

I don't find such a possibility surprising as much as I just see that the woman in that video is bullshitting to a painfully obvious degree (even part of the video is cut out lol). The other thing is that an explosion of this magnitude can kill you and will probably a least severely injure you up to a distance between 50-100m. Bonding mines can kill people at over 50m distance, and their explosion is at least dozens of times weaker than this. Literally all vehicles within 10m of the blast are burnt out wrecks.

The same story is being reported by our old friend in London who calls himself the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights - who is notoriously anti regime.

He hasn't been notoriously anti-regime since late 2013 or early 2014, as a matter of fact if I remember correctly, by the second half of 2013 he was regularly reporting about rebel war crimes.

The fact that there was such a disproportionate number of children killed (at least half of them) also gives weight to the story.

Children were the disproportionate demographic of that convoy to begin with, it consisted almost exclusively of women and children, the men remain in the Shia villages and are the last in line to be truced out of them.

[Hindsite]

Of course the Syria situation is complicated and if anyone has sources to refute this video that would be great to see but until that happens this is the stance I am taking on the gas attacks

If General "Mad Dog" Mattis says he has personally reviewed the classified intelligence and it is clear that Syria is responsible for the Chemical attack, then I will take his word as truth. That is all I have to say about that matter.