[Skynet]

Israel the last functioning democracy in the region, became a corrupt theocracy.

I think the reason is, lapid offered a vialable two state solution, which the Hamas rejected, this is a historic mistake by palestinians.

[late]

Israel the last functioning democracy in the region, became a corrupt theocracy.

I think the reason is, lapid offered a viable two state solution, which the Hamas rejected, this is a historic mistake by palestinians.

Rich wingnuts dragged the country to the Right same way they dragged this country to the Right.

However, I strongly doubt there was ever a serious chance of Israel cutting a deal with the Palestinians.

[Beren]

I strongly doubt there was ever a serious chance of Israel cutting a deal with the Palestinians.

There actually was, then the Israeli PM got assassinated by a Jewish Israeli ultranationalist somehow.

[late]

There actually was, then the Israeli PM got assassinated by a Jewish Israeli ultranationalist somehow.

That is precisely why I think there wasn't..

I'd point out that the next guy that tried wound up in a coma. How convenient...

[Skynet]

@late @Beren

Lapid offered a two state solution at the general assembly in New York, the Hamas did not appreciate this!

For me is the rule of law more important then democracy, and a corrupt prime minister who could end up in jail, will undermine the rule of law.

Israel is changing, the orthodox Jews have much more children then the secular.

[late]

Lapid offered a two state solution at the general assembly in New York, the Hamas did not appreciate this!

Good joke.

Too much land has been stolen for there to be a 2 state solution, and NY isn't part of Israel.

It would still be an apartheid...

[ness31]

The Lapid fellow was quite handsome. I can’t believe he lost to BiBi

[Rich]

Israel is changing, the orthodox Jews have much more children then the secular.

I'm a no-cuck Pagan Liberal. And I have been ever since I joined the forum. For some strange reason this seems to confuse people and they assume I'm a secret Nazi, a White supremacist even a Flat Earther. I'm sorry but you can't be both a White Supreamcist and a Nazi. You can be neither or either but not both. Hitler was the greatest genocider of so called White people in history. i don't tend to identify as Liberal because in modern parlance Liberal has become a byword for illiberalism, for anti Liberalism. The modern "Liberal" opposes free speech, demands arbitrary appropriations of private property and massive regulation of if not the outright destruction of the free market. In many cases they seek to overthrow democracy as well.

Anyway as a no cuck Pagan I oppose the fetishisation of the oppression of Jews in the middle Ages, when we Pagans were being out and out gencocided. I also oppose the fetishisation of the sufferings of Jews in the modern era over not just Pagans but also over Christians for example the genocide of the Armenians and the Greeks by the Turkish and Kurdish Muslims. In the modern witch hunt frenzie where the number one moral task is to uncloak secret Nazis and White supremacists any deviation of the establishment script is taken as proof of White supremacist Nazism. Of course things aren't as bad as Salem, but that is the direction of travel. Never mind issues with gender pronouns, in today's world even something as seemingly innocent as questioning NASA's budget can be taken as proof of Nazism.

Anyway back to the subject at hand. I ask a simple question, where in the Middle East do Pagans have the greatest freedom and security? There is not a shadow of doubt, the home of freedom in the Middle East not just for Pagans, but also Atheists, Christians and semi Muslims like the Druze and the Alawites is Israel. Therefore I have not the slightest hesitation in welcoming the return of Benjamin Netanyahu. The higher birth rate of Orthodox Druze is good for Pagans, indeed all infidels that have not been Stockholm syndromed into identifying with their Muslim oppressors.

[Skynet]

Good joke.

Too much land has been stolen for there to be a 2 state solution, and NY isn't part of Israel.

It would still be an apartheid...

Which option do the palestinians have???

Continue the Intifada and shoot some rockets???


Israel is a nuclear power which tested together the A-Bomb with Apartheid South-Africa.

[late]

Which option do the Palestinians have???

None at all, they are doomed.

[wat0n]

Which option do the palestinians have???

Continue the Intifada and shoot some rockets???


Israel is a nuclear power which tested together the A-Bomb with Apartheid South-Africa.

I think they can be honest and soften their positions.

Honest, about the fact they don't control Hamas and Gaza in general.

And, as a result, soften some of their positions. Particularly on refugees, more so than land.

[Rich]

Which option do the palestinians have???

Continue the Intifada and shoot some rockets???

Why are you and others so obsessed by Palestinian rights? Why do Liberals so desperately care about the four million Muslims in the Palestinian territories, but seem to show so little interest in the rights of the hundred million Egyptians. Why are so many people both inside and outside of America so troubled by the US's friendship with the Israeli democracy, but so little bothered by its friendship with the fascist regimes in Egypt and Saudi Arabia?

[Skynet]

Why are you and others so obsessed by Palestinian rights? Why do Liberals so desperately care about the four million Muslims in the Palestinian territories, but seem to show so little interest in the rights of the hundred million Egyptians. Why are so many people both inside and outside of America so troubled by the US's friendship with the Israeli democracy, but so little bothered by its friendship with the fascist regimes in Egypt and Saudi Arabia?

One of the reasons is the UNO founded this state and Israel dose not care about any UNO resolution.

Apartheid is not so funny.

[starman2003]

Why are you and others so obsessed by Palestinian rights? Why do Liberals so desperately care about the four million Muslims in the Palestinian territories, but seem to show so little interest in the rights of the hundred million Egyptians.

At least Egyptians have self determination, a state of their own.

Why are so many people both inside and outside of America so troubled by the US's friendship with the Israeli democracy, but so little bothered by its friendship with the fascist regimes in Egypt and Saudi Arabia?

Part of the reason is that both regimes satisfy a key US criterion: support for peace with Israel. Give the masses in those nations real democracy and that could change fast, and considerably.

[Deutschmania]

After affirming his support for Palestinian statehood at the UN General Assembly, Israeli Prime Minister Yair Lapid came under fire from right-wing critics and stirred doubts among the Palestinians on Friday.

His speech in New York on Thursday came with Israel headed for elections on November 1 that could oust the centrist Lapid and see the return of his rival, the hawkish Benjamin Netanyahu.

The premier reiterated his long-held position that a two-state solution to the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian conflict was in Israel's interest, a notion that faded during Netanyahu's 2009-2021 tenure as prime minister.

Despite existing "obstacles", he said, "an agreement with the Palestinians, based on two states for two peoples, is the right thing for Israel's security, for Israel's economy and for the future of our children".

Lapid contended a large majority of Israelis supported a two-state solution, "and I am one of them".

"We have only one condition: that a future Palestinian state be peaceful," said Lapid, without calling for a resumption of peace talks.

There were many who cheered the speech, including US President Joe Biden, who called it "courageous".

But back home, critics lined up to weigh in.

In his own address to the world body on Friday, Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas charged that Israel, "through its current premeditated and deliberated policies" was "destroying" any prospect of a two-state solution.

While Lapid's comments were "positive", Abbas said, "the real test of the seriousness and credibility of (his) position is the Israeli government sitting at the negotiating table immediately, to implement the two-state solution".

The proliferation of Jewish settlements throughout the occupied West Bank, communities widely considered illegal under international law, is a major hurdle to Palestinian statehood.

Arab Israeli lawmaker Sami Abu Shahadeh dismissed Lapid's comments as mere "sweet talk".

'Centre of international stage'
On the Israeli side, Netanyahu accused Lapid of aiding the Palestinians by raising their cause at the UN's top gathering.

The premier was putting "the Palestinians back at the centre of the international stage and sending Israel back into the Palestinian pit", he said.

"Today he (Lapid) wants to give the Palestinians a terrorist state in the heart of Israel and that state is going to threaten us.

"But let me tell you this Mr. Lapid: My partners and I will not let you," said Netanyahu, referring to the ultra-conservatives and Jewish religious lawmakers he hopes will form his next coalition.

Lapid came to government as part of a motley coalition of hawks, centrists, doves and Arab Islamists, united chiefly in their desire to oust Netanyahu after 12 straight years in power.

He took over as interim prime minister when former premier Naftali Bennett resigned in June, saying he could no longer hold the coalition together.

Political analyst Dahlia Scheindlin told AFP that, with elections looming, Lapid's speech may have been an effort to win over voters from the Israeli left, Arabs and the centre-right.

"Anyone already voting for Lapid knew basically that he is inclined towards the two state-solution," Scheindlin told AFP.

"Beyond the question of the polls, it gives him a good image because he finally takes a clear, courageous and explicit position when one of his great weaknesses is to be perceived as vague or empty from an ideological point of view," she added. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220923-lapid-under-fire-over-backing-palestinian-statehood-at-un

I myself feel that, from what I have read, the main reason why Yair Lapid failed to win the premiership was due to the failure of the parties of the Israeli left to form a coalition bloc.

The decision to call an early election caught the Israeli left in one of the most difficult situations it has ever faced. The historic sociopolitical movement, for decades the largest one in the country, found that it had lost most of its supporters.

After many years in which the left took no part in government, the decision to join the coalition in May 2021 took a steep toll on Meretz and Labor. Both were forced to make major ideological concessions because the other parties that formed the coalition identified with the ideological right. Furthermore, they were sitting in a coalition in which the office of prime minister was held, at least temporarily, by the leader of one of those parties, Naftali Bennett of Yamina.

The concessions that Meretz and Labor made centered mainly around the peace process. For years, both parties argued that Israel was gambling on its future because negotiations with the Palestinians were deadlocked, and former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not believe in a two-state solution. Then, when the opportunity to remove Netanyahu appeared, the two parties said that they were temporarily willing to put aside their commitment to a two-state solution and their call for an end to the occupation if that would lead to Netanyahu’s removal from power. Meretz faced more than a few embarrassing situations in the year that they were part of the coalition. Mostly, key members of the government, led by Minister of the Interior Ayelet Shaked, opposed the evacuation of outposts in the West Bank and opposed negotiations with the Palestinian leadership. Meretz and Labor were willing to look aside and put their ideology on hold, but now that is taking a toll on the parties.

According to opinion polls, Meretz, led by Health Minister Nitzan Horowitz, is teetering on the electoral threshold, while the Labor Party under Merav Michaeli will likely win just five or six seats.

In the four previous elections, Meretz and Labor each faced the risk of disappearing from the political map entirely, only to be saved at the very last moment. Now, the fear that they might disappear has resurfaced, along with concern in the center-left bloc led by caretaker Prime Minister Yair Lapid that if Meretz does not pass the electoral threshold, Netanyahu will win 61 seats and return to the Prime Minister’s Office. In other words, paradoxically, it could be Meretz that returns Netanyahu to power.

This poses a complicated dilemma for the party. Should they withdraw from the race all together, if polls show that it will not pass the electoral threshold or should they keep fighting to the bitter end, even if it means putting the entire center-left bloc at risk?

As if that was not enough, a rocky and often emotional dispute is emerging in Meretz over who should lead the party.

Last week on July 5, Minister of Regional Cooperation Issawi Frej announced that he was withdrawing from political life and then called on Meretz leader Nitzan Horowitz to resign. Frej accused Horowitz of lacking basic leadership skills, which resulted (so claimed Frej) in his failure to manage the party’s Knesset members. Frej believes that this is the reason why Knesset member Ghaida Renawie Zoabi quit the coalition, contributing to the collapse of the coalition. Zoabi is a Muslim Arab woman recruited by Horowitz and granted a safe spot on the party’s list.

Frej’s departure from politics, especially now, is bad news for Meretz. In the past few election campaigns, Frej, an Arab, was able to convince enough members of the Arab public to cast their ballots for a Jewish/Arab party like Meretz. His departure and Zoabi’s slamming the door on the party means that Meretz could lose many of those same Arab voters.

Despite calls for Horowitz’s resignation, so far he has shown no indication that he intends to give up his position. Instead, he plans to run again for the party’s No. 1 spot against Minister of Economics Maj. Gen. Yair Golan (res.). Golan is something an outlier in a party that is so critical of IDF activities in the territories. If he wins, it would be the first time that the party was headed by a general.

The fight over who will lead a party that might not even pass the electoral threshold reflects the tough situation facing Meretz. It is a sign of the confusion facing a party that has always stood on principle.

The last time Meretz was a member of any coalition was back in 1999 when they were part of Ehud Barak’s government. Now it seems as if their recent stint in government and all the benefits this entails have caused the party to forego its strict commitment to certain key political principles, especially the peace process. That is apparently why so many voters have abandoned it.

The future of the Labor party is not that bright either, and for similar reasons. Like Meretz ministers, ministers of Labor did not insist on pushing ahead with the peace process, making do instead with removing Netanyahu from power. The problem is that this is not the kind of ideology that can stand on its own.

And so, the insistence on sticking to an “anyone but Netanyahu” agenda at the expense of other objectives is taking a toll on the two left-wing parties. According to opinion polls, many of their voters are expected to migrate to Yesh Atid, the party led by Yair Lapid. He is emerging as the unchallenged leader of the center-left camp. Lapid is a popular figure on the left. Many voters who would otherwise disagree with him, mostly on issues like settlements, might actually support him on Nov. 1. They feel it would be safer to cast their votes in favor of a large party and in favor of someone who actually stands a chance to establish a coalition. Pollsters call this “strategic voting.” If this happens, Meretz could pay the price. Not only could it see the end of its political life, but it could face the blame if Netanyahu returns to power as a result.

One person who realizes that the left needs a facelift and a new beginning is Frej. Ever since his resignation, he has called for the formation of a single, large social-democratic party. He said, “The vision of forming a large center-left party based on Labor and Meretz should be implemented quickly.”

The problem is that this consolidation of forces, as happened in an earlier election, was rejected this week by the leader of the Labor party, Merav Michaeli. She said recently that together with other Labor members, they are building a reliable center-left party. Then she added that past experiments to join forces with Meretz had failed. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/07/israeli-leftist-parties-enter-elections-weak-hand

Justice Minister Gideon Sa’ar vowed Sunday that his center-right National Unity party will not form a coalition with a narrow majority that relies on Hadash-Ta’al, even after those two Arab-majority parties parted ways with the more extreme Balad party.

Sa’ar, who is No. 2 in National Unity behind the party leader, Defense Minister Benny Gantz, made the comments in an interview with the Kol A-Nas Arabic-language website about the coming November 1 elections.

He accused Hadash leader Ayman Odeh and Ta’al chief Ahmad Tibi of harboring extremist views that prevent them from being partners he can trust to be part of a governing coalition.

“We are very familiar with the positions of Odeh and Tibi. They are extremists, sometimes also anti-Israeli,” Sa’ar said.

“We won’t join a government that relies on extremist elements, because a government that relies on extremist elements won’t survive,” he said. Sa’ar noted that he was only presenting the position of National Unity, and not that of Prime Minister Yair Lapid, who leads the centrist Yesh Atid party.

“We won’t agree to a government that rests” on Hadash-Ta’al, “period,” he said. “The only solution now is a broad national unity government, and the only one who can form such a government is Benny Gantz.” National Unity is an alliance between Sa’ar’s right-wing New Hope party and Gantz’s centrist Blue and White. In a move that was seen as having a significant impact on the outcome of the election, the Hadash and Ta’al parties last week split from the hardline Palestinian nationalist Balad, which said it will run alone.

Polls predict that Balad is far below the 3.25-percent threshold for entry into the Knesset, potentially wasting many thousands of votes and handing a parliamentary majority to the right-wing religious bloc of parties loyal to opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu.

But the Hadash-Ta’al alliance is expected to win four seats, which — if Netanyahu’s bloc doesn’t get a 61-seat majority in the 120-member Knesset — could put it in a kingmaker position in the parliament, where an ongoing political deadlock and four previous national elections since 2019 have frequently featured no party or bloc having a clear path to a majority.

Hadash-Ta’al and Balad both oppose a return to power of former prime minister Netanyahu, whose bloc is polling at around 59-60 seats, on the cusp of a majority.

Yesh Atid is leading the bloc of parties opposing Netanyahu, with National Unity polling at lower numbers but saying it is the only party that can bridge the gaps between the pro- and anti-Netanyahu blocs.

If Balad fails to pass the threshold, as expected, Hadash-Ta’al could be left holding the key seats needed by Lapid’s bloc to reach a majority. However, without National Unity, Lapid would still come up short.

Lapid — and Sa’ar — partnered with Ra’am, an Islamist party, to form the previous government, a diverse mix of eight parties from the left, center and right. The government ultimately collapsed after a year, following rebellions by individual lawmakers from various right-wing and left-wing coalition parties. Times of Israel

With four days left, no clear coalition can be created following Tuesday’s election, according to a final poll carried out by Panels Politics on behalf of Maariv.

As in a similar poll last Friday, the Netanyahu bloc received 60 seats, the Lapid bloc received 56 seats and Hadash-Ta’al received the remaining four, the survey found.

The only movement took place within the blocs. Shas gained one seat at the expense of United Torah Judaism, and Yesh Atid grew by two seats at the expense of Labor.The poll showed Meretz, Labor, Hadash-Ta’al and Ra’am barely passing the electoral threshold of 3.25% of the general vote.

The full results were Likud 31, Yesh Atid 25, Religious Zionist Party 14, National Unity 12, Shas nine, UTJ six, Yisrael Beytenu six, Meretz five, and Labor, Hadash-Ta’al and Ra’am at four each. Habayit Hayehudi led by Interior Minister Ayelet Shaked once again failed to pass the threshold with just 2.1% of the general vote.

Balad won 1.8% of the vote, and the Economic Party led by Prof. Yaron Zelekha won 1.2%. No other party won more than 1%.

The poll included 1,005 respondents, with a 3.1% margin of error.

In other news, former Yamina MK Abir Kara revealed that Shaked had offered him a deal in which he would quit the race and support her, and in exchange receive an economic ministerial position.

Kara refused the offer, arguing that this amounted to effectively “selling his soul to the polluted political mechanism” that he was trying to fight.

UTJ’s MK Moshe Gafni said in an interview on Walla TV that Netanyahu had intended to form a coalition with Ra’am’s support “from the outside,” meaning that Ra’am would only vote in favor of the coalition’s formation but then not actively take part in it. This contradicted Netanyahu and the Likud’s denial that they had intended to do so. In the current campaign, Likud has accused Ra’am of being “terror supporters.”

Gafni’s comment came after recordings leaked earlier this week of RZP chairman MK Bezalel Smotrich calling Netanyahu the “liar of all liars.” Smotrich in the recording said Netanyahu had indeed intended on forming a coalition with Ra’am, and this was avoided only because RZP rejected it.

Meretz and Hadash-Ta’al continued their “gevalt” campaign to get the public to vote for them since there was a chance they would not pass the electoral threshold.

“There is no easy way to say this,” Meretz leader Zehava Galon said. “We are five days before the election, and this morning we received a number of public opinion polls that show unequivocally: In the current state of affairs, Meretz is facing a clear option of not passing the electoral threshold,” Galon said. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-720846

The Lapid fellow was quite handsome. I can’t believe he lost to BiBi

He really looked handsome in this clip, from the 90's in which he interviewed TV actress Fran Drescher.

[ness31]

Looks like he came directly off the set of ER! Yeah man , no doubt he was and still is a bit of a hottie, AND he was for a 2 state solution. Literally whole package