Iran : War or Regime Change ? - Page 12 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15011988
If I were a strategist for al-Qaida or ISIS, or similar rat scum, I'd find it in my interests to sabotage tankers and pipelines in the Gulf and elsewhere, and see to it that it got blamed on Iran. Eventually, such a devil in human form would reason that his Shia enemies would be terminally weakened by a war with the US and/or Israel, while weakening every other regime in the region.

If a guy like me can figure out this as a distinct possibility, why can't our brilliant Elites? Or maybe that scenario is something they'd want to play out for their own reasons...
#15011996
Somebody is trying really hard to set up Iran. Blowing up tankers in more or less proiranian states and attacking Japanese freighters when Abe is in Iran to negotiate the Iranian-Us-Eu crysis. Realistically this is a scare trick for Japan to stop or else. Highly likely Israel or Us or Sa are involved and should be punished. Probably SA.
#15012002
JohnRawls wrote:Somebody is trying really hard to set up Iran. Blowing up tankers in more or less proiranian states and attacking Japanese freighters when Abe is in Iran to negotiate the Iranian-Us-Eu crysis. Realistically this is a scare trick for Japan to stop or else. Highly likely Israel or Us or Sa are involved and should be punished. Probably SA.


I don't see this as being the US or Israel, I see this as elements within Saudi Arabia and the other Salafist/Wahhabi Oil Sheikdoms, the Al-Qaida/ISIS types, trying to provoke a regional if not universal conflagration. Look, the ships were manned mainly by Russians and Fillipinos, and the Iranians took the crews to safety after these events hapened, so I don't see the Iranians as doing this, nor would the US or Israel due to being rational actors that dislike taking risks.

So it's the Jihadis.
#15012039
Zionist Nationalist wrote:what? :eh:


Or let me put it in this way: Do you agree that annihilation of power-holders in Iran would help to establish peace in the region? If so, how large should the scale of this annihilation be?
#15012055
Patrickov wrote:Or let me put it in this way: Do you agree that annihilation of power-holders in Iran would help to establish peace in the region? If so, how large should the scale of this annihilation be?


I dont want to annihilate Iran and killing their leaders wont change anything the system need a change within
after the Iranian regime will be removed the region will be alot more peaceful and stable
#15013096
4 Times the US Threatened to Stage an Attack and Blame it on Iran


The US has threatened to stage an attack and blame it on Iran over and over in the last few years. Don’t let a war based on false pretenses happen again. Please share this video.

TRANSCRIPT

1) PATRICK CLAWSON ON “CRISIS INITIATION”

CLAWSON: I frankly think that crisis initiation is really tough and it’s very hard for me to see how the United States president can get us to war with Iran. Which leads me to conclude that if in fact compromise is not coming, that the traditional way of America gets to war is what would be best for US interests.

Some people might think that Mr. Roosevelt wanted to get us into World War II. As David mentioned, you may recall we had to wait for Pearl Harbor. Some people might think Mr. Wilson wanted to get us into World War I. You may recall he had to wait for the Lusitania episode. Some people might think that Mr. Johnson wanted to send troops to Vietnam. You may recall they had to wait for the Gulf of Tonkin episode. We didn’t go to war with Spain until the USS Maine exploded. And may I point out that Mr. Lincoln did not feel he could call out the federal army until Fort Sumter was attacked, which is why he ordered the commander at Fort Sumter to do exactly that thing would the South Carolinians had said would cause an attack.

So if in fact the Iranians aren’t going to compromise, it would be best if somebody else started the war.

[…]

I would just like to suggest that one can combine other means of pressure with
sanctions. I mentioned that explosion on August 17th. We could step up the pressure. I mean, look people, Iranian submarines periodically go down. Someday one of them might not come up. Who would know why? We can do a variety of things if we wish to increase the pressure. I’m not advocating that, but I’m just suggesting that this is not an either-or proposition of, you know, it’s just sanctions has to succeed or other things. We are in the game of using covert means against the Iranians. We could get nastier at that.

SOURCE: Patrick Clawson Responds to Questions, Full Video – 9/21/2012

2) ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI WARNS OF “A TERRORIST ACT BLAMED ON IRAN”

BRZEZINSKI: A plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the bench marks followed by accusations of the Iranian responsibility for the failure, then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the United States blamed on Iran culminating in a “defensive” US military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

SOURCE: Zbigniew Brzezinski The Senate Foreign Relations Committee

3) GARY HART WARNS IRAN ABOUT “ANOTHER GULF OF TONKIN”

WE ARE CHANGE: Yes, you recently wrote a letter to the President of Iran in which you urge them to study the gulf of tonkin incident which we now know is a staged event used to justify war in Vietnam andyou also raise the question “Does America provoke provocations?” Sir, was this not an . . I have the letter right here sir if you want to read it I have it on me right here Oh sir I mean that’s mainstream media has been published in many publications do you deny writing that letter sir you say I can read it to you right now okay you said on presuming that you are not actually ignorant enough to desire war with the United States you might you might be well advised to read the history of the sinking of the USS Maine in Havana Harbor in 1998 and the history of the gulf of gulf of tonkin

HART: I’m sorry that was a blog or nothing to most I did not literally write a letter it was a mock letter read failed in doublespeak that the United States could stage an event to go to war with Iran no no then well what I was come in cheek saying was that we have an administration in Washington that is dying for a reason to bomb Iran and so in a mock blog letter to the Iranian government not the president of the Iranian government I just simply said if unless you people want to be bombed you better be careful about cross border incursions and I think I explicitly said keep the Republican Guard and revolutionary whatever it’s called away from the Iraqi border I was trying to communicate to the American people what our own government was trying to plan and that was to find a reason for bombing Iran and I was simply saying in effect to the American people through this mock letter be very careful about this administration creating a USS Maine incident or a Gulf of Tonkin incident that would justify popping around that’s all

SOURCE: Gary Hart WARNING – WeAreChange

4) SEYMOUR HERSH: CHENEY’S PLAN TO STAGE AN INCIDENT

FAIZ SHAKIR: There’s a bit at the end of this latest article that you wrote that I found actually most interesting. And the article hasn’t got that much attention but I want to get your take on this. And this relates to a stray or an incident that happened a couple months ago. Many of you remember. It was in the Strait of Hormuz. There was an incident where an American carrier almost blew a couple of Iranian speedboats out of the water and perhaps would have started the next war against Iran or potentially a World War III. And it was averted, thankfully, at the last second. We later learned that there was really nothing to be terribly concerned about—the incident was overblown—and that there was a vice admiral in charge of the fleet in the Strait of Hormuz who said basically there was no concern there. That it was overblown.

HERSH: But yeah, the second part basically. He was concerned but they were never a threat.

SHAKIR: They were never a threat. And you talked about—this his name is Kevin cosgrove and in article you write:

Nonetheless, Cosgriff’s demeanor angered Cheney, according to the former senior intelligence official. But a lesson was learned in the incident: The public had supported the idea of retaliation, and was even asking why the US didn’t do more. The former official said that, a few weeks later, a meeting took place in the Vice-President’s office. “The subject was how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,” he said.

What you’re writing there is that Cheney—there was a meeting in the White House where Cheney presided over looking to cook up the next war. A false war based on false intelligence.

HERSH: My oldest son is a lawyer and when I sent him this story before it was published—basically in a final form, just a day—and he he wrote back and he said “You really buried the lead in this one,” about casus belli. Um, how many press are here?

Anyway, there was a meeting. Among the items among the items considered and rejected—which is why The New Yorker did not publish it, on grounds that it wasn’t accepted—one of the items was why not . . . There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger war. The one that interested me the most was: Why don’t we build in our shipyard—build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats, put navy seals on them with a lot of arms and the next time what about those goes through the Straits of Hormuz start a shoot up. Might cost some lives. And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. But that’s the kind of that’s the level of stuff we were talking about: provocation.

But that was rejected so I could understand the argument of not writing something that was rejected. Maybe. I, basically—my attitude always towards editors is they’re mice training to be rats. But the point is jejune, if you know what that means. Silly, maybe, but potentially very lethal. Because one of the things they learned in the incident was the American public—if you get the right incident, the American public will support, you know, bang bang kiss kiss. You know, we’re into it.

SOURCE Dick Cheney’s false flag attack idea to start the war with Iran




MIKE POMPEO: But in terms of how you think about problem sets, I – when I was a cadet, what’s the first – what’s the cadet motto at West Point? You will not lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those who do. I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole. (Laughter.) It’s – it was like – we had entire training courses. (Applause.)

SOURCE: Secretary Pompeo Participates in Q&A Discussion at Texas A&M University

POMPEO: Good afternoon. It is the assessment of the United States Government that the Islamic Republic of Iran is responsible for the attacks that occurred in the Gulf of Oman today. This assessment is based on intelligence, the weapons used, the level of expertise needed to execute the operation, recent similar Iranian attacks on shipping, and the fact that no proxy group operating in the area has the resources and proficiency to act with such a high degree of sophistication.

SOURCE: Secretary Pompeo Delivers Remarks to the Media

https://www.corbettreport.com/iranfalseflag/
#15013114
Until such time as the Iranian government apologises to Salmon Rushdie, condemns the Ayatollah Khomeini, pays substantial compensation to Salmon Rushdie and allows all his books to be sold freely in Iran, I have no problem with war with Iran.
#15013338
“NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE,” he said on Twitter in a direct message to Iranian President Hassan Rouhani.




This hardline strategy worked on North Korea. Iran would be begging for mercy, if the Trump administration can keep the maximum pressure campaign on Iran going. Iran has declared it “will not wage war against any nation” after the US announced that 1,000 troops are to be sent to the Middle East. No matter what Trump says, it will not be an all-out war between the two nations because Iran doesn't want war.
#15013340
Rich wrote:Until such time as the Iranian government apologises to Salmon Rushdie, condemns the Ayatollah Khomeini, pays substantial compensation to Salmon Rushdie and allows all his books to be sold freely in Iran, I have no problem with war with Iran.


Regardless of his mention of the famous (or infamous) ''Satanic Verses'' of the Koran, Salman Rushdie at least as a writer is a diseased and deranged insect whose turgid prose is almost unreadable. Have you read his trash? I challenge you to disagree with my assessment of the ass-paper he passes as literary output...

Once again, the only reason you're harping on this is your intellectual war against all Monotheistic religion whatsoever. So, a society that has enshrined it's Monotheistic belief as the cornerstone of public life, informing and infusing every aspect of that life, draws more than your usual ire in it's direction in my opinion.
#15046945
Foreign Affairs wrote:Iran Is Doing Just Fine

Tehran Has Survived U.S. Sanctions. Its Nuclear Program and Regional Activities Will, Too.

By Henry Rome November 5, 2019

A year ago this week, the administration of U.S. President Donald Trump kicked off what it called a “maximum pressure” campaign against Iran. The United States had withdrawn from the Iran nuclear deal in May 2018. In November, it reimposed a raft of economic sanctions squeezing Iranian oil exports and curtailing the country’s access to the international financial system. Some analysts predicted that Iran’s friends in Europe and Asia would defy the United States to lend Iran economic help. Others reckoned that the sanctions would send Iran’s economy into a “death spiral,” leaving Tehran the choice to either surrender or collapse. Neither of these predictions came to pass.

Rather, Iran now enters its second year under maximum pressure strikingly confident in its economic stability and regional position. Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and other hard-liners are therefore likely to continue on their current course: Iran will go on tormenting the oil market while bolstering its non-oil economy—and it will continue expanding its nuclear program while refusing to talk with Washington.

Meanwhile, Bibi's fallen and no sign of any retaliation against Iran for the attack on Saudi Arabia.

Tired of winning in the Middle East too, huh? :lol:
#15057402
[quote][b][size=150]Iran Quds Force head Qassem Soleimani killed in Baghdad strike[/size][/b]

Powerful leader of Iranian expeditionary force killed in bombing at airport in Iraqi capital, head of Iran-backed militia also assassinated, US reportedly confirms involvement

[img]https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2018/08/Untitled-7-640x400.jpg[/img]

Qassem Soleimani, the powerful head of Iran’s Quds Force, was killed in an airstrike at Baghdad International Airport, Iraqi TV and three Iraqi officials officials said Friday.

The officials said the strike also killed Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the deputy commander of Iran-backed militias known as the Popular Mobilization Forces.

The PMF, also known as Hashed, confirmed that the two were killed, blaming the strike on the US.

US officials told Reuters that it had carried out a strike in Baghdad on two figures linked to Iran, but did not provide details. The attack came hours after Defense Secretary Mark Esper said the US was ready to step up activities to push Iran-backed forces out of Iraq, including pre-emptive strikes.

Soleimani has for years been seen as the architect of much of Iran’s malign activities in the Middle East, including attempts to place a foothold in Syria and rocket attacks on Israel, making him one of Israel and the US’s most sought-after targets.

His killing was announced hours after missiles struck at least two cars at Baghdad’s International Airport, killing at least seven people, according to Iraqi officials.

There was no immediate confirmation of his death from Iranian officials.

If confirmed, Soleimani’s death would likely mark a major escalation in a simmering conflict between the US and Iran that recently boiled over in Iraq with the storming of the US embassy by pro-Iranian militiamen following a US strike on a Tehran-backed militia.

There was no immediate comment on the assassination from Israeli officials, who in the past have expressed worries of being targeted by Iran in any conflict with the US.

Lebanon’s Al-Meyadeen news outlet, seen as close to the Hezbollah terror group, an Iranian proxy group, also reported on Soleimani’s death.

Despite being deputy head of the PMF, Muhandis was widely viewed as the group’s leader. He and Soleimani shared a close relationship.

Soleimani for years stayed in the shadows while directing the Quds force, an elite special forces brigade within Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps responsible for Iran’s extra-territorial military operations.

In recent years he stepped into the limelight, appearing alongside Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and other Shiite leaders.

In October, he gave his first major interview to a publication run out of Khamanei’s office in which he claimed that Israel had tried to assassinate him and Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah in 2006.

Days later, Mossad chief Yossi Cohen indicated that Israel was not yet actively seeking to assassinate Soleimani, after Iran said it had uncovered an “Israeli-Arab” plot to kill him.

“He [spoil][/spoil]knows very well that his assassination is not impossible. His actions are identified and felt everywhere… there’s no doubt the infrastructure he built presents a serious challenge for Israel,” Cohen said.[/quote]
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-quds ... -iraqi-tv/

A significant esacalation.
The Americans were upset with the attack on their Embassy.
#15061935
There is some news that I want to put up for discussion.

Parisa Hafezi wrote:Iran's Rouhani calls for unity, accuses Trump of exploiting rift

DUBAI (Reuters) - Iranians should not allow U.S. President Donald Trump’s “maximum pressure” approach to harm national unity ahead of parliamentary elections, President Hassan Rouhani said in a speech, lashing out at hardliners over mass disqualification of candidates.

Iran’s clerical rulers face challenges in keeping the economy afloat under increasingly tough U.S. sanctions imposed by Washington after it withdrew in 2018 from Tehran’s nuclear deal with world powers. Vital oil exports have been slashed.

“We should not let Trump succeed in creating gaps between the establishment and people ... We should remain united ... Don’t turn your back on (Feb. 21) elections. Let’s have a high turn out,” said Rouhani in a speech broadcast live on his official website.

“We should not let Trump and those terrorists in the White House isolate Iran.”

Iran’s hardline Guardians Council, which vets all election candidates, has disqualified about 9,000 of the 14,000 who registered to run in the elections. Moderates say in most cities they have no candidates to enter the race.

“This parliamentary election is a very important election ... I have written letters to relevant authorities to resolve the issue of disqualifications,” said Rouhani.

“You (hardliners) claim that you will win the election. That is fine, but just let the election be a competitive one.”

Since Iran’s 1979 Islamic revolution, its rulers have swept aside challenges to their grip on power. But the gap between them and the people has widened since last year, when hundreds were killed in anti-government protests. Iran has yet to announce the death toll and rejects figures published by human rights organizations.

Tehran also risks a legitimacy crisis amid mounting public fury and international criticism over the belated admission of blame by Iran’s elite Revolutionary Guards for shooting down a Ukrainian passenger plane by mistake.

Angry Iranians took to streets to protest against the delayed admission by the Guards.

The distrust between the rulers and the ruled, combined with economic hardship, bodes ill for the parliamentary vote in February, when Iran’s rulers typically seek a high turnout to show their legitimacy, even if the outcome will not change any major policy.

“I am calling on our nation to vote,” Rouhani said. “Even if you have criticism over issues and problems, please cast your vote.”

Reuters


Poor Rouhani, having to act as a figure of democracy while the regime he tries to moderate does something that's anything but.

In Hong Kong, the government disqualified just one candidate. The result is that his replacement trashed the pro-China incumbent. Not to mention the results in other constituencies.

I am not totally against screening candidates, but this procedure is too easily abused that it should not be exercised outside most extraordinary circumstances.
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