Trump “strengthens the hand of hard-liners within Iran” - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14851619
TEHRAN, Iran — President Donald Trump’s refusal to certify the Iran nuclear deal has sparked a new war of words between the Islamic Republic and America, fueling growing mistrust and a sense of nationalism among Iranians.

The speech has also served to unite Iranians across the political spectrum — from Trump’s declining to call the Persian Gulf, the waterway through which a third of all oil traded by sea passes, by its name, to undercutting those trying to change Iran’s clerically overseen government from within.

That is also likely to strengthen the hand of hard-liners within Iran, who long have insisted that United States remains the same “Great Satan” denounced in the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

“Under the deal, it was supposed to be that we get concessions, not that we give more concessions,” the hard-line Kayhan newspaper raged.

Iranian officials and media outlets on Saturday uniformly condemned Trump’s comments that angrily accused Iran of violating the spirit of the 2015 accord and demanded Congress toughen the law governing U.S. participation. Trump said he was not ready to pull out of the deal but warned he would do so if it were not improved.

In a televised speech shortly after Trump made his announcement, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said his country would remain in the deal, but criticized Trump’s words, referring to them as “curses.”

Rouhani also said Iran would continue to build and test ballistic missiles, something allowed under the nuclear deal though Americans believe it violates the accord’s spirit.

“We have always been determined and today we are more determined,” Rouhani said. “We will double our efforts from now on.”

The Iranian president also offered a list of moments that showed the United States could not be trusted by the average Iranian, dating back to the 1953 CIA-backed coup that cemented U.S.-backed Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi’s power.

Like many others in Iran, Rouhani focused on the fact that Trump used the term “Arabian Gulf” to refer to the Persian Gulf. Some traded online video clips of past American presidents calling it the Persian Gulf, while one semi-official news agency published a photo gallery with the title “Persian Gulf forever.”

Posts with the hashtag PersianGulf and the Iranian flag circulated on social media.

The name of the body of water has become an emotive issue for Iranians who embrace their country’s long history as the Persian Empire, especially as the U.S.′ Gulf Arab allies and the American military now call it the “Arabian Gulf.” Rouhani even suggested during his speech that Trump needed to “study geography.”

“Everyone knew Trump’s friendship was for sale to the highest bidder. We now know that his geography is too,” Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif wrote on Twitter.

Zarif went on, with sarcasm, to mention Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, all hereditarily ruled Gulf nations, saying: “No wonder supporters of Trump’s inane Iran speech are those bastions of democracy in the Persian Gulf.”

Iran’s Education Minister Mohammad Bathai also suggested in a tweet that American teachers allocate more time toward teaching “history and geography” — another dig at Trump.

Recent surveys have shown an increasing majority of Iranians are skeptical that the U.S. will live up to its obligations in the nuclear deal. Meanwhile, most have yet to see the benefits of the deal itself as Iran’s economy still struggles to overcome rampant inflation, few jobs and bad loans to its banks.

“Iran has in no way violated the nuclear deal, and as far as we know it has always remained committed to its promises, but it has always been (the Americans) who have broken their promises and have had other options on the table,” Tehran resident Hamed Ghassemi said.

The U.S. has also levied new sanctions against Iran’s paramilitary Revolutionary Guard, whose forces fight the Islamic State group in Iraq, support embattled Syrian President Bashar Assad, have tense encounters with U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf and run the country’s ballistic missile program.

However, the U.S. has balked at adding the Guard’s name to a formal State Department list of foreign terrorist organizations. That could have proven problematic, especially with the Guard’s vast economic holdings across Iran.

Gen. Masoud Jazayeri , a Guard commander and spokesman for Iran’s joint armed forces staff, said late on Friday that the country’s military will continue boosting its power and influence.

“We tell the corrupt and evil government of the U.S. that we will continue promoting defensive power of the country, more determined and with more motive than before,” Jazayeri was quoted as saying by the Guard’s news website. “We do not spare a while for defending suppressed people in any point of the world.”


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/rundow ... ds-us-iran

I’ve long thought that if the US wanted to do something to the Iranian regime they would do what they did to Eastern Europe in the Cold War: provide Levi’s, Playboy, and Coke with a solid dose of American movies and art.

Fortunately, in some ways, it seems Trump and his supporters are so insecure and incompetent that they’re going to stop any progress in the region :lol:
#14851630
@The Immortal Goon

I’ve long thought that if the US wanted to do something to the Iranian regime they would do what they did to Eastern Europe in the Cold War: provide Levi’s, Playboy, and Coke with a solid dose of American movies and art.


We make our own progress and create our own art. Art of which is relevant to us and Iranian culture. Progress is happening whether America interferes or not. Reformist parties and ideologies are becoming increasingly more and more popular in Iran and local Iranian government and Iranians are becoming more open to socially liberal policies (economic ideology is varied in Iran). I don't see how America has any right to interfere in Iran.
#14851645
Oxymandias wrote:We make our own progress and create our own art. Art of which is relevant to us and Iranian culture. Progress is happening whether America interferes or not. Reformist parties and ideologies are becoming increasingly more and more popular in Iran and local Iranian government and Iranians are becoming more open to socially liberal policies (economic ideology is varied in Iran). I don't see how America has any right to interfere in Iran.


Oh, I completely agree! I am in no way a fan of US imperialism.

Hence “fortunately” Trump is such a bafoon he can’t accomplish even the most remedial attempts to do so.

I would like to see Iran more integrated into the rest of the world, and Trump is attempting to stop that. But even then it’s this short term thinking to address his crying children’s feels instead of anything that will aid the US, imperialist or not, in any way.
#14851647
The notion that a small country like Iran can threaten America in any way is complete lunacy. Why the average working class American should care about Iran is beyond comprehension. The media in the US and England will confuse and create hysteria among the population so that the badly educated, who comprise the majority of the population, will be instigated to listen to whatever the political class suggests. Even if this is completely against the interests of the population they will still believe it because the leaders and the press say they must.
#14851660
@The Immortal Goon

Define "integration with the world". If you mean "be a significant actor in global politics" then Iran has already achieved that. If you mean "globalize and neo-liberalize itself becoming the prey of faceless corporations and it's greedy corporate elite" then I would rather stay un-integrated than integrated. We already have our own share of corporate elites and cause their share of problems. We would rather not deal with thousands of them, especially if backed by countries 10x more powerful than us thank you very much.

@Political Interest

This is something that people don't seem to get about Iran. Iran cannot directly attack or destroy America without itself being destroyed in the process. All Iran can do is defend itself and that's basically what it's been doing for all this time, trying to expand it's ability to defend itself. Iran's only making nukes and all this other military equipment for the same reason America and Russia stockpiled on nukes during the Cold War. It's for the absolute worst case scenario of war with America. Iran's best ability is it's ability to defend itself.
#14851672
Oxymandias wrote:This is something that people don't seem to get about Iran. Iran cannot directly attack or destroy America without itself being destroyed in the process. All Iran can do is defend itself and that's basically what it's been doing for all this time, trying to expand it's ability to defend itself. Iran's only making nukes and all this other military equipment for the same reason America and Russia stockpiled on nukes during the Cold War. It's for the absolute worst case scenario of war with America. Iran's best ability is it's ability to defend itself.


I find it very interesting that the anti-Iran fanats cannot provide a coherent argument for why the West should blockade, hassle and obsess over Iran. All they say is, "Iran is a threat to our interests, Iran is a threat to Israel." And when you ask them about whose 'interests' those actually are and why the West should put Israel's strategic interests as it's own, they have no answer. Frienship with the Islamic world is actually in the real interest of the West because it will neutralise the threat of radicalisation in the Middle East and in Europe.
#14851677
Oxymandias wrote:Define "integration with the world". If you mean "be a significant actor in global politics" then Iran has already achieved that. If you mean "globalize and neo-liberalize itself becoming the prey of faceless corporations and it's greedy corporate elite" then I would rather stay un-integrated than integrated. We already have our own share of corporate elites and cause their share of problems. We would rather not deal with thousands of them, especially if backed by countries 10x more powerful than us thank you very much.


I mean I would like to visit Iran some day. Right now it would be very difficult.

And, as mentioned previously, I in no way want Iran to become a proxy for US imperialism nor do I believe in the United States way of doing these kinds of things. Part of the reason I posted this was to laugh at the United States failing. I’m a Marxist and an anti-imperialist.
#14851681
@The Immortal Goon

Yes, I agree. Iran should relax travel and migration to itself. But I do not think that Iran should economically and politically open itself for exploitation. I understand your political beliefs. I just wanted to use your comments as a backdrop for a larger issue among politics in Iran. Whether or not Iran should open itself or remain closed. I hold a sort of "centrist" position.
#14851713
from Trump’s declining to call the Persian Gulf, the waterway through which a third of all oil traded by sea passes, by its name, to undercutting those trying to change Iran’s clerically overseen government from within.


How is the US undercutting those trying to bring about change? I don’t believe that.

And the refusal to call it the Persian Gulf isn’t a refusal as such and more a ghastly display of ignorance.
#14851740
Oxymandias wrote:@The Immortal Goon

Yes, I agree. Iran should relax travel and migration to itself. But I do not think that Iran should economically and politically open itself for exploitation. I understand your political beliefs. I just wanted to use your comments as a backdrop for a larger issue among politics in Iran. Whether or not Iran should open itself or remain closed. I hold a sort of "centrist" position.


You need to make distinct trade and cultural imperialism.

The West is as bad as Islamic fundamentalists when it comes to steam rolling other cultures. Since you are Iranian, I don’t need to lecture you about it.

But it needs to be understood that the problem isn’t trade nor economics, but rather ideology. At present the West has a noxious liberal ideology that is tailored to subjugate all and sundry, including their own people.

Trade, however, should not be confused with ideology.


Political Interest wrote:I find it very interesting that the anti-Iran fanats cannot provide a coherent argument for why the West should blockade, hassle and obsess over Iran. All they say is, "Iran is a threat to our interests, Iran is a threat to Israel." And when you ask them about whose 'interests' those actually are and why the West should put Israel's strategic interests as it's own, they have no answer. Frienship with the Islamic world is actually in the real interest of the West because it will neutralise the threat of radicalisation in the Middle East and in Europe.


Is it? Why should we abandon Israel? I think we should hold out until an equitable soloution becomes possible. Have the English become so weak that they would compromise before even negotiating?

You want friendship with the Islsmic world? First prove you are worth their respect.
#14851788
The Immortal Goon wrote:https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/rundown/trumps-speech-sparks-new-war-words-us-iran

I’ve long thought that if the US wanted to do something to the Iranian regime they would do what they did to Eastern Europe in the Cold War: provide Levi’s, Playboy, and Coke with a solid dose of American movies and art.

Fortunately, in some ways, it seems Trump and his supporters are so insecure and incompetent that they’re going to stop any progress in the region :lol:

They alienate Europe too.


Closest allies? Not for Trump I guess.
#14851789
foxdemon wrote:Is it? Why should we abandon Israel? I think we should hold out until an equitable soloution becomes possible. Have the English become so weak that they would compromise before even negotiating?

You want friendship with the Islsmic world? First prove you are worth their respect.


Abandon Israel? It is not abandonment to conduct normal relations with all the countries of the region and not base our foreign policies on hysterical warnings from Netanyahu. Israel is also behaving aggressively by continuing to build settlements when it is not allowed to.

As for respect, well respect is mutual. Why would Middle Easterners respect the West when we do not respect them? And our disrespect is evident in the way conduct ourselves towards that region.

I am not English, I just live here.
#14852424
@foxdemon

I agree with everything you have said, Iran needs to have a pragmatic foreign policy one that favors it's interests over others similar to China's foreign policy. But I would like you to clarify, what do you mean by "cultural imperialism"? Based on a wikipedia article and quick google search I don't think I would like Iran to imperialize anything.
#14852539
Political Interest wrote:Abandon Israel? It is not abandonment to conduct normal relations with all the countries of the region and not base our foreign policies on hysterical warnings from Netanyahu. Israel is also behaving aggressively by continuing to build settlements when it is not allowed to.


Just one question, PI.
Are your feelings towards the Arabs and other Muslims not influenced by your earlier conversion to Islam?
I am not blaming you, we all have our own backgrounds that influences our thinking.
#14852547
@Ter

Your post does not contribute to the discussion or this topic, it is simply slander and insults. Nothing is of worth in your post. I won't report you, but I highly recommend you either delete it or report it. Empty insults are a place for places like Twitter and reddit. Not PoFo for god's sake. The entire reason why PoFo exists is to combat the low-quality posts you do find in other political forums!

If you have nothing of worth to say, don't say it!
#14852657
Oxymandias wrote:@Ter

Your post does not contribute to the discussion or this topic, it is simply slander and insults. Nothing is of worth in your post. I won't report you, but I highly recommend you either delete it or report it. Empty insults are a place for places like Twitter and reddit. Not PoFo for god's sake. The entire reason why PoFo exists is to combat the low-quality posts you do find in other political forums!

If you have nothing of worth to say, don't say it!


@Oxymandias
There is nothing insulting in my post.
Tell me, why did you feel attacked by it ?
Feel free to report my post.
#14852685
Political Interest wrote:I find it very interesting that the anti-Iran fanats cannot provide a coherent argument for why the West should blockade, hassle and obsess over Iran. All they say is, "Iran is a threat to our interests, Iran is a threat to Israel." And when you ask them about whose 'interests' those actually are and why the West should put Israel's strategic interests as it's own, they have no answer. Frienship with the Islamic world is actually in the real interest of the West because it will neutralise the threat of radicalisation in the Middle East and in Europe.


The Great Powers are still competing in the Middle-East. Iran is a rising middle-power. Therefore making Great Power competition difficult. Therefore they must suppress it unless it capitulates to a client-state status. It was one when under the Shah, now is run by theocratic nationalists.

When it comes to their trade policy, they won't unilaterally drop trade barriers and allow foreign monopolies and no-bid contracts, etc.

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