[Decky]

Western interests in the Middle East are actually not Western interests at all. The pursuit of these so called interests is detrimental to Western countries and the staiblity of Western Eurasia.

I couldn't have said it better myself, our governments are not acting in the interests of their people, they are acting for an outside force, a shadowy cabal who run things from behind the scenes for their own financial advantage. You know who I'm talking about. The rootless cosmopolitans, loyal only to capital not to the nation in which they live.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Decky is, of course, talking about the international cabal of Prods.

[Political Interest]

I do understand some of the anxiety about European peoples losing their identity and whatnot. It's a pretty primal fear to be outdone and replaced by another ethnic group and such. But it's unrealistic. There's hundreds of millions of European people in Europe. I don't think African and Middle Eastern immigrants will replace those hundreds of millions of Europeans any time soon.

Anxiety suggests that it is egotistical and based on some sort of imagined concern. I often hear about "white anxiety" which is very interesting because the narrative (of course, because everyone thinks in narratives now days) is always that the anxieties are held by the privileged white males and baseless.

However far from being baseless there is genuine reason to be concerned. Furthermore it is not some fantastic hysteria of white supremacists but a reality that needs to be addressed in some form or another. Because it ultimately has existential implications for the future of Europe.

This white genocide stuff promoted by certain people on this forum and elsewhere (I'm not talking about you PI) is the stuff of losers denying they fantasize about interracial cuckoldry and projecting their semi-flaccid denials onto their "opinions" about global affairs.

And this is definitely not a genocide. To call what is happening in Europe now a genocide is an insult to genuine victims of genocide.

It also obscures the reality of the situation and detracts from serious discussion.

What mass immigration will produce will not be genocide but rather assimilation of established identities into new ones or divided nations that suffer ethnic conflict and instability, perhaps even civil war.

As for interracial fantasies, that is not my concern. I have no objections to interracial marriages. Anyone can assimilate into an ethnicity, therefore it is not a racial issue for me. The pace at which settlement to Europe is happening prevents such assimilation but results in the preservation of settler identities in the lands they have arrived in.

Needless to say, if someone has absolutely no discomfort at the thought of his people either becoming assimilated or a minority in lands they have inhabited for thousands of years they are basically insane.

Furthermore, society is constantly in the process of change. Western culture differed radically one century ago, and even 50 years ago and less it looked much different and many values were far from what they are today. In 50 years it will look different as well. Obsessing about a romanticized ideal of what the past "was" isn't very healthy for one's mind. Interracial cuckolding projections/fantasies are the result (just take a quick look at some of the threads being posted in in the last month). Don't go down that path, PI.

Western societies were static in terms of migration. There was nothing on the scale that exists today except in colonial settings.

It is rather disturbing that you attribute not wanting to vanish into something else some type of cuckolding projection.

Please show me an example of a country where people would happily be assimilated or become a minority in the land where they were established for thousands of years. I can assure you that nationalities in most of the world would not.

Anyhow this is drifting off topic. The fact is that Western countries have no business interfering in the Middle East. Narratives about 'threats to Western interests' and manufactured Islamophobia are distractions from the real and genuine interests of Westerners, namely to live in peace with all nations and peoples.

[skinster]

Anxiety suggests that it is egotistical and based on some sort of imagined concern. I often hear about "white anxiety" which is very interesting because the narrative (of course, because everyone thinks in narratives now days) is always that the anxieties are held by the privileged white males and baseless.

However far from being baseless there is genuine reason to be concerned. Furthermore it is not some fantastic hysteria of white supremacists but a reality that needs to be addressed in some form or another. Because it ultimately has existential implications for the future of Europe.

Again, where are you living where you're experiencing being overtaken by the savage hordes?

So far you mainly sound hysterical, PI. Which is odd, as you're not often like this.

[Decky]

He is the child of two immigrants himself. It's almost an Albert situation.

[skinster]

Oh god.

I actually sensed something like that...the Alberts, Igors and PIs of this board remind me of that thing they say about converts to religion being the most extreme, or something. Why is that? Is it overcompensating for not being of pure...whatever?

[Decky]

Oh god.

I actually sensed something like that...the Alberts, Igors and PIs of this board remind me of that thing they say about converts to religion being the most extreme, or something. Why is that? Is it overcompensating for not being of pure...whatever?

I wonder when Albert is going back to Russia, PI going back to Lithuania and Igor back to Serbia?

[skinster]

I forgot to add ZN to that above list.

I guess they can't go back because they are too busy blaming others for why their lives might suck. I think I should be like these folks now that I consider it, since I was brought to England when I was a wee 6-months-old. FUUUUUCK, I should've been like that Maajid Nawaz twat after I became an atheist, I could be a millionaire by now

[Political Interest]

Again, where are you living where you're experiencing being overtaken by the savage hordes?

So far you mainly sound hysterical, PI. Which is odd, as you're not often like this.

Skinster, it is rather disappointing that you think I sound hysterical. I denied the existence of white genocide. My concerns are very different to the far right and it is important that you do not confuse them if you want to understand what I am saying.

I think it is frustrating that we can agree on some 65% of topics but will disagree on the rest. We are both anti-imperialist and have socialist economic tendencies. But our ideas about society, especially Western society are very different.

Your language about 'savage hordes' is deliberately provocative. No it is not a question of 'foreign hordes' because these are not hordes and there is nothing wrong with them. It is a question of reality of what will happen in the future. I think you are being slightly unreasonable, Skinster.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Anxiety suggests that it is egotistical and based on some sort of imagined concern. I often hear about "white anxiety" which is very interesting because the narrative (of course, because everyone thinks in narratives now days) is always that the anxieties are held by the privileged white males and baseless.

However far from being baseless there is genuine reason to be concerned. Furthermore it is not some fantastic hysteria of white supremacists but a reality that needs to be addressed in some form or another. Because it ultimately has existential implications for the future of Europe.

It is an imagined concern and it is hysterical to think Europeans are going to be replaced any time soon by immigrants from Africa and Asia. Cultural identity is constantly in a state of change, as is the universe itself. Everything is in a state of change. Cultural identity for pretty much every nation and ethnic group was different 50 years ago. It will be different in 50 years to come. Europe is no different. However, Europe isn't going to become an Islamic state or an African colony.

And this is definitely not a genocide. To call what is happening in Europe now a genocide is an insult to genuine victims of genocide.

It also obscures the reality of the situation and detracts from serious discussion.

What mass immigration will produce will not be genocide but rather assimilation of established identities into new ones or divided nations that suffer ethnic conflict and instability, perhaps even civil war.

As for interracial fantasies, that is not my concern. I have no objections to interracial marriages. Anyone can assimilate into an ethnicity, therefore it is not a racial issue for me. The pace at which settlement to Europe is happening prevents such assimilation but results in the preservation of settler identities in the lands they have arrived in.

Needless to say, if someone has absolutely no discomfort at the thought of his people either becoming assimilated or a minority in lands they have inhabited for thousands of years they are basically insane.

I'm a communist, so I'm not blind to how mass immigration is bad for the working class of any country. However, again, it is hysterical to think you are going to become assimilated to a cultural takeover by a minority of immigrants, as if they are a monolithic horde out to get you and your country. Europeans are not going to be replaced by immigrants any time soon, and any long term changes to European identity are just that: long term. As with any mass immigration, there is ethnic tension, and ultimately assimilation as they adapt, but also the host culture changes as well and adds some of the immigrants' culture to their own. There is always a fusion of ideas and cultural flavors.

As Decky points out, you're an immigrant yourself. Should you be deported back to whatever ancestral Tatar lands you come from because you might be part of an ethnic conspiracy (as everyone knows, all foreigners are linked to a hive mind in order to assimilate new cultures) to overwhelm the country you live in?

@Decky PI will never approach Albert's level of hilarity on the whole immigrant anxiety/hypocrisy thing.

[Decky]

:D

I forgot to add ZN to that above list.

I guess they can't go back because they are too busy blaming others for why their lives might suck. I think I should be like these folks now that I consider it, since I was brought to England when I was a wee 6-months-old. FUUUUUCK, I should've been like that Maajid Nawaz twat after I became an atheist, I could be a millionaire by now

I don't think anyone who truly believes in the dear leader and eternal father of the British people, el comaandente Jeremy Corbyn can really be an atheist.

[Political Interest]

:D

I forgot to add ZN to that above list.

I guess they can't go back because they are too busy blaming others for why their lives might suck. I think I should be like these folks now that I consider it, since I was brought to England when I was a wee 6-months-old. FUUUUUCK, I should've been like that Maajid Nawaz twat after I became an atheist, I could be a millionaire by now

Where did I blame immigrants? Perhaps we could have a conversation that is not on established political narratives for once.

It is an imagined concern and it is hysterical to think Europeans are going to be replaced any time soon by immigrants from Africa and Asia. Cultural identity is constantly in a state of change, as is the universe itself. Everything is in a state of change. Cultural identity for pretty much every nation and ethnic group was different 50 years ago. It will be different in 50 years to come. Europe is no different. However, Europe isn't going to become an Islamic state or an African colony.

I am not sure where Europe experienced any mass population shift on this scale before 50 years ago.

I'm a communist, so I'm not blind to how mass immigration is bad for the working class of any country. However, again, it is hysterical to think you are going to become assimilated to a cultural takeover by a minority of immigrants, as if they are a monolithic horde out to get you and your country. Europeans are not going to be replaced by immigrants any time soon, and any long term changes to European identity are just that: long term. As with any mass immigration, there is ethnic tension, and ultimately assimilation as they adapt, but also the host culture changes as well and adds some of the immigrants' culture to their own. There is always a fusion of ideas and cultural flavors.

Who said that I think they are hordes out to get me and my country? The assumption that this is the case prevents any serious discussion of this subject.

Indonesia, Nigeria, Malaysia and Pakistan are all countries where ethno-religious tension has not been resolved even decades after these became independent states.

As Decky points out, you're an immigrant yourself. Should you be deported back to whatever ancestral Tatar lands you come from because you might be part of an ethnic conspiracy (as everyone knows, all foreigners are linked to a hive mind in order to assimilate new cultures) to overwhelm the country you live in?

Where did I advocate deportation? And it is not some type of ethnic conspiracy. It is frustrating that you think misgivings about immigration can only be articulated on the level of conspiracy theory.

Immigrants will take advantage of whatever opportunities are available to them. What a person does in their individual life is separate to the level of government policy. This is why it is stupid to blame immigrants for the complications that arise from immigration.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

I am not sure where Europe experienced any mass population shift on this scale before 50 years ago.

Are you familiar with European history, PI?

Who said that I think they are hordes out to get me and my country? The assumption that this is the case prevents any serious discussion of this subject.

Indonesia, Nigeria, Malaysia and Pakistan are all countries where ethno-religious tension has not been resolved even decades after these became independent states.



Where did I advocate deportation? And it is not some type of ethnic conspiracy. It is frustrating that you think misgivings about immigration can only be articulated on the level of conspiracy theory.

Immigrants will take advantage of whatever opportunities are available to them. What a person does in their individual life is separate to the level of government policy. This is why it is stupid to blame immigrants for the complications that arise from immigration.

I didn't say you literally said deportation. In fact, I specifically told you I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned the interracial fantasy bullshit. I assumed you were aware I wasn't saying I think you said certain things. A number of people here on PoFo obsess about Africans and Arabs overrunning their countries, having sex with white women, and other sexual fantasies involving interracial cuckoldry. I specifically said I wasn't saying you, too, and I thought it was obvious I wasn't being serious about deportation; I was making a point about how you're an immigrant yourself.

[skinster]

Skinster, it is rather disappointing that you think I sound hysterical. I denied the existence of white genocide. My concerns are very different to the far right and it is important that you do not confuse them if you want to understand what I am saying.

I think it is frustrating that we can agree on some 65% of topics but will disagree on the rest. We are both anti-imperialist and have socialist economic tendencies. But our ideas about society, especially Western society are very different.

Your language about 'savage hordes' is deliberately provocative. No it is not a question of 'foreign hordes' because these are not hordes and there is nothing wrong with them. It is a question of reality of what will happen in the future. I think you are being slightly unreasonable, Skinster.

But you do sound hysterical, or at a minimum are spouting vague shit that I'm trying to figure out. I asked where you lived twice where you feel under threat and you refuse to respond to that question but post vague shit instead where you act like you or European culture (whatever that is) is under threat. What exactly are your "concerns" borne out of?

I read this post of yours twice now and in the last paragraph it seems you're afraid of something that might happen in the future. That's totally not hysterical at all, PI. But yup, it's me being unreasonable.

[Political Interest]

Are you familiar with European history, PI?

I am a product of European history, Bulaba.

Where were there massive population shifts in European history? And I know there are definitely examples but nearly all produced conflict of some type. It was never easy.

I didn't say you literally said deportation. In fact, I specifically told you I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned the interracial fantasy bullshit. I assumed you were aware I wasn't saying I think you said certain things. A number of people here on PoFo obsess about Africans and Arabs overrunning their countries, having sex with white women, and other sexual fantasies involving interracial cuckoldry. I specifically said I wasn't saying you, too, and I thought it was obvious I wasn't being serious about deportation; I was making a point about how you're an immigrant yourself.

Thank you for making such a distinction, Bulaba.

Yes the cuckoldry is nothing but perversion and racism (real racism).

As I said, it is not an issue for me who is marrying who. The real issue for me is the instability that mass immigration will create and the possiblity of the loss of traditional European ethnoses.

But you do sound hysterical, or at a minimum are spouting vague shit that I'm trying to figure out. I asked where you lived twice where you feel under threat and you refuse to respond to that question but post vague shit instead where you act like you or European culture (whatever that is) is under threat. What exactly are your "concerns" borne out of?

I read this post of yours twice now and in the last paragraph it seems you're afraid of something that might happen in the future. That's totally not hysterical at all, PI. But yup, it's me being unreasonable.

In order not to be vague I will state it in very unambiguous terms. I am worried about:

1) Assmiliation of European identity into another identity. Mass immigration could produce a situation where this happens.

2) A Europe where in each country there is no one clear identity thereby leading to inter-communal tension and conflict, possibly even civil war.

[skinster]

Thanks for being less vague, PI, but also displaying once more that your fears are based on hypotheticals rather than reality. The rightwingers/racists you criticize do the same.

[Political Interest]

Thanks for being less vague, PI, but also displaying once more that your fears are based on hypotheticals rather than reality. The rightwingers/racists you criticize do the same.

It is not an easy subject because as you say it is based on a hypothetical scenario. The lines between genuine and legitimate concern and actual racism are very thin on this subject as well.

Who knows what to do?

But to get back on topic I think we can both agree that attacking Iran is exactly what we should not do!

[skinster]

It is not an easy subject because as you say it is based on a hypothetical scenario.

It's not easy for you because you have to explain how your fears are based on your imagination.

The lines between genuine and legitimate concern and actual racism are very thin on this subject as well.

Legitimate concerns would have to based on reality, I think.

Who knows what to do?

Maybe deal with actual reality and not how you imagine the future may go? You might be hit by a bus tomorrow so why bother worrying about things that haven't happened?

But to get back on topic I think we can both agree that attacking Iran is exactly what we should not do!

Indeed.

[Ter]

France blames Iran for foiled Paris bomb plot
French officials say Iran's ministry of intelligence was behind a plot to bomb a rally of Iranian opposition groups in Paris in June.

In a statement, the French government said it had frozen the assets of two senior Iranian officials.

Iran insists the alleged plot is a fabrication, but has called for talks.

In a possibly linked development on Tuesday, police in the French city of Dunkirk raided a Shia Muslim centre that has close ties to Iran.

They made several arrests and froze the assets of the group.
What is the background?

On 30 June, Iranian opposition supporters gathered in Paris for a meeting of the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI). Guests included US politicians Newt Gingrich, a former House speaker, and Rudy Giuliani, President Donald Trump's lawyer.

The NCRI is considered to be the political arm of dissident group Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK), which Iran has designated as a terrorist organisation.

It later emerged that two Belgian nationals of Iranian origin - a husband and wife known as Amir A and Nasimeh N - had been arrested by Belgian police in possession of half a kilogram (1.1lb) of explosives and a detonator.

Voices from Iran: 'We have the right to protest'
An unpredictable challenge for Iran

In a series of co-ordinated raids another man, identified only as Merhad A, was arrested in Paris and is accused of being an accomplice.

An Iranian diplomat based in Austria, Assadollah Assadi, was also arrested by police in Germany.

German prosecutors say he is an intelligence agent who met the husband and wife team in Luxembourg where he ordered the attack and handed them the explosives.

Austria stripped him of his diplomatic status after his arrest and Mr Assadi now faces extradition from Germany to Belgium for prosecution.

What does France say?

On Tuesday, the French government said it believed that the Iranian intelligence ministry was behind the plot.

It announced it was freezing the assets of two suspected Iranian intelligence operatives - believed to be Mr Assadi and Saeid Hashemi Moghadam, who a French diplomatic source said was head of operations at the intelligence ministry.

In a rare joint statement, the French interior, foreign and economy ministers said: "This extremely serious act envisaged on our territory could not go without a response.

"In taking this decision, France underlines its determination to fight against terrorism in all its forms, particularly on its own territory."
What has Iran said?

Tehran again quickly denied any involvement, saying the alleged plot was "designed by those who want to damage Iran's long-established relations with France and Europe".

"We deny the accusations and forcefully condemn the Iranian diplomat's arrest, and call for his immediate release," a foreign ministry statement said.

But speaking later, ministry spokesman Bahram Ghasemi called for talks with France to clear up any "misunderstanding".

"If there is a misunderstanding... about a thing that does not exist, be it a conspiracy by others or a mistake, we can sit down and talk about it," he told AFP news agency.
What happened in Dunkirk?

Several people were arrested after police raided the headquarters of the Zahra Centre France and the homes of its leaders on Tuesday.

Officials quoted by AFP said the assets of the centre were frozen. It is headed by Yahia Gouasmi, a French-Algerian who is known for his links to Iran and for his anti-Zionist views.

Regional authorities said the operation was part of the "prevention of terrorism" procedures, but it was unclear if the arrests were linked to the Paris bomb plot.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45722523

Interesting, they wanted to bomb the Iranian opposition in France.
Iran should remember that their Ayatholla Khomeine found refuge in France during the regime of the Shah Pavlevi.

Once again, the Iranians were caught with their terrorist practices.
This time there is no denying it.

[Rich]

Interesting, they wanted to bomb the Iranian opposition in France.
Iran should remember that their Ayatholla Khomeine found refuge in France during the regime of the Shah Pavlevi.

All the Western European countries have a major Sunni Muslim problem. In all the of them Sunni Muslims are increasing at an exponential rate. Twelvers (shia) are 90% Muslims, 90% of horrendous is still pretty much horrendous. However can you give me an example of one western country that has a serious Twelver problem?

Yes the Iranian regime is nasty but this obsession with Iran is a creation of Jews and Jew worshippers. We should be carpet bombing Saudi, Pakistan and Turkey, not seeking them as allies just so we can turn our countries into puppets of Mossad. Don't get me wrong, I wish Israel well. Its an amazing great country. I hope to see it expand. I hope to see more West Bank Muslim territory annexed to the Jewish homeland, but Iran is not our problem. Its Russia that should be worried about a nuclear Iran not us.