Two cops killed in Jerusalen. Will the area ever have peace? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14829978
Zionist Nationalist wrote:but its still not a carpet bombing
you are using wrong terms to make it look like "woah Israel has flattered Gaza" when that didnt happened

It seems to me that the Zionists do no wrong in your estimation. The Zionists are war criminals and should be treated as such.


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#14829984
Israel responded to rocket attacks, mortar fire, sniper fire, infiltration of terrorists by attack tunnels, and attempted terrorist atrocities by incited Arabs.

Since the 2014 Gaza operation, it has been very peaceful on the Gaza-Israeli border.
Let's hope it stays that way. If not another lesson will surely be taught.
#14830002
Ned Lud wrote:What you really need, clearly, is for the Zionists to set up their death camps and kill everyone else on earth. Then, after a few civil wars, the True Volk will be alone and live supreme in peace


That is truly deep analysis.
Thank you for sharing your valued thoughts.

In the meantime, Israel is going to defend itself against anyone attacking them, as I outlined in my last post.
#14830277
anarchist23 wrote:It seems to me that the Zionists do no wrong in your estimation. The Zionists are war criminals and should be treated as such.

The Zionists are just people that want what was promised them and intend to get it one way or another.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

HalleluYah
Praise the Lord.
#14830784
skinster wrote:This is a weird thing to read since this conflict is a clear case of settler-colonialism where Europeans, Russians and Americans settled on top of a native people 7 decades ago and since, have continued to oppress the natives by killing them with impunity almost every day if not during bombing campaigns, allowing the people no rights, put restrictions on movement, demolish their homes, deny medical treatment, imprison and torture children without charges, and the list goes on, every day.

I agree with this point of view, always have. I have always written about how this conflict originated by the desire of a ethno-religious movements wish to establish a "pure" ethno-religious identity state superimposed over an area that already had a mixed population of different faiths and ethnic peoples. To do so, to force such a resolution, was going to result in conflict - and it has. Thus why I do not support Zionism. I can understand and support the essence or original basis for Zionism: the wish for a safe place for the Jewish people given the xenophobia against the Jews. But that desire for a safe place has been turned into a hammer of exploitation and oppression.

skinster wrote:It's not a matter of Palestinians being racist towards Jews - as though Palestinians haven't lived comfortably with Jews and Christians for centuries prior to zionists invading the land - but X GROUP resisting ANYONE who comes in and lives on top of them (unless you can remind me of a time in history where settler-colonialism hasn't resulted in resistance from the natives)

Oh come on, of course there is a very healthy under current of xenophobia against the Jews exhibited by Muslims, and the Palestinian Muslims are affected by this xenophobia just as much as Muslims in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. That xenophobia is nothing new, it has been there for centuries. What is new is that the conflict gives those who have those racial hatred tendances a new axe to grind, free expression of that xenophobia as resistance against Zionist occupation.
Now that said, not all resistance and all hatred against the Zionists is xenophobia, a good deal of it is based in the shitting situation of the occupation, the deeds leveled against them. But to pretend there is no xenophobia lurking within this conflict, is folly... for both sides as even the Zionists are xenophobic of Arabs (or just the Non-Jew, the Goy).

skinster wrote:And then that stuff about Israel's defence and security and "freedom" :lol: , as if it's not a nuclear state with a massive and powerful military occupying and oppressing a defenceless civilian population, as if it's not the only one out of the two who holds any real power.

You know far too well that my comments on the security of Israelis was not aimed at the state, but that of personal individuals... even the settlers. This whole comment devolves back to a discussion I have many times attempted to start: What is acceptable resistance in the Israeli Palestinian Conflict?

The murder of settlers in their homes? I disagree, even though I think those settlers are exploiting the occupation and profiteering on the suffering of the oppressed. Those settlers should be punished, stripped of their ill gotten gains... but murdered? I do not agree.

Terrorism, attacks aimed at civilians? I disagree for the same reasons I think Israeli troops harassing Hebron Palestinians in the street is wrong.

Attacks on infrastructure? Yes I can see that as acceptable.

Attacking the armed forces of the occupier?

My problem is that Israel oversteps self defence into terror. Thinking that harassment and terror is going to deter resistance activity. When w3hat is really happening is that the Israeli politicians and public just want to be seen as punishing the Palestinians. It is just revenge...
#14831050
Tailz wrote:Oh come on, of course there is a very healthy under current of xenophobia against the Jews exhibited by Muslims, and the Palestinian Muslims are affected by this xenophobia just as much as Muslims in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. That xenophobia is nothing new, it has been there for centuries. What is new is that the conflict gives those who have those racial hatred tendances a new axe to grind, free expression of that xenophobia as resistance against Zionist occupation.


This is bullshit. Palestinian Jews lived well with Palestinian Muslims and Christians for centuries before zionism happened and favoured only one of those religious groups, which of course would make the other two groups angry, regardless of if zionism favoured Palestinian Muslims or Palestinian Christians. You are talking out of your ass.

Now that said, not all resistance and all hatred against the Zionists is xenophobia, a good deal of it is based in the shitting situation of the occupation, the deeds leveled against them. But to pretend there is no xenophobia lurking within this conflict, is folly... for both sides as even the Zionists are xenophobic of Arabs (or just the Non-Jew, the Goy).


Racism against racism(zionism)? :lol:

You know far too well that my comments on the security of Israelis was not aimed at the state, but that of personal individuals... even the settlers. This whole comment devolves back to a discussion I have many times attempted to start: What is acceptable resistance in the Israeli Palestinian Conflict?


International Law is one thing you can by, which supports the resistance of those who are military occupied.

The murder of settlers in their homes? I disagree, even though I think those settlers are exploiting the occupation and profiteering on the suffering of the oppressed. Those settlers should be punished, stripped of their ill gotten gains... but murdered? I do not agree.


That's nice you think these settlers should be punished for illegally and violently living on top of natives the law dictates belongs to the natives, but when are they punished? Never. They can kill the natives with impunity and do regularly, but yeah, let's talk about how they should be punished as though that ever happens. :lol:

Terrorism, attacks aimed at civilians? I disagree for the same reasons I think Israeli troops harassing Hebron Palestinians in the street is wrong.


Soldiers shouldn't even be in Hebron, it's Palestinian territory. Palestinians have a right to resist them and hopefully kill all of them too.

My problem is that Israel oversteps self defence into terror.


:lol:
#14831174
skinster wrote:This is bullshit. Palestinian Jews lived well with Palestinian Muslims and Christians for centuries before zionism happened and favoured only one of those religious groups, which of course would make the other two groups angry, regardless of if zionism favoured Palestinian Muslims or Palestinian Christians. You are talking out of your ass.

I think the words you are looking for are: Lived in relative harmony. There has never been complete and utter peace, more periods of calm interspersed between sporadic moments of violence. I think the region did have its moments of Jewish and Muslim harmony to greater degrees than what Jews experienced in other Muslim majority lands. But to say it was all a bed of roses or that is was just none stop blood for blood, are both untrue.

Heck the Ottomans even founded a parade of a militant Islamic sect to occur on a yearly basis in order to show the Jews of Hebron who is boss. A parade complete with camels and swords, regularly ended up in bloodshed.

The one thing they all really agreed on was the security of their farms from Bedouin raiders, thus early Haganah formed as a break away from the Arab and Jewish groups that banded together to defend their farms.

Just a brief flick through the history of the region is a long story of Muslim on Jew violence and discrimination. That given, the history of discrimination does not justify the conditions of the occupation.

skinster wrote:Racism against racism(zionism)? :lol:

Well, uh...yes? Why is that so hard to understand? Zionism is for the creation of a Jewish state where only Jews are political empowered, while the Palestinians want the same thing for themselves. Both sides have xenophobic attitude towards each other.

skinster wrote:International Law is one thing you can by, which supports the resistance of those who are military occupied.

International law gives a set of rules that an occupation power is bound to follow (such as not settling citizens in the occupation area). But I don't remember any of those International laws (Geneva Conventions, etc) condoning resistance movements and certainly not the kind of "resistance" the Palestinians have been undertaking.

Mind you, I do agree that resistance against an unjust power is justifiable, but the means of that resistance are when I get into problems.

skinster wrote:That's nice you think these settlers should be punished for illegally and violently living on top of natives the law dictates belongs to the natives, but when are they punished? Never. They can kill the natives with impunity and do regularly, but yeah, let's talk about how they should be punished as though that ever happens. :lol:

I agree with this sentiment in principle, but not in execution. I will never agree with a murderous rampage against the settlers, as much as I think their activities are deplorable.

So I take it you support the murder of settlers?

skinster wrote:Soldiers shouldn't even be in Hebron, it's Palestinian territory. Palestinians have a right to resist them and hopefully kill all of them too.

The Soldiers are there because the settlers are there. I have written countless times I think the settlers should be evicted, because how they came to be there was unjust, their continued presence subjects the local non-Jewish population to unjust collective punishment, and the whole situation of street closures (with streets that only Jews can walk down) started because a Jewish doctor murdered Palestinian worshipers at the Cave of the Patriarchs.
#14831297
Zionism is apartheid and worse, by J Ofir

Sometimes confronting the naked truth is shocking – yet sobering.

Israeli historian Benny Morris was alas right, when he concluded that

“[T]ransfer was inevitable and inbuilt in Zionism – because it sought to transform a land which was ‘Arab’ into a Jewish state and a Jewish state could not have arisen without a major displacement of Arab population”.

I believe every Zionist knows this, even if they have not meticulously scrutinized the history of Zionism as Morris and many others had done. They know it because their logic tells them that they should not reverse the results of this ethnic cleansing (which occurred in various waves, mainly 1948, 1967, in between, thereafter and currently), because it would endanger the ‘Jewish and democratic’ state that is a ‘must’ for them.

Everything that results from this logic is an extension of it. How to deal with the dispossessed, how to close them in, how to deal with their ‘aggression and violence’.

It was the late General Rafael Eitan who said in 1983, when he was Chief of Staff, that

“When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.”

Eitan later joined politics and held various ministerial offices including Deputy-Prime-Minister under Benjamin Netanyahu, from 1996 to 1999.

So, it all becomes a question of how to deal with “drunken cockroaches” after the fact, after the fate of the dispossessed is sealed.

You cannot make this much prettier, although ‘liberal Zionists’ definitely try to. :D

It’s just a plain and awful logic. There’s a reason why many prominent South Africans as well as other intellectuals, including Jewish and Israeli ones, have marked Israeli policy as worse than South African Apartheid:

– South African law professor Prof. John Dugard, former special rapporteur for the United Nations on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories, had written in a report to the UN General Assembly in 2004 that the Israeli Apartheid regime is “worse than the one that existed in South Africa”. Out of office over a decade later, Dugard regarded the Israeli crimes as “infinitely worse than those committed by the apartheid regime of South Africa.”

– Baleka Mbete, chair of the African National Congress, said in 2012 that the Israeli regime is “far worse than Apartheid South Africa.”

– Israeli writer and journalist (Haaretz contributor) Yitzhak Laor wrote in 2009 that Israel’s Apartheid is not only “worse” but also “more ruthless”.

– Professor Noam Chomsky said in 2014 that it’s “much worse than Apartheid”.

– Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu said in 2014 that it “amounts to an Apartheid system”.

True, many of these appraisals limit the Apartheid system to Israel’s 1967 occupation, under the orthodoxy that if it weren’t for that, it would be alright. This is based on the idea that before and outside the 1967 occupation paradigm, Israel is after all a ‘democracy’. But this limited appraisal is a conceptual walling in of that occupation, much like Israel’s various ‘security barriers’.

Yet we need to see beyond this wall. Who is it that enacts this apartheid? Is it not the state that is behind the wall, controlling both sides of it? The apartheid also exists on the other side of the wall, in what is often called ‘Israel proper’:

Israel’s Palestinian citizens are not equal citizens. They are subject to some 50 discriminatory laws, not to mention occasional ethnic cleansing. Their dispossessed brethren are kept away because of Zionism, and it’s not a 1967 issue, it’s a 1948 issue. Even New York Times former Israel correspondent Jodi Rudoren admitted recently (though not in the pages of the Times, God forbid) that Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians looks “a lot like apartheid” – and not just in the 1967 occupied territories.

Israeli apologists often refer to the ‘Israeli Arabs’ as a minority that after all, enjoys a certain civil protection, in a region where such protections are not always present. But this argument is disingenuous on several fronts. First, they are a minority because the majority was ethnically cleansed. Secondly, they are not equal under the law, and they cannot be, because of Israel’s intrinsic racial character as a Jewish State. Thirdly, just because they are perhaps the most fortunate sector of the Palestinian people, doesn’t mean that they are its essential representation, or that Israel should get a pass on its more overtly genocidal policies (as in Gaza), only because it treats some of the Palestinians better. A jail torturer is not less of a torturer just because he treats some prisoners well.

As I wrote in my very first published article here, there’s not really that big a difference between Israel’s 1948 occupation and its 1967 occupation, and as I wrote more recently, that occupation is simply what we do. Israel has been doing nothing else but ‘occupying’ since the beginning, and this begs the notion, that ‘occupation’ is too limited a term to describe the paradigm of Israel’s Apartheid. The ‘occupation’ is not a limited or temporary 1967 issue. It is a Zionist issue. The occupation is Apartheid, because the occupation is what Israel does, and it’s a manifestly Zionist matter.

And all this is because, when looking back at Morris’s appraisal, the Israeli Apartheid stems from its settler-colonialist nature. And it’s much worse than the South African one, because it is a venture which sought and seeks to essentially eliminate the presence of the native Palestinians to irrelevance, rather than to exploit them as cheap labor.

As celebrated American author Ben Ehrenreich recently said,

“[T]he attempts to erase a people, to just erase them, to erase their history, I think follow a logic that can only be called genocidal”.

We are thus seeing not only Apartheid, but also genocide, unfold before us, for the past 7 decades. It’s so egregious, that many can hardly fathom it, and so they recoil to an apologetics that amounts to: “Don’t exaggerate.”

But the logic of it is frighteningly sober. We are talking about the two gravest crimes against humanity – Apartheid and Genocide. They are being committed in the name of Zionism.
http://mondoweiss.net/2017/08/zionism-apartheid-worse/
#14831400
I agree with the article... The point where we diverge @skinster, is that you make the jump to murder and terrorism in the name of resistance against the unjust actions of Zionism and the occupation as being a legitimate and justifiable act of defiance/resistance, where I do not.

I agree such unjust movements and deeds need to be resisted, and the perpetrators brought to justice. But I disagree that murder and terrorism is a justifiable means of that resistance.
#14831413
Tailz wrote:I agree with the article... The point where we diverge @skinster, is that you make the jump to murder and terrorism in the name of resistance against the unjust actions of Zionism and the occupation as being a legitimate and justifiable act of defiance/resistance, where I do not.


It's not me who made that jump, the law dictates occupied people can resist their occupiers, using force, mainly because it's actually considered defence against the crimes of who they're resisting, which in this case is Israel, the state that illegally militarily occupies Palestinian territory in the West Bank & East Jerusalem and the same + a blockade over Gaza; a concentration camp imprisoning close to 2 million people, that's been bombed 3 times in the last decade, the last time in 2014 for 51 days where over 500 children were killed, and by the way, there were Israeli airstrikes over it again tonight, since the Israelis wanted to test their new toys.

Unlike the Israelis, Palestinians don't have nukes and a massive military paid for by the world's superpower. They have no army, they're imprisoned, so they resist with shitty rockets every now and then, but this justified resistance to their illegal occupation, if I'm to understand you correctly, is bad-bad terrorism even though it's on their own territory. I guess it's not the good kind of terrorism the Israelis commit every single day, that's not even on their territory.

I agree such unjust movements and deeds need to be resisted, and the perpetrators brought to justice. But I disagree that murder and terrorism is a justifiable means of that resistance.


Tell me more about the perpetrators being brought to justice, when did that happen? Who were they? :lol:
#14831425
skinster wrote:It's not me who made that jump, the law dictates occupied people can resist their occupiers, using force, mainly because it's actually considered defence against the crimes of who they're resisting, which in this case is Israel, ...

Which law?

I would not be amazed if there are UN laws that give such legal grounds, but I don't remember them.

skinster wrote:... the state that illegally militarily occupies Palestinian territory in the West Bank & East Jerusalem and the same + a blockade over Gaza; a concentration camp imprisoning close to 2 million people, that's been bombed 3 times in the last decade, the last time in 2014 for 51 days where over 500 children were killed, and by the way, there were Israeli airstrikes over it again tonight, since the Israelis wanted to test their new toys.

I agree all of those are deplorable acts.

skinster wrote:Unlike the Israelis, Palestinians don't have nukes and a massive military paid for by the world's superpower. They have no army, they're imprisoned, so they resist with shitty rockets every now and then, but this justified resistance to their illegal occupation, if I'm to understand you correctly, is bad-bad terrorism even though it's on their own territory. I guess it's not the good kind of terrorism the Israelis commit every single day, that's not even on their territory.

Oh get off that hobby horse. The Palestinians could conduct a destructive resistance against the Israeli's without resorting to murdering Jewish kids for no other reason than they were Jewish kids.

Just because the Israeli's do horrible things, does not condone the Palestinians to do horrible things.

But hey... there is no moral/ethical high ground left to be had by ether side in this shit fight.

skinster wrote:Tell me more about the perpetrators being brought to justice, when did that happen? Who were they? :lol:

Oh I completely agree there are bus loads of Israeli's who should stand trial, who are getting of scott free with murder.
#14831430
Tailz wrote:Which law?

I would not be amazed if there are UN laws that give such legal grounds, but I don't remember them.


This UN resolution.

I agree all of those are deplorable acts.


Your opinion isn't important. Nobody was punished for these massacres on an imprisoned civilian population, in their own territory.

Oh get off that hobby horse.


:lol:


The Palestinians could conduct a destructive resistance against the Israeli's without resorting to murdering Jewish kids for no other reason than they were Jewish kids.


Ah, the hypotheticals and crying racism while apologizing for a racist ideology.

Just because the Israeli's do horrible things, does not condone the Palestinians to do horrible things.


Palestinians are punished - if they're lucky it's just prison and beatings/torture, otherwise a straight up execution - even though they resist in their own territory, where they're justified to fight for self-determination.

Israelis kill Palestinians with impunity, every day.

But hey... there is no moral/ethical high ground left to be had by ether side in this shit fight.


Yes there is. I'm explaining it to you. Perhaps I should direct you to your signature-quote.

Oh I completely agree there are bus loads of Israeli's who should stand trial, who are getting of scott free with murder.


You would say that, not that it matters since your agreement doesn't mean shit and Israelis continue to murder Palestinians with impunity pretty much every day.
Last edited by skinster on 09 Aug 2017 07:03, edited 1 time in total.
#14831437
Tailz wrote:But hey... there is no moral/ethical high ground left to be had by ether side in this shit fight.

The way I see it, this is about the Lord's promise to bring back His chosen people Israel, who He had scattered throughout the nations, to the land He promised to their forefathers. It is not about them having a moral/ethical high ground that makes them deserving of the land. We should pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

https://www.chosenpeople.com/site/promi ... ut-israel/

“From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones, Will bring My offerings.
In that day you will feel no shame Because of all your deeds By which you have rebelled against Me;
For then I will remove from your midst Your proud, exulting ones,
And you will never again be haughty On My holy mountain."

(Zephaniah 3:10-11 NASB)

"I will gather those who grieve about the appointed feasts—
They came from you, O Zion;
The reproach of exile is a burden on them.
Behold, I am going to deal at that time With all your oppressors, I will save the lame And gather the outcast, And I will turn their shame into praise and renown In all the earth. At that time I will bring you in, Even at the time when I gather you together; Indeed, I will give you renown and praise Among all the peoples of the earth, When I restore your fortunes before your eyes," Says the LORD.

(Zephaniah 3:18-20 NASB)

HalleluYah
Praise the Lord
#14831705
skinster wrote:This UN resolution.

The closest that document gets is the statement:

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;

But it does not outline resistance means, the UN has a document all about how to wage war and about the responsibilities of the occupier. So I find it odd that they are being obviously obscure with the statement. Given the UN's condemnation of terrorism conducted by Palestinian resistance movements.

But the document you listed, is a bunch of UN statements. It is not a set of UN laws ratified and signed up to by nations. Which is what I was expecting...

I don't think the UN would be so meticulous on occupations and then so nonchalant when it comes to the waging of resistance.

But meh... the UN is a body of selfish self interested nations, can't hamper themselves too much in telling resistance movements how to fight when you can just label it all terrorism by the oppressed.

As a side note, this one...

11. Reaffirms that the practice of using mercenaries against sovereign States and national liberation movements constitutes a criminal act and that the mercenaries themselves are criminals, and calls upon the Governments of all countries to enact legislation declaring the recruitment, financing and training of mercenaries in their territories and the transit of mercenaries through their territories to be punishable offences, and prohibiting their nationals from serving as mercenaries, and to report on such legislation to the Secretary-General;

...is curious given the use of mercenaries in Iraq, Sryia, Lebanon.


skinster wrote:Your opinion isn't important.

Nether of our opinions are important. We are just two random voices in the mass of voices on the internet who have no impact whatsoever on the conflict. They will be killing each other today, tomorrow, a year from now, regardless of our discussion and points of view.

skinster wrote:Nobody was punished for these massacres on an imprisoned civilian population, in their own territory.

I totally agree. I even posted an article some months ago about how David Ben-Gurion was concerned about forbidding the Death Penalty as he was concerned Jews would then be unconcerned about killing Arabs out of hand without such a harsh punishment waiting in the wings for such a deed. Yet look at the situation today, Israeli's are calling for the Death Penalty for a Palestinian who murdered three Israeli Settlers. Yet when three Jews kidnap, brutally beat and then burn alive a Palestinian, there are no calls for the Death Penalty. Goodness the assassin of the former fifth Prime Minister of Israel, Yitzhak Rabin was spared the death penalty.

skinster wrote:Ah, the hypotheticals and crying racism while apologizing for a racist ideology.

Apologizing for racist ideology? Curious, since I've been writing about the racism of both sides.

skinster wrote:Palestinians are punished - if they're lucky it's just prison and beatings/torture, otherwise a straight up execution - even though they resist in their own territory, where they're justified to fight for self-determination.

How many times do I have to write that I agree in principle, but we diverge on what is an ethical form of resistance.

skinster wrote:Israelis kill Palestinians with impunity, every day.

Yes, and they unjustly get away with it. I completely agree.

skinster wrote:Yes there is. I'm explaining it to you. Perhaps I should direct you to your signature-quote.

No there is not. Simply doing something horrible to someone else because they come from a group of people that includes someone who did something horrible to you or someone else from your group, does not make your actions moral or ethical. It is just revenge and blind rage.

skinster wrote:You would say that, not that it matters since your agreement doesn't mean shit and Israelis continue to murder Palestinians with impunity pretty much every day.

Our argument doesn't mean shit. Israelis and Palestinians will be killing each other for some time to come regardless of our words.
#14831740
It's weird interacting with someone who acts like the terrorism of one side, the side of the oppressed (a civilian population) is on par or possibly even worse than that which comes from the oppressive force, military state Israel, a state which has violated a record-breaking 77 UN resolutions.

I'm sorry but I'm not walking down that lane of delusion with you. Palestinian resistance, what little of it there is and however weak it is, is natural and justified and what any one of us would do, if foreigners came to our land and began building (literally) on top of us.

That is, we would resist.

Still, Palestinian resistance is weak af.

You want to talk about ethics? Israel, currently, has 93% of Palestinian territory, despite being offered 56% in the criminal Balfour Agreement (and later 78% by the Palestinians themselves). Israel continues to demolish Palestinian homes and builds Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian land. Israel continues to imprison and torture Palestinians and their children, without trials. Israel goes on bombing campaigns on Gaza. Last night Israel tested it's new toys, F-35 fighter jets on Gaza. Israel has killed 1500 Palestinian children in the last decade. Palestinians live under military occupation where they have no rights and 2 million of them live in a concentration camp. They're killed pretty much every day. Israel is doing all of this with complete impunity, because it serves Western interests.

What exactly do you expect the Palestinians to do? Ask their colonizers nicely if they could please refrain from such actions? :lol:

They're enslaved. Of course they will resist. And it's not terrorism, it's responding to a terrorism known as colonialism, settler-colonialism.

This so-called conflict was never about sharing land but Israel taking all of Palestine. There are no "both sides" but the oppressor and the oppressed. There is no peace process. There never was. It was all a facade so Israel could take all of Palestine, and of course expand elsewhere (Syrian, Lebanon).

You can act like a defeatist and blah-blah about "both sides" but the people support Palestinian liberation. :)

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You are welcome to check out the BDS thread for updates on the movement's success. Things will change sooner or later, if history does that thing of repeating itself. :)

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