[Oxymandias]

@Ter

It asserts that PI is a Muslim and therefore, you are claiming that he is biased. This is obviously based on no evidence and does not contribute to the discussion at hand. This is about Trump and Iran, not whether or not PI is a Muslim for fuck's sake. There shouldn't even be any mention of Islam or religion at all in this topic since it's irrelevant. But for some goddamn reason you had to bring it in.

So the question isn't why I'm "attacked" by your post (I'm honestly not, I just feel some mild annoyance and an obligation as OP to make sure this topic, well stays on topic) but why you are so deeply hurt by Islam, so utterly psychologically damaged by a book and a pile of scrolls that you must bring it up, continuously, over and over and over again even if the discussion isn't even about it.

Are you a closet atheist Ter? A teenage ex-muslim still living in an Islamic family who are unaware of your atheism? Only a person that is dominated by this ideology and is continuously subjected by it would mention it at the level you do.

[Oxymandias]

@redcarpet

It's still kind of run by a monarchy. In fact, you might as well call Ali Khamenei a literal Shah or King considering he has no boundaries as to what he can do. He is literally called the supreme leader of Iran and, in my opinion, that's what a Shah or King is. The hierarchy of upper levels of government is very similar to Germany under the Kaiser.

[Ter]

It asserts that PI is a Muslim and therefore, you are claiming that he is biased.

That is correct

There shouldn't even be any mention of Islam or religion at all in this topic since it's irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant.
Islam is an integral part of every discussion about Iran.

So the question isn't why I'm "attacked" by your post (I'm honestly not, I just feel some mild annoyance and an obligation as OP to make sure this topic, well stays on topic) but why you are so deeply hurt by Islam, so utterly psychologically damaged by a book and a pile of scrolls that you must bring it up, continuously, over and over and over again even if the discussion isn't even about it.

You keep on repeating that Islam is just a book and some scrolls whilst in reality it is much more than that. In my opinion Islam is the cause of a worldwide intensifying clash of cultures.

By the way, PI's silence speaks volumes.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

However it is based on 0 evidence. Therefore it is slander and has no place in the discussion. It is irrelevant anyways.

It isn't in this context. What relevance does Trump's failure to create good relations with Iran have to do with Islam? Literally nothing. You can't even make the argument that Trump failed because of Islam because the article basically proves that this is not the case.

Did you just call Islam a culture? Boy you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about. I recommend that you at least read something about the different cultures of the Middle East but I doubt you will. It'll disillusion you and no ignorant person likes that.

Just because PI is silent doesn't mean jackshit. You either have evidence or get out of the kitchen. It's as simple as that. Baseless slander has no place in PoFo what's so ever.

[Ter]

@Ter

However it is based on 0 evidence. Therefore it is slander and has no place in the discussion. It is irrelevant anyways.

It isn't in this context. What relevance does Trump's failure to create good relations with Iran have to do with Islam? Literally nothing. You can't even make the argument that Trump failed because of Islam because the article basically proves that this is not the case.

Did you just call Islam a culture? Boy you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about. I recommend that you at least read something about the different cultures of the Middle East but I doubt you will. It'll disillusion you and no ignorant person likes that.

Just because PI is silent doesn't mean jackshit. You either have evidence or get out of the kitchen. It's as simple as that. Baseless slander has no place in PoFo what's so ever.

You sure write a lot of words to say nothing.
In fact, you are making my point for me. You, as a Muslim, will defend Islam and every Muslim. The solidarity among Muslims is total.

That was exactly my original point.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

A worthless post deserves a worthless comment. I am simply doing my part in promoting actual good discussion in this topic.

Not everyone who defends Muslims and doesn't believe that Islam is literal cancer is a Muslim. That's just paranoid of you. And if I was a Muslim, then most of my actual political beliefs would be incompatible with Islam.

I laughed at the "solidarity among Muslims is total" part. If Muslims were really truly one organism, why are Muslim nations not uniting under one whole? Why are they continuously fighting against each other? You remind of my 4th grade Quran teacher, everything that comes out of your mouth is conspiracy after conspiracy.

[anasawad]

@Ter
Clash of civilization is driven by Islam ? Not by western powers seeking to dominate the world you mean ?

And if I recall correctly, @Oxymandias is not a Muslim nor does have a Muslim origins.

The controversy with Iran is led by Geo-politics and economics, and almost all topics concerning Iran is mainly driven by Geo-politics. Not Islam.
Infact I would go as far as saying that Islam is almost entirely irrelevant to this whole set of issues and topics, as if it was relevant then the entire situation would be far far different from what it is now.

This is about the US government trying to control the region and Iran standing in its way, as admitted by the majority of senior US officials along the past 2 or so decades. Not my words, US officials words.
So no, in an objective sense, you're the one ignoring the reality and facts of the topic due to your bias in favor of the US government and Israel. Not the other way around.
If your buddies didn't want and constantly pursue total domination, then peace would have been achieved decades ago. Just remember you're the one foreign to the region not the other way around.

Infact, this whole conflict between Iran and the west literally started because the US and UK overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran in order to control Iranian oil. Mind you, just as those two did with dozens other countries around the world both Muslim and non-Muslim countries.

[Ter]

Clash of civilization is driven by Islam ? Not by western powers seeking to dominate the world you mean ?

In my opinion it is Islam ,yes.
Just look at which interests the Organisation of Islamic countries stands for, all 57 members. Just look at how adamant all Arab and Muslim-majority countries are united against Israel. It is all for pure religious reasons.
Islam is trying to become the dominant religion in the world, encouraging big families for instance. The demographic weapon.
(Hanye, the head of Hamas, has seventeen children)

Of course there are schisms in the Ummah, like there were schisms in Christianity between Catholics and Protestants. That does not change my stand about the solidarity among Muslims.

In Europe we see that the large Muslim enclaves demonstrate absolute solidarity. Why do the Netherlands police need 15 police vehicles and one helicopter to arrest one Moroccon drug dealer ? Why do Muslim bystanders physically attack Belgian police, sending some to hospital, when they attempt to arrest a violent offender ? Those are becoming no-go zones. All because of Islam.

That is why I am not surprised about the recent successes of anti-immigration, anti-Islam political parties in Europe (and Trump of course).

If your buddies didn't want and constantly pursue total domination, then peace would have been achieved decades ago.

I can only imagine what kind of peace that would have been.

[anasawad]

@Ter
Good job dodging all the points and "writing lots of words to say nothing".

Your post, as those of yours before it, continue to be unfounded and counter to facts and reality.

For peace, you don't need to put much imagination into it, there were 2 centuries of relative peace in the region before the British empire got in.
Almost all current conflicts in the region has direct involvement of the US and other western powers with pretty much all of them started or incited by western powers. Even the so called sectarian conflicts just happen to be between a group sponsored and founded by either the US or UK fighting against everyone else to take control over a country or more.

For Israel, its a colony that is ethnically cleansing the native population it conquered. Only immoral inhumane people support it, or in some cases, those who also conquered, colonized, and ethnically cleansed native populations to build there own on their land.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

There's a worldwide organization of Muslim countries that holds actual power and isn't a diplomatic knock-off? Well do you have any proof of this worldwide organization Ter? Of course you don't.

They are all angry at Israel but that doesn't mean they're all buddy buddy with each other. Every European country hated Islamic Spain, but that didn't mean they all merged into one country and unite against Islamic Spain. In the end it was Spain that destroyed Spain, not a union of European powers. Furthermore the Quran and Hadith actually supports the existence of Israel so it's not religious but political.

Calling them schisms is a bit of an understatement. If you are willing to go on an all-or-nothing war just because of that schism then it is no longer a schism. This isn't modern Protestantism and Catholicism where everyone's friends, this is 14th century Protestantism and Catholicism. You know, the type that had all those ridiculously brutal wars.

Many enclaves are alot more diverse than they seem. Just because the news doesn't go into detail doesn't mean diversity doesn't exist. Enclaves tend to be grouped with people from the same ethnicity, religious sect, and nationality. An attack from one poor Muslim majority ghetto is not the exact same as an attack from a completely different country.

It's because when you shove a bunch of discriminated, poor, and sad people into one place and let them reflect against each other in a large echo chamber where no one can hear them you get a bunch of very angry people who hate the fact that they are hated in the same country that they were born in and love. I already posted several accounts of second-generation Muslims feeling this way, the alienation they feel in their own home country and their lack of identity. You ignore this however.

Probably nothing would've changed. An empire spanning the world would be impossible to administrate.

[Ter]

@Oxymandias
@anasawad

I rest my case.
Let the reader decide.
Each of us looks at this through their own tinted glasses.

And all of this because I asked one question to PI (who still maintains radio silence)

Peace, salaam and shalom.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

You had no case to begin with. How the hell are readers supposed to identify with you if you don't even have a good argument? If you want to make off-handed comments about Islam, go to reddit. Maybe you'll even get gilded but here you don't do this, especially on a topic unrelated to it. The only time you pull something like this off, where you address the readers, is when you have addressed all the core points of the debater. You have no addressed any of our core points at all so how the fuck are the readers supposed to believe you at all?

At least my glasses are slightly less tinted than yours as you're willing to believe in literal conspiracy theories. Are you sure you aren't my 4th grade Quran teacher pretending to be an "athist" to test me or something?

PI retains radio silence because he probably isn't an idiot like us and actually goes on with his life not caring about whatever goes on a stupid internet forum. Maybe that's why PI doesn't respond, because he actually has a life.

Bedrood to you then. Salaam and shalom are only greetings said by Muslims. Unfortunately I am neither currently Muslim nor Muslim of birth. I was born a Zoroastrian as were my parents. Don't bother talking about Zoroastrianism because you probably have no idea what the fuck it is anyways. Like I said before, you know jackshit about the Middle East so I highly recommend you shut your trap before you saying something stupid.

[Ter]

@Oxymandias
Another post from Oxymandias, another word salad with a nonsense sauce.
I stand by everything I said and there is nothing you can do to stop me from expressing my opinions.
Now have a good day and don't use bad words in future, we are among civilised people here.

Peace, salaam and shalom.

[Rich]

Its not clear to me how much Trump really cares about containing Iran. There's an obvious contradiction between his pro Russian and his extreme anti Iran views. Does Trump really hate the Iranian regime or did he decide he wasn't going to be out-niggered (out-Iraned) like George Wallace, another Liberal who went native.

Trump does seem to genuinely care about trade and I think he believes in being tough and not worrying about "human rights". I'm not sure if he cares about health care either. But he does seem to have a genuine hatred for Obama and all his works. I'm just guessing here, but I think Trump wants to wreck Obamacare and the Obama-Iran nuclear deal. What happens after that is not his problem.

[Beren]

Its not clear to me how much Trump really cares about containing Iran. There's an obvious contradiction between his pro Russian and his extreme anti Iran views. Does Trump really hate the Iranian regime

Trump does Russia a favour actually, because he alienates Europe from the US with this, and Russia couldn't ask him for more than that. I don't think he really gives a damn about Iran, but he has to measure up to the expectations of his Saudi and Zionist masters. Maybe he wants to undo Obama's legacy too, but it's not a primary motive here.

[Political Interest]

I am not blaming you, we all have our own backgrounds that influences our thinking.

Ter, my support for the Arab side was from my earliest days. I remember being 13 or 14 years old and seeing on television Israeli soldiers beating Palestinian women, and finding it disgusting. I did not like seeing the walls and the aggression of these Israelis towards innocent people. It was tied into leftism and I was a leftist in those days.

Now days I am a rightist. I am pro-Palestinian because I see parallels between what happened there and what is happening to Europe now days. In fact the same people responsible for what happened to Palestine are the ones who are aiding and abetting the colonisation of Europe, and that is the Trans-Atlantic political class.

I do not view hostility towards a civilisation as large as that of Islam as sustainable or in Europe's interest. Mass immigration into Europe is a suicidal policy but it is not the fault of the Arab world. And I am not anti-Jewish. It is not so much to ask Israel to behave like a normal and civilised country. During the Gaza seige in 2014 I saw that Israel has absolutely no regard for civilian life and while someone like Assad is criticised non-stop the Israeli provocations are always ignored or even endorsed.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

I think you should look into a mirror. Stop projecting yourself onto me.

I'm not stopping you, I am simplying stating that it is irrelevant to the topic at hand and therefore, is against the rules of the forum. I can't do anything to you.

Like I said before, khudā ḥāfiẓ to you (btw I'm not actually still Zoroastrian, I'm ex-Zoroastrian. Just because I used the Avestan word for goodbye doesn't mean I'm Zoroastrian. It's just a tongue in cheek.)

[59 More]

But he does seem to have a genuine hatred for Obama and all his works. I'm just guessing here, but I think Trump wants to wreck Obamacare and the Obama-Iran nuclear deal. What happens after that is not his problem.

White have a tendency to feel cucked when a Black does it better than him.

[Ter]

@Political Interest
Fair enough, thank you.

[Rich]

White have a tendency to feel cucked when a Black does it better than him.

We're told the Republican Conservatives hated Obama because he was Black and Hilary because she was a woman. Its a bit weird because these are the people that rallied behind Sarah Palin, Herman Cain and Ben Carson.