Syrian war thread - Page 141 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14886944
I think you're jumping the gun. We know these attacks are nothing more than the autistic spasms of a failing foreign policy, one created by the neocons of the Bush era and further nurtured by Obama and his Clintonian succubus. Trump is just letting the coalition in Syria jerk itself to irrelevance, he seems more invested in his battle with the FBI/Deep State.

i.e they are ineffective in stopping what is apparent-the continued consolidation of Russian position in Syria. The prospect of 'regime change' in Syria is at this point...laughable.

Turkey has its own foreign policy, one that runs closer in tandem with that of Russia than that of the west. This becomes more obvious every passing day.
User avatar
By roxunreal
#14886957
A more conservative and believable number of SAA casualties in the latest US attack is 25, coming from Hassan Ridha's Twitter. For those who are unaware, this has been the most reliable and down-to-Earth pro-government Twitter account for years now.

In any case, I hope those bathing in wet dreams of the US abandoning the SDF over Turkish tantrums any time soon have had (another) rude awakening. The SDF is here to stay.
User avatar
By Balancer
#14886959
Interesting insider information surfaced. I do not know how reliable it is, but it can explain how it was possible to get the body of a pilot so quickly. Usually negotiations go much longer.

1. After Russia asked Turkey to help with the return of Filipov's body to Russia, the fighters of An-Nusra began to prepare for trade, with the purpose of exchanging Filipov's body for several of his accomplices in Asad who, in the interests of Russia, can free some number of fighters for body exchange.

2. But the unforeseen happened. Another group (called "Fallah al-Sham") stole Filipov's body from An-Nusra and handed it over to the Turks, who in turn gave it to Russia. According to the statements of An-Nusra, the body was returned "free of charge" and without any benefit to the "defenders of Idlib".

3. The leadership of "An-Nusra" promises to punish all those involved in this betrayal, and first of all the agents of Turkey, who betrayed the cause of jihad, choosing the side of Turkey, and not the faithful Muslims.
By Atlantis
#14886961
Igor Antunov wrote:I think you're jumping the gun. We know these attacks are nothing more than the autistic spasms of a failing foreign policy, one created by the neocons of the Bush era and further nurtured by Obama and his Clintonian succubus. Trump is just letting the coalition in Syria jerk itself to irrelevance, he seems more invested in his battle with the FBI/Deep State.


Trump is serving the deep state and the empire. He couldn't be president otherwise.

If he had wanted to abandon the Kurds, he could have done so now. The fact that Tillerson announced a permanent US presence in Syria and the formation of a Kurdish force supported by the US means they intend to stay either to split Syria or to destabilize the Assad regime with the aim of regime change, or both.

Even if the US will avoid direct confrontation with the Russians in Syria, they'll probably try to hit Assad's troops wherever they can. It's going to be one of those eternal frozen conflicts, with each side testing the resolve of the other from time to time.

But both sides are using proxy forces they can't control. So nobody can predict what will happen.

Turkey has its own foreign policy, one that runs closer in tandem with that of Russia than that of the west. This becomes more obvious every passing day.


Turkey is still Nato member, and even though they go to the limit, they wouldn't switch sides. To Erdogan, there is no benefit in being a Russian vassal.

Turkish policy of reviving the Ottoman empire by exploiting the Arab Spring has spectacularly backfired. Turkey today is more isolated than ever.
#14887001
SDF will exist about as long as any other US backed proxy rebel group in the past, i.e when the wars over they get dropped like a bad smell. See Iraq Shiite regime. Now owned and operated by Iran.

Turkey is still Nato member, and even though they go to the limit, they wouldn't switch sides. To Erdogan, there is no benefit in being a Russian vassal.


Misrepresentation. Turkey can either be a maligned NATO vassal, a leper as seen by the rest of Europe, or ditch NATO and start recreating the Neo-Ottoman Empire. Russia would oblige because the Arabs can't govern themselves to any effective standard and a friendly Turkey means the strategic question of the Bosporus is moot.
By Atlantis
#14887157
@Igor Antunov, the Kurds won't just evaporate into thin air when the US leaves. They will continue to exist as a political force and most likely a military force. They need to chose their allies wisely.

It doesn't make any sense to me, but the US is determined to stay to fuck with Assad and Iran. Their whole strategy of supporting Israel and undermining Iran makes this necessary. They obviously don't care about the bloodbath that results from their strategy, but as long as they are willing to pour resources into it, they won't be dislodge unless the Kurds switch alliance. Assad depends entirely on foreign powers for his survival and the Iranians don't have unlimited resources to prop him up.

As far as I'm concerned, you are welcome to have Turkey. The European parliament condemned Turkey today and Merkel said that EU accession talks will be frozen until Erdogan mends his ways. Erdogan sounds like a lunatic, but he is calculating enough to know that the West is far more beneficial to Turkey than Russia. And all that Neo-Ottoman crap never was going to work.
User avatar
By roxunreal
#14887158
Balancer wrote:2. But the unforeseen happened. Another group (called "Fallah al-Sham") stole Filipov's body from An-Nusra and handed it over to the Turks, who in turn gave it to Russia. According to the statements of An-Nusra, the body was returned "free of charge" and without any benefit to the "defenders of Idlib".


That's the rebels for you, fighting even over a corpse.

It's also why inviting them to Sochi or any other conference is hilarious. Even if they came o an agreement the rebels would just split over it internally and only a part of them would agree. They're literally what feudal Europe was, a bunch of fragmented fiefdoms under the nominal control of the strongest (HTS), but just barely.

Igor Antunov wrote:SDF will exist about as long as any other US backed proxy rebel group in the past, i.e when the wars over


For America the war ill be over when Iran becomes a pro-western state, which will happen between 50 years from now and never. Syria will literally change regimes and borders several times before something like that happens lol.



Turkey can either be a maligned NATO vassal, a leper as seen by the rest of Europe, or ditch NATO and start recreating the Neo-Ottoman Empire. Russia would oblige


Riiiight, because Russia and Turkey totally aren't geopolitical rivals for centuries and counting. Turkish expansion is directly at odds with Russian and Iranian interests, there will never be anything but a tactical and pragmatist flirting between them.
By skinster
#14887297
Igor Antunov wrote:If those claims of SAA casualties from the US attack are correct, then something fucky is going on.


:lol:

Igor Antunov wrote:We know these attacks are nothing more than the autistic spasms of a failing foreign policy, one created by the neocons of the Bush era and further nurtured by Obama and his Clintonian succubus. Trump is just letting the coalition in Syria jerk itself to irrelevance, he seems more invested in his battle with the FBI/Deep State.


:lol:

I think someone has to break the news to you that president's campaign promises aren't necessarily followed through. You got played by Trump. He is carrying on the job that began with Bush and was continued by Obama.

This is the situation:

Atlantis wrote:Trump is serving the deep state and the empire. He couldn't be president otherwise.


Why the fuck do you think there are thousands of American soldiers on the ground? For fun? Did the Syrian government invite them? Do the Syrians consider them as allies? Do the Russians?

Accept it already, Igor. Trump is like all the rest. He can't be anything but like them, or he would've been removed by now. I mean what do you think the ever-so-public US attacks on the Syrian airbase were? Gifts?





User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14887903
Oxymoron wrote:I think Syria is about to loose its air defences again.


Do you really think it was the Syrians that shot the plane down? :lol: Right after the Russian jet? :lol:
Don't you think that they are related events?
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#14887924
JohnRawls wrote:Do you really think it was the Syrians that shot the plane down? :lol: Right after the Russian jet? :lol:
Don't you think that they are related events?


Interesting angle, so are you saying Israel had something to do with the Su25?
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14888061
Oxymoron wrote:Interesting angle, so are you saying Israel had something to do with the Su25?


May be, there are 2 options:

1) Either this is a way to say " stop delivering weapons to the rebels because we can do the same "

2) It is a message to the US about the same reason because Russia and US are not allowed to shoot each other jets down.
By foxdemon
#14888065
Atlantis wrote:@Igor Antunov, the Kurds won't just evaporate into thin air when the US leaves. They will continue to exist as a political force and most likely a military force. They need to chose their allies wisely.

It doesn't make any sense to me, but the US is determined to stay to fuck with Assad and Iran. Their whole strategy of supporting Israel and undermining Iran makes this necessary. They obviously don't care about the bloodbath that results from their strategy, but as long as they are willing to pour resources into it, they won't be dislodge unless the Kurds switch alliance. Assad depends entirely on foreign powers for his survival and the Iranians don't have unlimited resources to prop him up.

As far as I'm concerned, you are welcome to have Turkey. The European parliament condemned Turkey today and Merkel said that EU accession talks will be frozen until Erdogan mends his ways. Erdogan sounds like a lunatic, but he is calculating enough to know that the West is far more beneficial to Turkey than Russia. And all that Neo-Ottoman crap never was going to work.


What I am curious about is will Europe get involved?

Putin is doing a good job at gaining control over Europe’s energy supplies. From Russia, to the ME and now he is getting involved in Libya. What will the EU do when Putin decides it is time to strangle Europe? Will you cede the Ukraine and the Baltic states to get a settlement?

And of course, there are all those refugees that poured into Europe and pushed the political mood to the right. Now Turkey is at odds with the rest of NATO. The US and UK have scummed to influence campaigns and are at odds with the EU.

Beyond Europe, Israel and Saudi Arabia are losing the proxy war against Iran and need to negotiate with Moscow to hold them back. Meanwhile in Washington all anyone is interested in is catching guys who pinched women on the bum.

Well played Mr Putin.
By Atlantis
#14888074
@foxdemon, we have had very good experience with Russian gas and oil supplies. Even during the cold war, Russia has always been a reliable business partner. What's more, as new supplies come on the market and as the share of renewables increases, Russia needs the EU more than vise-versa. I would be much more worried about having to rely on US supplies because the US never hesitates to use sanctions against friends and foes alike.

Europe has to bear the cost of the Ukraine conflict, which was triggered by Washington. It is European countries that pay for the sanctions not the US. I expect a rapprochement with Russia as the UK/US move further away.

After destabilizing the ME for 15 years, nobody can pretend that the US military presence has any positive effect. We have to be grateful to Putin for containing the terrorists let loose by the US and its proxies.
By Sivad
#14888140
Now Mattis Admits There Was No Evidence Assad Used Poison Gas on His People

Lost in the hyper-politicized hullabaloo surrounding the Nunes Memorandum and the Steele Dossier was the striking statement by Secretary of Defense James Mattis that the U.S. has “no evidence” that the Syrian government used the banned nerve agent Sarin against its own people.

This assertion flies in the face of the White House (NSC) Memorandum which was rapidly produced and declassified to justify an American Tomahawk missile strike against the Shayrat airbase in Syria.

Mattis offered no temporal qualifications, which means that both the 2017 event in Khan Sheikhoun and the 2013 tragedy in Ghouta are unsolved cases in the eyes of the Defense Department and Defense Intelligence Agency.

Now its own military boss has said on the record that we have no evidence to support this conclusion. In so doing, Mattis tacitly impugned the interventionists who were responsible for pushing the “Assad is guilty” narrative twice without sufficient supporting evidence, at least in the eyes of the Pentagon.

[...]

This dissonance between the White House and the Department of Defense is especially troubling when viewed against the chorus of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) experts who have been questioning the (Obama and Trump) White House narratives concerning chemical weapons in Syria since practically the moment these “Assad-ordered events” occurred.

Serious, experienced chemical weapons experts and investigators such as Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, Gareth Porter and Theodore Postol have all cast doubt on “official” American narratives regarding President Assad employing Sarin.

These analysts have all focused on the technical aspects of the two attacks and found them not to be consistent with the use of nation-state quality Sarin munitions.
By Atlantis
#14888141
There is nothing new under the sun.

The US had no evidence for Assad's use of chemical weapons.
The US had no evidence for Saddam's WMD.
The US had no evidence for the Soviet arms build-up during the cold war.
The US had no evidence for the Nazis building a nuclear bomb.

What pretext are they going to use for their next war? The defense of humans rights again?

That is so credible with the millions of refugees from America's wars that are granted asylum in the US. :knife:

At least after the Vietnam war, the US still had the moral rectitude to take care of most of the boat people. Most people don't realize how callous the US has become since.
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