[4cal]

What are we doing there? What is the mission? When will we leave?

PS: Obama is no longer president…references to him/his policies are not valid answers.

[skinster]

[Suntzu]

Does anyone know why we are in Afghanistan?

It only took the Russians nine years to figure it out!

[Albert]

God knows, why were Soviets in Afghanistan? Why Americans and Nato is there now? Prior, it survived colonization because of its strategic importance, during The Great Game between Russian Empire and the British. Afghanistan due to its geographical location was deemed important by the British, as if Russians got the hold of it, it would give them access to the Indian subcontinent and Indus valley. Whilst Russians did not want British to have possession of Afghanistan as it would lead British to have a foothold in central Asia. Hence, it was agreed at some point to keep Afghanistan free and neutral. I personally believe similarly same can be said about Persia.

But then again, Persia and Afghanistan, what is the difference? What is Pashtuns to a Farsi?

[Crantag]

God knows, why were Soviets in Afghanistan? Why Americans and Nato is there now? Prior, it survived colonization because of its strategic importance, during The Great Game between Russian Empire and the British. Afghanistan due to its geographical location was deemed important by the British, as if Russians got the hold of it, it would give them access to the Indian subcontinent and Indus valley. Whilst Russians did not want British to have possession of Afghanistan as it would lead British to have a foothold in central Asia. Hence, it was agreed at some point to keep Afghanistan free and neutral. I personally believe similarly same can be said about Persia.

But then again, Persia and Afghanistan, what is the difference? What is Pashtuns to a Farsi?

Well, Afghanistan has only once been successfully subdued, and that was by Alexander the Great.

The British tried and failed multiple times to subdue Afghanistan, including in 1842 when they sent in 20,000 troops, and only one soldier returned. This might have helped inform that policy you reference.

The Young British Soldier by Rudyard Kipling - 1890



WHEN the 'arf-made recruity goes out to the East
'E acts like a babe an' 'e drinks like a beast,
An' 'e wonders because 'e is frequent deceased
Ere 'e's fit for to serve as a soldier.
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

Now all you recruities what's drafted to-day,
You shut up your rag-box an' 'ark to my lay,
An' I'll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
A soldier what's fit for a soldier.
Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .

First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts -
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts -
An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .

When the cholera comes - as it will past a doubt -
Keep out of the wet and don't go on the shout,
For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
An' it crumples the young British soldier.
Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .

But the worst o' your foes is the sun over'ead:
You must wear your 'elmet for all that is said:
If 'e finds you uncovered 'e'll knock you down dead,
An' you'll die like a fool of a soldier.
Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .

If you're cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
Don't grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
Be handy and civil, and then you will find
That it's beer for the young British soldier.
Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .

Now, if you must marry, take care she is old -
A troop-sergeant's widow's the nicest I'm told,
For beauty won't help if your rations is cold,
Nor love ain't enough for a soldier.
'Nough, 'nough, 'nough for a soldier . . .

If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
To shoot when you catch 'em - you'll swing, on my oath! -
Make 'im take 'er and keep 'er: that's Hell for them both,
An' you're shut o' the curse of a soldier.
Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .

When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier . . .

When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are - you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .

When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

[Suntzu]

Ain't nothin' a backward Muslim Afghan can do that an American soldier can do better. We could make 'em bleed! But why? What is there in Afghanistan that is worth one American life. Destroy the power grid, leave and let them starve in the dark.

[Zionist Nationalist]

because its a strategic important location and also if the US government leave Afghan government will fall and the situation there will be worse than in Somalia

[Albert]

Well, Afghanistan has only once been successfully subdued, and that was by Alexander the Great.

The British tried and failed multiple times to subdue Afghanistan, including in 1842 when they sent in 20,000 troops, and only one soldier returned. This might have helped inform that policy you reference.

Well Russians were just up around the corner in that region.

[Crantag]

Well Russians were just up around the corner in that region.

Russia has also never subdued Afghanistan.

Even Alexander the Great is debated as to if he subdued Afghanistan, but I originally was taught by a very good history professor that he did (however, Alexander's empire split up after he died, yet descendants of his hordes are still in Afghanistan).

[Suntzu]

because its a strategic important location and also if the US government leave Afghan government will fall and the situation there will be worse than in Somalia

How can Afghan be strategic to the U.S., it is halfway around the world? Afghanistan doesn't really have a government, half the country is controlled by rebels. Let them control the other half, too. What's wrong with the situation in Somalia? That's the way it has always been going back 200 years.

[Crantag]

How can Afghan be strategic to the U.S., it is halfway around the world? Afghanistan doesn't really have a government, half the country is controlled by rebels. Let them control the other half, too. What's wrong with the situation in Somalia? That's the way it has always been going back 200 years.

As I understand it, the failed plan was to build an oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea region. Afghanistan also has a lot of mineral resources, including rare earth minerals, if I'm not mistaken.

[Suntzu]

We have oil and rare earths in the U.S.

[Crantag]

We have oil and rare earths in the U.S.

Nice 5th grade understanding of how the world works there, pal.

[Zionist Nationalist]

How can Afghan be strategic to the U.S., it is halfway around the world? Afghanistan doesn't really have a government, half the country is controlled by rebels. Let them control the other half, too. What's wrong with the situation in Somalia? That's the way it has always been going back 200 years.

Its located near central Asia Iran,Pakistan,China

the US military presence there is intimidating US rivals in those regions

[Rich]

We're there to try and make Muslims look less bad. We're there to pretend that there's a problem with a few bad guys that have nothing to do with Islam. And of course its easy to justify this because Muslims ask us to intervene in their countries and deal with the "bad guys". In 1990 Saddam was the "bad guy" who had nothing to do with Islam. Remember even Hafez Assad stood shoulder to shoulder with George H Bush in desert storm. Does anyone doubt that his son would not stand sholder to shoulder with again if he thought it would serve his regime.

[Suntzu]

The U.S. is occupying Afghanistan. You can't win an occupation, you either stay forever or leave.

[ThirdTerm]

More American troops will be headed to Afghanistan in the new year, the top US general in Kabul told reporters. Increased numbers of US advisers will be backed by combat troops as well.
There are over 1,000 advisers out with Afghan forces at any given time, General John W. Nicholson Jr. told reporters Sunday. “Next year, however, this will increase dramatically.”
The new plan for turning the corner in a war the US has fought since 2001 involves deploying more advisers in battle alongside Afghan security forces, Nicholson said. The brigade-size teams “will be backed up by US combat enablers, not only for the protection of our own force, but for support of Afghans as well,” he said.
https://www.rt.com/usa/414291-more-troo ... n-general/

It's a smart strategy and 1,000 US troops in Afghanistan are advisors who are training Afghan forces. President Kennedy also sent 1,000 US military advisors to South Vietnam to help train the South Vietnamese Army. I think only Afghan soldiers are fighting on the frontlines, risking their lives, and there were only 6 US combat deaths in Afghanistan in 2017.

The situation did not improve. In September of 1963, President Kennedy declared in an interview, "In the final analysis, it is their war. They are the ones who have to win it or lose it. We can help them, we can give them equipment, we can send our men out there as advisers, but they have to win it, the people of Vietnam, against the Communists... But I don't agree with those who say we should withdraw. That would be a great mistake... [The United States] made this effort to defend Europe. Now Europe is quite secure. We also have to participate—we may not like it—in the defense of Asia."
https://www.jfklibrary.org/JFK/JFK-in-H ... etnam.aspx

[MadMonk]

The U.S. is occupying Afghanistan. You can't win an occupation, you either stay forever or leave.

You can win an occupation, West-Germany and Japan were succesful occupations based on the positive results for US geo-political interests. These countries are to a certain extent "occupied" even today but most often with the support of each countries respective governments and enough public support to drown out the noises calling for complete independence.

If your argument is that the US can no longer run an Empire, that contradictions keep piling up with a domestic political scene that seems to be revolving around cheering for what TV celebrity that least deserves any public office, and a foreign policy scene that is schizophrenic at the best of times, then I completely agree that the US occupation in Afghanistan has been horribly planed out, executed and with no end in sight.

Withdrawal and a complete sober analysis on why this happened in the first place might not be the worst idea.

[Albert]

Russia has also never subdued Afghanistan.

Even Alexander the Great is debated as to if he subdued Afghanistan, but I originally was taught by a very good history professor that he did (however, Alexander's empire split up after he died, yet descendants of his hordes are still in Afghanistan).

If you are speaking about the Soviet-Afghan War, the answer is Operation Cyclone.

[Suntzu]

Nice 5th grade understanding of how the world works there, pal.

Been all over it, figure I understand it about as well as anyone. As for as the oil business goes, I own an oil well (gas actually), do you?