For those who are sure Palestine is a country/ State, can you answer a couple questions? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14869278
If anyone is sure that Palestine is a State /country that has its roots recorded by history, I hope you can answer a few basic questions

1. When Palestine was founded, and by whom?

2. Where and what was their borders limits?

3. Where was its capital?

4. What was the name of Palestine main cities?

5. What was the bases of their economy, political and social system?

6. What were the forms of government that existed in Palestine through the centuries?

7. Who were Palestine leaders before Arafat? Where we can find historical reliable fonts to support this"?

8. What language did they speak?

9. Which religion prevailed? How they were organized?

10. What class and what was it called and what is the value of Palestinian money at any time in history. What is your value against the US dollar, the German mark, the British pound, the Japanese Yen or any other real-world currency?

11. Has any artifact of ancient Palestinians who inhabited Israel in the past been found?

12. Do you know of any library where you could find a work of Palestinian literature produced before 1967?

13. Since there is no country called Palestine, who or what made that country disappear? When did that happen?

14. If you believe that this Palestinian nation has been a proud nation in some period of history and is now in a humiliating state, could you tell us when that was and why you/they were proud of?

15. What Palestine produced to support the country? Can you name a Palestine bank before 1960?
#14869291
1. When Palestine was founded, and by whom?

After the Ottomans took the area from the Mamluks in the early 16th century, the area was set to be a state with its own government within the empire, with the exception of Gaza that was its own state.
Basically just like the 40 or so different states that formed the overall empire, each with their own governments and rulings and legal system as the Ottoman empire under Sulaiman the great was so.

2. Where and what was their borders limits?

Capital: Jerusalem.
North borders stopped at the 7 villages (Al-Qura Al sab') which where Lebanon began.
To the south, It stopped near Gaza as that was its own state.
North east before the Golan heights as the Druze had their state there.
East, the borders stopped at Salt in the north as the state of Badiat Al-sham began under Al-ghazawi rulers. And south of that stopped at the mountain line before Karak as the Idwan territories began there.

3. Where was its capital?

Jerusalem.

4. What was the name of Palestine main cities?

The same as they are now.

5. What was the bases of their economy, political and social system?

Islamic law within Ottoman federal structure.

6. What were the forms of government that existed in Palestine through the centuries?

Mainly Monarchies.

7. Who were Palestine leaders before Arafat? Where we can find historical reliable fonts to support this"?

Many dynasties, most known are the Farrukh, Turabay , Zaydani.
The first full independence period from the empire came under Zahir Al-Umar, whom built most of the country and is the first one to rule with full autonomy over Palestine since the Ottoman expansion.

8. What language did they speak?

Languages.
Arabic was the main language in the cities, however Hebrew, Assyrian, Kurdish, and other small languages were recognized and heard often.

9. Which religion prevailed? How they were organized?

Islam and Christianity. With Minority Judaism in the south.

10. What class and what was it called and what is the value of Palestinian money at any time in history.

Two currencies. One is the Dinar which was of lower value, one dinar was equal to the value of a coin of silver. And a Junaih (pound), which one Junaih was equal to one golden coin.
There was ofcourse the trade currency of the imperial Ottoman Lira which various states and provinces traded with each other in.

11. Has any artifact of ancient Palestinians who inhabited Israel in the past been found?

Yes, pretty much all of the artifacts in Palestine are from its people.
The land is called Palestine since over 2500 years now, not Israel.
The people who now are Palestinians are not Arabs, only a minority are Arabs as anyone who ever lived in Palestine, Lebanon or Syria would know. They even refer to them as Arabs because they're distinct from the native population.
The Palestinians adopted Arabic language and Islamic religion after they were Christians, and before that they adopted Christianity as they converted from Judaism.
Only a couple of tribes were actually kicked out by the Romans from the land, the rest remained still which is why you'd see the mention of Jewish tribes all over, only to be followed by a conversion to Christianity (i.e Judaism +1), then in the 7th-10th century, a gradual conversion to Islam.

All historic records shows this.
The Israelis are not actually native to the land, most are European Jews, not semitic jews or Hebrews.
Basically colonists.
You can easily tell by the fact that their skin is light. the natives to Palestine, as described and imaged historically, looked like Egyptians, whom are pretty much....you know...Brown.

12. Do you know of any library where you could find a work of Palestinian literature produced before 1967?

Tons. Even the most famous library in the middle east was in Palestine, the Library of Jerusalem which is centuries old.

13. Since there is no country called Palestine, who or what made that country disappear? When did that happen?

Colonial invasion after the British snakes backstabbed their allies in WW1 and began colonizing the land. Mainly by sending European Jews to it as they didn't like them in Europe. Then the Soviet union joined in to "solve" its Jewish problem either by simply killing them or letting them go to Palestine.
The natives are still around and don't plan to stop resisting colonialism anytime soon. So don't worry.

14. If you believe that this Palestinian nation has been a proud nation in some period of history and is now in a humiliating state, could you tell us when that was and why you/they were proud of?

Well, thats a dumb question. Which period ? not sure, you'd have to ask one of them.
Since Palestinians, just like Lebanese have several thousands of years of history on their land, there were many "favorite" periods for people and each pick their own.

15. What Palestine produced to support the country? Can you name a Palestine bank before 1960?

There were many banks in Palestine before the 1960s. Names ? Not sure, I would have to search for it.
How do we know there were banks ? Well, because they froze the bank accounts of zionists during the 1948 war. And, ofcourse, because banks existed pretty much in every single city in the world since atleast the 1500s.

In fact it even had an airport. The Jerusalem Airport which made flights all across the middle east, which was opened in 1920. Though the Israelis changed its name to Atarot Airport when the occupied it. Though its out of use currently as it wasn't maintained at all.
#14869338
@anasawd I meant real answers, not your fantasy tales LOL. Being part of the Ottoman empire doesn't make Palestine a country. Get real.

During the Ottoman Empire Syrians, Egyptians, Jews, Lebanese, Jordanians moved to the territory of Palestine. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and Palestine was nothing and still isn't a country. Palestinians aka Jordanians before they decided to rebel against Jews buying lands. Are people really claiming Eyerusalem is the capital of Palestine?


anasawad wrote:After the Ottomans took the area from the Mamluks in the early 16th century, the area was set to be a state with its own government within the empire, with the exception of Gaza that was its own state.
Basically just like the 40 or so different states that formed the overall empire, each with their own governments and rulings and legal system as the Ottoman empire under Sulaiman the great was so.


Capital: Jerusalem.
North borders stopped at the 7 villages (Al-Qura Al sab') which where Lebanon began.
To the south, It stopped near Gaza as that was its own state.
North east before the Golan heights as the Druze had their state there.
East, the borders stopped at Salt in the north as the state of Badiat Al-sham began under Al-ghazawi rulers. And south of that stopped at the mountain line before Karak as the Idwan territories began there.


Jerusalem.


The same as they are now.


Islamic law within Ottoman federal structure.


Mainly Monarchies.


Many dynasties, most known are the Farrukh, Turabay , Zaydani.
The first full independence period from the empire came under Zahir Al-Umar, whom built most of the country and is the first one to rule with full autonomy over Palestine since the Ottoman expansion.


Languages.
Arabic was the main language in the cities, however Hebrew, Assyrian, Kurdish, and other small languages were recognized and heard often.


Islam and Christianity. With Minority Judaism in the south.


Two currencies. One is the Dinar which was of lower value, one dinar was equal to the value of a coin of silver. And a Junaih (pound), which one Junaih was equal to one golden coin.
There was ofcourse the trade currency of the imperial Ottoman Lira which various states and provinces traded with each other in.


Yes, pretty much all of the artifacts in Palestine are from its people.
The land is called Palestine since over 2500 years now, not Israel.
The people who now are Palestinians are not Arabs, only a minority are Arabs as anyone who ever lived in Palestine, Lebanon or Syria would know. They even refer to them as Arabs because they're distinct from the native population.
The Palestinians adopted Arabic language and Islamic religion after they were Christians, and before that they adopted Christianity as they converted from Judaism.
Only a couple of tribes were actually kicked out by the Romans from the land, the rest remained still which is why you'd see the mention of Jewish tribes all over, only to be followed by a conversion to Christianity (i.e Judaism +1), then in the 7th-10th century, a gradual conversion to Islam.

All historic records shows this.
The Israelis are not actually native to the land, most are European Jews, not semitic jews or Hebrews.
Basically colonists.
You can easily tell by the fact that their skin is light. the natives to Palestine, as described and imaged historically, looked like Egyptians, whom are pretty much....you know...Brown.


Tons. Even the most famous library in the middle east was in Palestine, the Library of Jerusalem which is centuries old.


Colonial invasion after the British snakes backstabbed their allies in WW1 and began colonizing the land. Mainly by sending European Jews to it as they didn't like them in Europe. Then the Soviet union joined in to "solve" its Jewish problem either by simply killing them or letting them go to Palestine.
The natives are still around and don't plan to stop resisting colonialism anytime soon. So don't worry.


Well, thats a dumb question. Which period ? not sure, you'd have to ask one of them.
Since Palestinians, just like Lebanese have several thousands of years of history on their land, there were many "favorite" periods for people and each pick their own.


There were many banks in Palestine before the 1960s. Names ? Not sure, I would have to search for it.
How do we know there were banks ? Well, because they froze the bank accounts of zionists during the 1948 war. And, ofcourse, because banks existed pretty much in every single city in the world since atleast the 1500s.

In fact it even had an airport. The Jerusalem Airport which made flights all across the middle east, which was opened in 1920. Though the Israelis changed its name to Atarot Airport when the occupied it. Though its out of use currently as it wasn't maintained at all.
#14869352
All historic records shows this.
The Israelis are not actually native to the land, most are European Jews, not semitic jews or Hebrews.
Basically colonists.
You can easily tell by the fact that their skin is light. the natives to Palestine, as described and imaged historically, looked like Egyptians, whom are pretty much....you know...Brown


Um, no they didn't. They looked and were in fact Jewish. Their skin tone was darker(olive skin) and they had less European traits(like aforementioned whiter skin). But they spoke Hebrew(ancient form), followed the Hebrew religion(as it existed back then, Sacrificial Judaism rather than Rabbinical Judaism), used Jewish names and had Jewish ancestry.

They didn't look like Egyptians, the Egyptians enslaved them early in Jewish history(partly because they looked different). They had olive skin(imagine Gal Gadot if she had a permanent skin tan), Egyptians have always had light brown skin.

How do we know this? From the earliest days of Christianity and Christian art, Jesus has been portrayed with strong Jewish features like long dark-brown hair, a larger nose, olive or white skin(with strong preference for the former) and a tall stature. Paintings of Jesus have been consistent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depiction_of_Jesus

Does he look like a modern Jewish man just with a darker complexion coming primarily from being raised where he was raised, if cause he does.

Earliest depiction is very early. And he is discernibly unmistakeably Jewish looking.

You could say depictions of Jesus were based on Romanized or Hellenic Jews and somehow magically they had already branched way off from Judea Jews at the time, and these Jews were the main "European Jews" that modern Jews are descendant... And you'd probably be correct, But that does not change the fact that early Roman christian portrayals of the most famous first century Jew ever to have existed PORTRAY HIM AS A RECOGNISABLE JEW WITH RECOGNISABLE JEWISH TRAITS EVEN BY HOW TODAYS MODERN JEWS LOOK not two or three centuries later on.
#14869407
@colliric
First of all, the larger portion of Israelis came from Europe with most of them running away from the soviet union to Palestine. You cant possibly think that slavic jews and semitic jews both come from the same place ?

And no, on average the Israelis don't look like semites. You want to know how semites look like ? take a look at the majority of the semites alive today, i.e the Arabs. They're much darker. You know, when you see an Israeli with blonde hair and blue eyes and pinkish white skin !!. Yea, thats not how semites look like.

And European depictions came centuries latter. The earliest direct depictions of Hebrews were from the Egyptions, Assyrians, Babylonians and Persians. None of these descriptions put them as white people.They all agree that they're semites.

European Jews are converts not native semites.
The European dipictions paint them like Greeks, which they were not. Greeks had the olive skin not semites.
#14869409
Paintings of Jesus have been consistent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depiction_of_Jesus

[/quote]

Oh that is rich. None of these were portraits painted of the actual subject. They ar political depictions and as such say more about those behind the painting than the alleged person in it.

functional portraits are evidence of something? Really wake and smell the coffee.
#14869413
Portraits of Jesus is evidence of nothing! :lol:

Please.. tell me what colour he is...

4th century... so he gets whiter as time goes by, just like Michael Jackson!
Image
https://churchpop.com/2015/03/09/6-of-t ... -of-jesus/
#14870021
That's in fact my point exactly...

The ancient Hebrew Jews were olive skinned. Jesus was olive skinned(not black, but olive). Modern Jews are not olive skinned terribly much. Reason is simply, the thousand or more years spent in cooler places like England and Italy, and "breeding with the locals". Skin pigmentation is affected by climate, DNA and exposure to the sun. The Jewish skin color changed , doesn't change that fact that the modern Jews are still descendant from the ancient Jews in pretty much the same way I'm descendant from an ancient Irishman who gifted me my Irish surname, despite the fact I'm part Chinese and whatever.

It is possible that modern European Jews are actually descendant from Hellenic(Greek) Jews and Roman Jews(like Paul apparently was), the "European Jews" of Jesus time, but even so going back further they're all descendant from the ancient Hebrews anyway. The Jewish diaspora was big even in Roman times.

European Jews are converts not native semites.
The European dipictions paint them like Greeks, which they were not. Greeks had the olive skin not semites


Yes they were, they were Jews that were also part culturally Greeks. Early European depictions usually seem to depict Hellenic and Roman Jews rather than Jews from Judah specifically. They painted the Jews they probably saw in their daily lives given this was ancient times and one couldn't just go from Rome to Jerusalem just to paint a Jewish person. One had to make do with the local population of them, The Greek Hellenic Jews. That's possibly why Jesus was depicted the way he was.
#14870030
I honestly don't follow the depictions of Jesus argument. The native populations of a place almost always change the way Jesus looked to universalize him. Europeans like to imagine that Jesus was a Viking:

Image

In Latin America, Jesus looks Latin American:

Image

Image

In Africa:

Image

Image

In Asia:

Image

Why any of this translates to a conspiracy theory in which Palestine never existed is beyond me.

We all agree the Crusades happened, right? Certainly the Europeans were fighting someone there.
#14899409
@anasawad

However the administration of empires in Europe is fundamentally different from the empires of the Middle East or Islamic world. There are even two different foundations for their governments with the West's being the Hellenistic Empire while the Middle East's is based upon the Achaemenid Empire. The biggest distinction between both the Hellenistic Empire and the Achaemenid Empire forms of administration is the dichotomy between centralization or institutionalization and decentralization or autonomy which characterized the Hellenes and Achaemenids respectively. These foundations for administration was due to a difference in values and culture.

The Greeks valued having a common identity or solidarity with those around them and because of this were concerned with spreading their culture and keeping out those who weren't apart of it. They also were very concerned as to who was in power because most Greeks at the time easy to administrate cities or small regions where power projection is easy and the consequences of certain policies or governments occurred instantly. This lead to a form of very centralized administration with clear institutions of governance and we see these values in the modern nation-state.

The Persians however, given the geography of the Middle East, were able to conquer huge masses of land but with the side effect of being almost impossible to administrate especially given how long it took to transfer information from one area to the other. So the Persians organized their empires into satrapys, provinces with great deals of autonomy. At the head of each satrapy was the satrap or governor, a general which supervised military recruitment and ensured order, and a state secretary which kept official records. Both the general and state secretary were loyal to the Shahanshah and reported directly to him/her in order to give the Shahanshah crucial information. The Persians also developed a postal system, the first of it's kind, in order to relay information to satraps as well as the Shahanshah. The Persians also valued multi-culturalism and individual freedom from the birth of their Empire and because of this, had no issue giving people autonomy given that they follow certain proscriptive laws.

Often satraps were kings or rulers of the polities the Persians conquered who already had popularity among their peoples. This aspect of giving those who have popular support in their provinces political power will come into play in later forms of Middle Eastern administration.

These foundations are essentially in understanding the rest of the history of each region's respective forms of development.
#14899632
The Immortal Goon wrote:Why any of this translates to a conspiracy theory in which Palestine never existed is beyond me.

We all agree the Crusades happened, right? Certainly the Europeans were fighting someone there.

Yeah Saladin for one - an Iraqi Kurd, not really a proto Palestinian nationalist.
Godstud wrote:The Jewish identity is just as fake.

i wouldn't describe either as fake, but modern Jewish nationalism is a development of earlier Jewish ideologies.
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