[Ter]

@Tailz so we don't let the Jews have their own country?

Here, fixed that for you.

[Tailz]

@Tailz so we don't let the Palestinians have their own country?

You may find this difficult to understand, but I don't support ether side in this shit storm. My preference is no nation state (your just setting up future nationalist divisions for the future), I I do like the idea of the acceptance of the concept that both peoples call that geographic area their homeland. oh and before you start, acknowledging that those people call that area their homeland, should not give them any special privileges beyond everyone else - as that too just sets up bias and bigotry for a future date.

"You're a native of area X, good on ya!. Now pass me the cookie jar!"

Think of it like this, in Europe, there are areas where overlaps of ethnic groups exist. EG: areas where the Dutch and the French overlap, or where the French and Germans overlap, etc. Both peoples can acknowledge each others native presence without killing each other. Although you will always have some who want it all to themselves.

So no, I don't think the Palestinians should have a singular ethno-religious state, nether the Jews, or the Christians, or Buddhists, or the followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. As your just creating xenophobia and giving it legal justification.

But that given, to resolve this conflict in the short term. A separation of both groups, Israeli's and Palestinians (note I use the Nationalist terms, not the ethno-religious terms). May be the best and shortest route to stopping the shit storm.... in the short term... in the long term it is going to be a lot more difficult.

Here, fixed that for you.

Oh Ter, you're a funny fellow. Oh how I missed your wit.

[MememyselfandIJK]

@Ter What do you think Israel is? The Palestinians don't want Israel, Israelis don't want the Palestinians. Its a win-win

[skinster]

You may find this difficult to understand, but I don't support ether side in this shit storm.

Your post suggests there is an equal fight between zionists and Palestinians, that there isn't an oppressor and oppressed involved in this so-called conflict, that there isn't a hyper-militarized and nuclear-armed-to-the-teeth state, an international-law-violating expansionist state that starts wars with its neighbours every few years (which led Prof Finkelstein to refer to it as a "lunatic state"), versus an occupied group who have few or no rights, including those who live in concentration-camp-like conditions. Sure, their leadership might have sold them down the river, but does that mean we stop supporting those who are enslaved in 2017?

I support a one-state solution too, but zionists won't allow for that since they're racist and don't think Palestinians should be afforded equal rights.

Anyway, your post made me think of some famous quotes:

Silence is complicity. Neutrality is complicity. To speak out against injustice is a moral imperative.

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

To be neutral, to be passive in a situation, is to collaborate with whatever is going on.

Silence becomes cowardice when occasion demands speaking out the whole truth and acting accordingly.

Lying is done with words, and also with silence.

We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of Palestinians.

It would be my great sadness to see zionist do to Palestinians much of what Nazis did to Jews.

[Zionist Nationalist]

We dont want a one state solution because we dont want to live in a country like South Africa or Lebanon for obvious reasons

[skinster]

If you don't like the country you settled in, you could simply go back to Russia. You're not even Jewish. You're not even religious. I don't even know how you justify it. Might = right? At least the religious lot can blame it on some fake-religious shit, what's your excuse?

[Zionist Nationalist]

Im an Immigrant and I support the country I live in I dont have to be Jewish or religious there are even plenty of Arabs who support the state they live in.

I didnt said I dont like the country I just dont want it to merge with some savages who will turn everything to shit like what happened in south africa
or to have a country with constant sectarian violence

[skinster]

If you don't want the country to be one-state, then you should be supporting a two-state solution, allow the Palestinians their own state SEPARATE FROM YOU SINCE YOU'RE RACIST and there could be a chance of peace, but zionists-like-you think it's okay to enslave people but act surprised when the natives or their supporters complain. You'll never have peace until Palestinians are free. Is this how you wish to live for the rest of your life? There is no other solution, short of genociding the Palestinians, and I think this late into the game, that's not an option for you.

The converts are usually the most extreme, huh...

[Zionist Nationalist]

I dont belive that they want peace

the recent riots in Jerusalem just prove that

I have no problem if they have their own state seperate from Israel but I dont think that they want that
they just want the whole cake ("Palestine from the river to the sea")

[skinster]

Why don't you believe they don't want peace? Don't all people? I mean, besides zionists who are perpetuating the conflict since they're the only side who have power...but yeS, don't all normal people want peace? How could you know if you've never given them that option?

The riots in EAST JERUSALEM which is Palestinian territory according to International Law, were caused by more zionist violence on Al-Aqsa. Good job saner-minds-prevailed amongst the zionists and they gave up their dumb idea of trying to control who could or couldn't access the mosque...

The whole cake? Palestinians under Arafat planned to agree to give up 78% of Palestine to Israel, taking just 22% for a Palestinian state, but even that was too much for Israel to allow.

And in reality, it's Israel that wants the whole area, since it continues to place Israeli settlers in Palestinian territory: 200,000 in East Jerusalem and 400,000 in the West Bank, since it is TO THIS DAY a state that hasn't defined its borders.

But Palestinians having 22% of their homeland - even though the UN initially offered them 44% despite them being the majority - is Palestinians wanting the whole cake.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Not all people want peace I realized that long ago even though deep in their heart they may want peace but their actions prove otherwise

The religion is poisoning the people minds. what happen in Jerusalem is because of religions fanaticism and those people have no intention of calming down since they are being brainwashed by Islamists(Hamas) who have no interest in peace

But Palestinians having 22% of their homeland - even though the UN initially offered them 44% despite them being the majority - is Palestinians wanting the whole cake.

They started a a war that they lost their problem

[skinster]

Not all people want peace, I agree; zionists, neocons & wahabis exhibit that daily.

The converts are usually the most extreme, huh...

[Hindsite]

Not all people want peace I realized that long ago even though deep in their heart they may want peace but their actions prove otherwise

The religion is poisoning the people minds. what happen in Jerusalem is because of religions fanaticism and those people have no intention of calming down since they are being brainwashed by Islamists(Hamas) who have no interest in peace

They started a a war that they lost their problem

I know this may sound crazy, but the liberal Christians in America think that when Jesus said when you are hit on one cheek, then turn the other cheek, that he meant, if someone hits you on the cheek or anywhere for that matter, don't fight back, but turn the other butt cheek to get the heck beat out of it too.

None of them ever speculate on why he told all his disciples to buy a sword.

[MistyTiger]

Ummm wrong kind of cheek, Hindsite.

The whole premise of turning the other cheek is weak and will make others think that you are a doormat that loves to be trampled over like being flattened by a steamroller.

Religious folks except for Buddhist monks and Hindus...all say they are fighting for truth and honor. What they really mean is that they are bloodthirsty and killing makes them feel stronger and more complete.

[Hindsite]

Not all people want peace, I agree; zionists, neocons & wahabis exhibit that daily.

The converts are usually the most extreme, huh...

This is the kind of liberal propaganda against Israel that I was referring to in another thread.

Ummm wrong kind of cheek, Hindsite. :?:

The whole premise of turning the other cheek is weak and will make others think that you are a doormat that loves to be trampled over like being flattened by a steamroller.

Religious folks except for Buddhist monks and Hindus...all say they are fighting for truth and honor. What they really mean is that they are bloodthirsty and killing makes them feel stronger and more complete.

I was just making fun of the misunderstanding of Jesus by using the Butt Cheek in a hopefully humorous way. I know I am not a good comedian, but I try sometimes. But I also was pointing out that swords would not be needed by the disciples, if Jesus always expected them to be passive when attacked. Perhaps Jesus just wanted them to have swords to cut open watermelons, but I doubt that.
Peter used his sword to slice off an ear of a guard of the high priest that came to arrest Jesus. But defending Jesus was obviously not the reason for all the swords.

HalleluYah
Praise the Lord

[skinster]

This is the kind of liberal propaganda against Israel that I was referring to in another thread.

It's propaganda where you have a show that includes two people speaking from each side of the story?

[Hindsite]

It's propaganda where you have a show that includes two people speaking from each side of the story?

The guy speaking against Israel was presenting propaganda. The guy speaking for Israel was presenting the truth facts.

[skinster]

Of course.

[Tailz]

Your post suggests there is an equal fight between zionists and Palestinians, that there isn't an oppressor and oppressed involved in this so-called conflict, that there isn't a hyper-militarized and nuclear-armed-to-the-teeth state, an international-law-violating expansionist state that starts wars with its neighbours every few years (which led Prof Finkelstein to refer to it as a "lunatic state"), versus an occupied group who have few or no rights, including those who live in concentration-camp-like conditions. Sure, their leadership might have sold them down the river, but does that mean we stop supporting those who are enslaved in 2017?

Just because I don't support one side or the other, does not mean I think ether side is equal. Obviously the sides are not equal.

I support a one-state solution too, but zionists won't allow for that since they're racist and don't think Palestinians should be afforded equal rights.

Both sides exhibit this phenomenon, as the Palestinians don't want Jews in their state ether. An interesting issue has been Netanyahu trying to bait and switch that issue by saying he did not mind Jewish settlements remaining in place and becoming citizens of the Palestinian state. The Palestinians have in turn refused this, and so Netanyahu points to it as evidence of the xenophobia of the Palestinians. Meanwhile favoring ideas of Population exchange to expel Palestinians from the state, while also taking measures to exclude Israeli Arabs from Israel as far as citizens rights with changes to the basic laws giving Jews exclusive rights to national self determination in the state.

Anyway, your post made me think of some famous quotes:

Silence is complicity. Neutrality is complicity. To speak out against injustice is a moral imperative.

Which is why I am not neutral. Just because I don't support ether side does not mean I am neutral. I am not neutral when it comes to doing right.

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

Indeed.

To be neutral, to be passive in a situation, is to collaborate with whatever is going on.

Not necessarily. Just nice literary prose to say "Your ether with us, or against us."

Silence becomes cowardice when occasion demands speaking out the whole truth and acting accordingly.

Yet the truth is blind.

Lying is done with words, and also with silence.

...sigh... I am not silent ether.

We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of Palestinians.

This is very true.

It would be my great sadness to see zionist do to Palestinians much of what Nazis did to Jews.

I so agree, yet in some instances, this has already come to pass.

[Zionist Nationalist]

We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of Palestinians.

You dont seem to care about others people struggle

you dont care about people that live under dictatorships. you actually support many of them
while pretending that you want democracy and freedom everywhere