What are Saudi Arabians Going to Do with Their Massive Arms Build Up? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14944345
You have probably heard but not thought anything of the fact that Saudi Arabia has in recent decades been on an epic arms build up. I suppose when I first heard of it I just assumed it was just super rich people buying toys because what else do you do when you have more money than sense? The oil rich arab that buys super cars by the dozen, builds artificial islands and imports real snow for desert ski lodges stereotype. Spending for the sake of spending.

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But then again.. maybe there is an actual strategic purpose for all that military spending.. after all buying tanks and warplanes actually isn't really the same kind of extravagance as buying gold plated Bugatti Veyrons and the like. So what are they planning? A google search brings up this article:

What Is Saudi Arabia Going to Do With Its Arms Buildup?

The author's basic premise is that the motive for the build up is ultimately an economic one; that they can mitigate their declining economy with a territorial expansion through conquest. However what if the regime which is loosely implicated in 911 and is a major sponsor of Islamic missionaries actually is plotting to unite the Islamic world under a new Caliphate? If anyone was going to do this and actually succeed the Saudis would be pretty well placed as they of all the muslim countries have Mecca, vast oil wealth and a strategic location at the crossroads of the world. Having Mecca is the biggest asset really.

The author also assumes the Saudis would be squeamish about taking Iraq because that would mean assimilating a lot of those shia they despise so much, he is presumably forgetting that Saudis as muslims know very well how to deal with infidels so that you don't need to assimilate them at all ( :flamer: ). For this reason he doesn't even consider them going further and taking Iran as well.

He is probably right that Syria would be on the list of targets but he doesn't even contemplate Israel at all. I think that may be an oversight. If they wanted a caliphate rather than just higher oil prices or more oil fields then taking on Israel and actually winning would be a huge symbolic victory which would mark out to all the world's muslims that the Saudi Arabian regime is both worthy and blessed enough by Allah to be a new Caliphate. No matter how much they spend they can't conquer everyone so they will need to rally to their banner as much of the Sunni world as they can and a symbolic victory against Israel would give that a major boost.

What do you think they are up to?
#14944439
That is totally insane. The Saudis will never ever invade the Zionist entity. Where do you think the Saudis get their orders from the in the first place? Mossad are the defacto government of Saudi Arabia (and every other nation aside from, Venezuela, North Korea, Belarus, Syria and Iran). You need to study Icke more often, he has the answers.

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#14944446
The Saudis cannot even defeat the Houthis in Yemen, much less any of their other neighbors. You can't buy martial spirit when you have most of your upper class decadent and spoiled by their riches. Oh sure, when it's all said and done the Bedawi will remain in the desert and life will go on as it has since St. Abraham, and they have a martial spirit, but Warriors are not Soldiers in the modern sense.
#14944498
annatar1914 wrote:The Saudis cannot even defeat the Houthis in Yemen, much less any of their other neighbors. You can't buy martial spirit when you have most of your upper class decadent and spoiled by their riches. Oh sure, when it's all said and done the Bedawi will remain in the desert and life will go on as it has since St. Abraham, and they have a martial spirit, but Warriors are not Soldiers in the modern sense.


The Houthis may just be the target of a live fire exercise. Prior to the build up the House of Saud hadn't fought a campaign in something like a century and the military technology and general way of war is all different now. It would be wise for them to give their armed forces some practice of actual fighting using their new equipment before going out on the main quest where they are in danger of getting their shit pushed in by more experienced, if not necessarily better equipped, fighters. Martial spirit is born out of war, they'll need to war to get to develop it but being muslim helps a lot, a muslim has a religion primed for channelling the ferocity needed for war.
#14944585
SolarCross wrote:The Houthis may just be the target of a live fire exercise. Prior to the build up the House of Saud hadn't fought a campaign in something like a century and the military technology and general way of war is all different now. It would be wise for them to give their armed forces some practice of actual fighting using their new equipment before going out on the main quest where they are in danger of getting their shit pushed in by more experienced, if not necessarily better equipped, fighters. Martial spirit is born out of war, they'll need to war to get to develop it but being muslim helps a lot, a muslim has a religion primed for channelling the ferocity needed for war.


Not going to happen. Say that the Saudis did manage to regain some martial spirit; there's a difference between a warrior and a soldier, and Soldiers are the ones who win wars in the modern era.
#14944593
annatar1914 wrote:Not going to happen. Say that the Saudis did manage to regain some martial spirit; there's a difference between a warrior and a soldier, and Soldiers are the ones who win wars in the modern era.

Strictly speaking it is weapons that win wars in the modern era. At this point soldiers, at least the ones that matter such as fighter pilots, are as much specialised technicians as anything else. In that respect the Saudis are only a poor military in comparison with the tech producers of the west such as the UK, Germany, France, Russia and of course the US but if they want to go after Syria, Iraq or Iran then that isn't an issue so much unless one of the top tier militaries such as the US or Russia wants to interfere. That's the real gamble.
Last edited by SolarCross on 06 Sep 2018 11:49, edited 1 time in total.
#14944630
They are failing miserably in Yemen where the rebel’s even manage to strike Saudi territory. This despite American support and masses of Uber modern western arms.

The biggest problem with countries like Saudi getting a decent army is their fear of a coup. It forces them to fill the ranks with cronies. Usually spoilt rich boys with ties to the royal family and 0 inclination to risk their lives or put in any real effort.

These lazy brats fill the the command chain with incompetence and are relied on heavily as the system doesn’t promote low Down initiative either.

It’s not just command. All the pilots have royal connections too which is especially stupid as fighter pilots require a large amount of natural ability.
#14944651
Red_Army wrote: why do you have so much confidence in the Saudis, but just recently doubted Iran's ability to defend itself?

I doubted Iran versus the US, if I recall correctly. Given the gap in technology, allies etc I don't think that is far fetched. For that matter I don't think Saudi armed forces would do any better vs the US. That isn't what we are considering here though.
#14944652
SolarCross wrote:I doubted Iran versus the US, if I recall correctly. Given the gap in technology, allies etc I don't think that is far fetched. For that matter I don't think Saudi armed forces would do any better vs the US. That isn't what we are considering here though.


Saudi forces will run at the hint of fighting the US.

Modern warfare is not solely based on technology, this is something that people always keep forgetting. US military is not strong because of its modern equipment. It is strong because is has highly educated, professional and experienced army with decades of war experience. It will not run at the site of a fight, it will face it head on. Same thing can be said about the Russians. Russia is not feared because it has advanced equipment (Which NATO has also) but because their army is also professional(Not all, but core is), educated and highly experienced.

On the other hand, the Saudi army lacks all of that. It might have the equipment but their officers are poorly trained and not experienced. The communications between different army branches are not existant. I don't know how much military theory they use in their operations because most of their attacks look like a hastly made up plans of "we are going to attack here" or "we are going to launch a naval operation and take this city by surprise".

If you look at NATO or Russia, they have whole branches of military simply devoted to strategic and tactical analysis and thought.
#14944654
JohnRawls wrote:Saudi forces will run at the hint of fighting the US.

Modern warfare is not solely based on technology, this is something that people always keep forgetting. US military is not strong because of its modern equipment. It is strong because is has highly educated, professional and experienced army with decades of war experience. It will not run at the site of a fight, it will face it head on. Same thing can be said about the Russians. Russia is not feared because it has advanced equipment (Which NATO has also) but because their army is also professional(Not all, but core is), educated and highly experienced.

On the other hand, the Saudi army lacks all of that. It might have the equipment but their officers are poorly trained and not experienced. The communications between different army branches are not existant. I don't know how much military theory they use in their operations because most of their attacks look like a hastly made up plans of "we are going to attack here" or "we are going to launch a naval operation and take this city by surprise".

If you look at NATO or Russia, they have whole branches of military simply devoted to strategic and tactical analysis and thought.

Sure experience matters but you have to have parity technology for that to count. Watch the film zulu and tell me the zulu lacked "experience or skill" no what they lacked were breech loading rifles, it's just several orders of magnitude a better weapon than a broadbladed iron tipped short spear.

Right so the Saudis have decent gear but not experience, as I already said. How can they get experience? By fighting, that's the only way you can do it. Best way to start building up experience is pick on someone smaller than you like the Houthis. Nothing you say here contradicts anything I said.

Now it might be their project is a dismal failure but then again through practice they may develop the experience needed to start turning their part of the world upsidedown. Time will tell.
#14944677
The iraqi army was experienced, as are/were numerous armies and militias throughout Africa.

Bad experience can be worse than no experience. In the case of Saudi this could be morale sucking defeats or bad tactical habits.

As per above, you need sound strategy, communications and systems of command and control. Especially in modern ware fare where the dispersed nature of fighting demands coordination. Those fancy weapons are less than useless if not used right.

For example, Saudis are using unsupported tanks which become sitting ducks. No doubt this is due to lack of basic tactical knowledge and perhaps a fear of Saudis infantry ability.
#14944685
@SolarCross The Houthis are for all intents and purposes the Zulu in your example and the Saudis have got their shit kicked in time and time again. The Houthis aren't even in power in Yemen. They are simultaneously fighting AQAP and the Yemeni government while the Saudis try to kill them and yet they persist. If the US couldn't beat Vietnam, Saudi Arabia will never beat anyone.

The pussies brought lounge chairs to the 6-day war :lol:
#14944692
Red_Army wrote:The Houthis are for all intents and purposes the Zulu in your example and the Saudis have got their shit kicked in time and time again. The Houthis aren't even in power in Yemen. They are simultaneously fighting AQAP and the Yemeni government while the Saudis try to kill them and yet they persist. If the US couldn't beat Vietnam, Saudi Arabia will never beat anyone.

The pussies brought lounge chairs to the 6-day war :lol:


So far you are right. This is where the SA's inexperience is showing but I wouldn't be too sure to assume this will be a permanent state of affairs. It depends on if they can learn from their mistakes and so develop. The SA has had peace and wealth for a long time and it will take some time to shake out that flabbiness and develop some grit but it may only take one generation to do that. In any case the global game of strategics is a game without end, there are infinite generations yet to come to play.
#14945619
I guess the original idea was to contain Iranian influence and to recycle some Petro-Dollars. They helped the Americans to run covert operations for ousting the Soviets from Afghanistan, but Yemen and Syria show that the Saudis are a bunch of totally incapable pariahs. They could probably finance some mercenary armies to usurp hostile regimes, but they don't need all that fancy hardware to do that. The Saudi army would be totally incapable of invading another country - certainly not Iran. Which leaves the second objective: fuel the US military-industrial complex. Trump certainly loves them because of all the money they spend on US arms.
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