Female Circumcision & Sexual Slavery in Saudi Arabia - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15303273
This following interview is from an archive no longer available online.
(Obviously this cannot be directly confirmed but would be horrendous if true)

"
This is the fate of many Saudi women and, guess what? quite a few kidnapped western girls as well while our own governments look studiously away in the direction only of oil! Translated private interview from Saudi Arabia forwarded to me & many others in a desperate attempt to get the word out

Doctor Muzaffar: I have a medical practice in Jizan, Saudi Arabia which I practice female circumcision. I am a Egyptian and still spend much time there, but spend much time at my clinic in the Kingdom. My husband travels with me. Female circumcision is well established in Egypt and is now spreading in the Kingdom from the Tihama region of the Arabian peninsula. The locals have practiced in for many years and now the Saudi religious police have encouraged its spread in the Kingdom.

RZ: Why did you pick there to set up your practice if female Circumcision is easily available.

Doctor Muzaffar: I was recruited in my homeland, Egypt, by the religious police as circumcising the young may be done by midwives, there was few trained female Doctors in the kingdom that had experience in circumcising grown women.

RZ: Religious police?

Doctor Muzaffar: Yes , this is the new more tolerant religious police, where in the past Prostitution or Adultery was punishable by stoning , now sometimes they simply have the accused circumcised and , or infibulated. They bring them to my clinic and they are my guest for a day or two. I also Train nurses for the religious police to preform female circumcision. after a training period they are moved to female hospitals in other Kingdom cities. Clitoridectomy is not not a hard thing to learn for the average nurse. The religious police feel that female circumcision has many positive benefits. It calms women, ends lesbian activities, discourages adultery and prostitution. It allows women to concentrate on being good wives and mothers.

RZ: I thought that female circumcision was limited in Saudi Arabia.

Doctor Muzaffar: that was true for the most part in the past, it has always been present along the red sea and the areas that boarder Yemen. In the last few years it has grown allot spreading throughout the Kingdom. The west would have no way of knowing as women and women's issues are kept private. And the foreign women that are guest in the harems are kept out of sight. With modern security, there is little chance that once they are here that anyone will hear from them again. Even if they managed to escape the harem it would be all but impossible for them to escape Saudi Arabia. The religious police would return them to their masters. Currently I would say that at least 25% of all women in Saudi Arabia are circumcised. It is growing popularity and with the growing number of trained midwives within a generation all women who have bore a child should have had the tip of their clitoris removed.

RZ: What is your clinic like?

Doctor Muzaffar: State of the art. a all female staff as this is women's business. My husband handles the dealings with the authorities and various male clients but he is not allowed into the secure treatment wing. The facility has no windows but is air conditioned which is a benefit as it is very hot and humid here in Jizan. For security there is only one entrance, an electric garage door. When a patient arrives the auto or van enters the garage door after putting a security code into electronic box. The inner door wont open till the outer one closes. Much of my 12 person female staff lives on site as well as all nurse trainees. There are food preparation facilities as well as 36 patient rooms and three treatment rooms, everything we need under one roof.

RZ: What are the patient rooms like?

Doctor Muzaffar: Very spartan, Small shower and toilet area, a bed. no window, no door knob on inside, remember some of our guest are wards of the Religious police. They would be hard to deal with if we lost one. each room has a video monitor that feeds to a central control center for monitoring.

RZ: What are the the treatment rooms like?

Doctor Muzaffar: Tiled in white floors, ceilings, walls. Kept spotlessly clean. Very bright and well lit. there is various medical equipment and supplies. And of course the treatment table.

RZ: What are the the treatment tables like?

Doctor Muzaffar: Again state of the art. It is very important that the patient not move during the operation and my table sees to that. It has a stainless steel frame and black leather padding. Unactivated it looks more like a lounge chair. The patient is led into the treatment room in a white gown and ask to sit. Once seated my assistants secure their charge to the treatment chair. Straps above and below the knee as well as across the instep of each foot. Wide leather straps across the belly above and below the breast. Another wide quite tight strap across the lower belly. The the wrist are placed in leather cuffs back against the chair even with the shoulders. Then the chair tips back and the legs spread into the classical Gyno chair. There are metal curves under the knees. The patient finds herself on her back Head down , legs spread. The activation of the chair tightens all the straps very securely. She will find she is totally immobilized. Once secured we shave the pubic hair, the area is cleaned with soap, then we treat the entire area with an antiseptic. At this point she is ready for me to circumcise her. If allowed by the authorities I take a needle and deaden the nerves around and leading to the clitoris. I start giving injections in a radial configuration. The last I give an injection under the clitoris into the main nerve. In most cases they will tense and groan a little at this point as the nerve is deadend.

RZ: What about a gag?

Doctor Muzaffar: No I don't see that as needed as we pay little attention to anything the patient says. If she is being cut on orders of the Religious police then one of my nurses places a rubber tongue depressant into the patients mouth and holds it into place. also a strap across the forehead is put into place and tightened . This gives her something to bite on as she is cut.The religious police dint allow us to use pain killers The patients from other sources I give injections into the local areas and they feel nothing. Most go to the table without much fuss , but some we have to drag kicking and screaming.

Some young brides are brought in and we simply clip the tip of their clitoris off. It's pretty minor but very effective at controlling female behavior. Also I have a growing demand from the estates of the ruling class. In the Kingdom men can have up to four wives and many concubines. Some of the princes have many more than four wives. We have many very rich men and they have palaces where their women are kept out of site.It has become quite fashionable for a wealthy man to have his concubines circumcised. This also makes the religious leaders happy in knowing that many of these concubines are circumcised and their sexuality is controlled. Many religious leaders feel that it is a woman's place to provide pleasure to the male and bear children without receiving pleasure themselves, especially if they are infidel women.

RZ: Infidel women?

Doctor Muzaffar: Yes, from many places, like the Balkins, Russia, Greece, France, Ireland and much of Europe. a few from America and other nations. Scandinavia is very popular. The young , the pretty, the stupid... Many college girls. They are easy to acquire. Some of the rich will go on hunting trips as they are called. They simply seduce a bird that they fancy, fly her to the Kingdom where she simply disappears into a harem to never be heard from again. Many of the older Princes will hire a recruiter to find him the right candidate. Once here she is turned over to the old man to do with as he pleases. Several of the recruiters bring the candidates here for circumcision to calm them down before going onto their final destination. It is surprising how few western women know what female circumcision is. As a general rule when they arrive here they have no idea what we plan to do to them. You can imagine their surprise when they discover that we have removed their clitoris.

RZ: Are these women not looked for? What about their governments?

Doctor Muzaffar: Their governments don't care, they only want oil; if a few of their women end up in harems, they couldn't care less. The women will never be heard from again. They are kept locked away where they please their master and bear his children. The circumcision calms them and prevents them from masturbating and dreaming of their past life and old boyfriends.

RZ: Tell me about the circumcision procedure?

Doctor Muzaffar: It's about the clitoris. There are variation but the removal of the clitoris is central. The majority of circumcisions are simply snipping it off. This is most effective in controlling female behavior. 90% of the pleasure nerves are in the very tip. By just snipping off the tip will have the desired effect on female behavior. Masturbation will no longer be an option, they will find it just doesn't work anymore and will loose interest in trying to climax through masturbation. I have been training a steady stream of midwives who duties in the Kingdom outside of assisting with births is to see that no new mother leaves the maternity ward with her clitoris. This is a good time to circumcise women. with all the trauma from the birth the snipping the tip of the clitoris is hardly noticed, many women wont even notice its gone till the return to regular relations with their husbands. This makes her a better mother and wife. The religious police insist on clitoridectomy, .excision of the labia minora, incision of the labia majora and resewing it, leaving only a tiny hole to urinate out of. Also the clitoridectomy is far more in depth than just snipping the tip , the entire root is cut out. This is done to prostitutes and women taken in adultery.

I first take a hand clamp tool and grasp the clitoris and pull it out from the body and I make a oval incision around the base of the clitoris. With a scalpel I cut the surrounding flesh till the clitoris is held by the root. Below the clitoris head the main clitoris nerve I pull on the clitoris as hard as possible, pulling it by the attached nerve as far from the body as possible. and make a clean cut as deep as possible. There is allot of the clitoris that is removed that is not in the simple procedure. I then excision the labia minora followed by the incision of the labia majora and then I sew the mouth of the Vagina closed connecting the raw edges. There is a small hole to urinate out and pass menstrual blood. Not being able to use pain killers as defined by the religious police the woman are screaming and struggling but my special chair doesn't allow any movement. I always use pain killers if allowed by law.

My signature treatment is called the harem cut. Many of the western women that are bound for harems I do a full deep circumcision follow es by a modified infibulation. Not the sealing of the mouth of the vagina but once the clitoris is removed I tighten the top of the vagina with a couple of stitches after a incision at the top of the labia majora. My clients like this effect as it makes it tighter for her master. unless requested so I don't excision the labia minora. I don't think it matters as there isn't enough nerves to allow masturbation or climax during sex, though the labia minora may add to the pleasure of the male. the male seem to like my harem cut over the snip or the infibulation. Of course I can do lots of variations...

If a circumcision is done right, there is no chance of a future climax, ever. The harem cut removes the clitoris and its root. The tightning of the top of the vulva also helps to isolate any nerve root that might be left. The tighning helps the male climax faster, thus decreasing the stimulation the female gets. Even vigrious masturbation will be fruitless. She might as well be rubbing her elbow. Snipping the tip might leave a small chance but when I harem cut them there is no chance what so ever. She should not be concerned in her pleasure but providing the male pleasure and children.

RZ: Is it not possible to escape from Saudi Arabia? Do the Saudi authorities take the passport of these western women ?

Doctor Muzaffar: Once in the Kingdom, escape is all but impossible. Women can not travel in Saudi Arabia with out being acompanied by a male. Women can not drive. Should she get loose the Religious police would return her to her master. The Tattoo with the house crest marks who the woman belongs to. I have visited a few of the harems to do onsite circumcisions as some Pashas don't like to transport there concubines outside the walls of their harem.

These are state of the art facilities. One I visited was surrounded by a smooth 15 foot high wall with electric wire on top, inside that is a garden. In the center was the palace harem. Barred window, no telephones, no televisions. There were cameras everywhere. The concubines wore golden collars that had a shock feature if they got out of bounds. The collars used some kind of electronic locking system. Once placed around the neck, it could not be removed without a computer pass code.

There were several western women there, a dozen or so. One was named Abigale who was from England, about 19, Tall, blue eyes, had long blonde hair, very pretty. She had boarded a private jet with a Royal, she did not even have a passport and was flown directly To the Kingdom. She turned out to be a gift to a older uncle of the young royal. She wanted to return to England but she was her master's property now. They had me circumcise and tattoo her with the house crest her belly first. The circumcision always calms them down. She was free now to consentrate on bearing her masters children.

The pasha who was the master of the harem was rather old , I would say late 70s. He still enjoyed the women and sired many children even at his age. There was no way she was going to get out of the collar, get through the barred windows, scale the high wall. Clear the electric wire on top. Should she manage this she would find herself in a country that dosn't allow women to roam about. The religious police would pick her up and the tattoo on her belly would tell them where to return her to. Even if she had a passport it would be of no use to her.

On my visit to this harem I circumcised and tattooed all the concubines and wives - about thirty in all. All ages. One was a woman from Sweden who had been there sense the 70s. She was 52 and had borne the master several children. She had been abducted while on holiday from college, Brought to the Kingdom, placed in this harem and had not left there for any reason for over 30 years. She birthed all nine of her children there. They had me circumcise her also. I tightened her up quite a bit.

In short if you are a guest in a harem in Saudi Arabia, there is no escape, the government and society sees to it.

RZ: Are these western girls clitoris is only removed, are they infibulated? [Infibulation means stiching vagina closed]

Doctor Muzaffar: If the woman is brought to me by the religious police for a crime, say Adultry, prostitution, masturbation, then they have me circumcise and infibulate them. Few western women are infibulated as their purpose is to serve as concubines to provide pleasure for the man and bear him children. In the harem cut, I do stich the top of the vulva after I remove the clitoris. This is not like infibulation which bars entry, but tightens the grip of the mouth of the vaginia on the male member.

RZ: What instruments does the doctor use? Any special equipment or instruments, particularly for the Western women?

Doctor Muzaffar: A curved cresent scalpel, surgical scissors, grasping forceps, surgical retractors, surgical knives, needle syringes, alligator forceps, laryngeal mirrors, alpha-wave inducer. This is a device, worn on the forehead which induces variable levels of unconsciousness, from sleep to complete anesthesia. The effect wears off approximately 15 minutes after the device is deactivated. Alpha-wave induction is a good alternative to drug-induced general anesthesia in surgical patients... Neural imaging scan test that provides detailed information about a patient’s central nervous system function, I have used this device to study the best technices to make circumcision as effective as possible. I have started using a snare wire which is a very fine and sharp cutting tool that consists of a fine but strong wire and a handle. They are quite commonly used in endoscopic surgery for cutting tumors and polyps. The wire is placed around the base of the clitoris, cauterized and then severed with the wire loop. I have found that this works well in performing clitoridectomy.
"

http://www.ampbreia.com/ampbreia2_054.htm
http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/SaudiArabia.htm

_________________________________________________

Analeigh, 19 years old, interview with Tyra Banks on America's Next Top Model


"Saudi Arabs Buy American Girls", uploaded by IamJacksColon4, YouTube

transcript from part of the video:

"Tell me a little about your Saudi Arabia price tag."

"A woman approached me and said that she was representing an agency, and that she loved me -- and had I ever considered modeling and that she’d love me to work for her, and -- it was opening soon."

"Did you get signed to an agency or… "

"I was never signed to an agency because they never started it. They always said, “Oh, it will be starting soon, just, you know, just come meet all these… men. One night I went out to dinner with them and here’s… a prince. All of a sudden I was his dinner date, and I was really uncomfortable with this, and I started getting phone calls and messages, being like “Well, you need to come to Saudi Arabia with us, he wants to make you his wife."

"So where you sold?!"

"What happens is they have recruits in America, and so these men go to the recruits and pay a certain amount of money for a girl."

"I'm glad you got out of it and that you're safe."

_________________________________________________

Posted by Ladylocks
May 10, 2005

" While it's no secret that over 500,000 women are sold every year as sex slaves from eastern europe worldwide to asia, middle east, western europe and the states- You should be aware that American girls are not immune to it either.

I used to live in Saudi Arabia for 2 years. Anybody who was invited there to work could never leave without their sponsors permission. You could be stuck there for life if your sponsor wanted it so. It was common knowledge that many of the maids were raped and a girls testimony did not apply in court.

In any case, you tend to to see a lot of arabic speaking white girls (red hair, blonde hair etc.) who are obviously mixed race and a product of their mothers being sex slaves in harems. Yes harems do exisit in these countries. Helping american captives is a low priority for the u.s government because they want to have good relations and keep the oil flow going. There have been many cases of american wives married to saudis who were trying to leave, and were denied help by u.s embassy.

How is this relavent to american girls- I once drove in front of a compound (harem) where there were a few hundred girls going in and out of the place. Many of them were east european, but then there were quite a few who looked and spoke in an american accent. I later heard stories from people that many were tricked by their greedy boyfriends into lucrative offers and some were even kidnapped by cargo ships in the coastal areas on the east and west coast because many places are unguarded. "

http://www.hipforums.com/forum/topic/85 ... e-slavery/

_________________________________________________

Wall Street Journal, 13 June 2002, page A18, "Daughters of America."
"As William McGurn reported Tuesday in an article on this page, Pat Roush's two daughters, Alia and Aisha, were kidnapped from America in 1986. On Monday she learned that her Saudi ex-husband has married off Aisha in what she believes is retribution for her participation in these hearings." "Unfortunately, the State Department has not yet recognized that when an American child is kidnapped, or when an American woman charged with no crime is held against her will, it's not just an affront to the individual. It's an affront to America."
"Saudi law forbids women of any age from leaving their country without permission. Another way of stating those same facts would be to say that two adult U.S. citizens are trapped in a country where women are treated as the property of men..."

_________________________________________________

Some will claim that FGM is not going on in Saudi Arabia but that's just not true.

For one thing, FGM is known to be practiced in the North (bordering Iraq) and South (bordering Yemen) of the country.

A study that was conducted in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia among 4800 pregnant women found that 38% of them had been subjected to FGM.
http://en.wadi-online.de/index.php?opti ... Itemid=108
Chibber R, El-Saleh E, El Harmi J.: Female circumcision: obstetrical and psychological sequelae continues unabated in the 21st century; J Matern Fetal Neonatal Med, 2011. 24(6): p. 833-6

This is what Wikipedia had to say:
"Female genital mutilation is present in Saudi Arabia. FGM is most prevalent in Saudi regions following Shafi'i school within the Sunni sect of Islam, such as Hejaz, Tihamah and Asir. In a clinical study, Alsibiani and Rouzi provide evidence of the practice in Saudi Arabia. Another 2010 report claims post-FGM medical complications are an indicator of widespread prevalence of the practice in Saudi women. A 2012 study finds, that of the Saudi women who had FGM, Type III was more common than Type I or II."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalenc ... udi_Arabia

"Type III" is one of the worst: http://www.dofeve.org/types-of-fgm.html

There is anecdotal evidence that the practice of FGM may even be spreading due to religious reasons. Sheikh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid, a popular muslim preacher appearing on TV broadcasts in the country, insists that circumcision is religiously prescribed for men and women.
(source: https://islamqa.info/en/60314 )


two other related threads:
Foreign women living under virtual slavery in Saudi Arabia
India: women locked into CHASTITY BELTS !
#15305364
ALL circumcision needs to be ended.

Early-circumcised men reported lower attachment security and lower emotional stability while no differences in empathy or trust were found. Early circumcision was also associated with stronger sexual drive and less restricted socio-sexuality along with higher perceived stress and sensation seeking.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7702013/
#15305366
Godstud wrote:ALL circumcision needs to be ended.

Early-circumcised men reported lower attachment security and lower emotional stability while no differences in empathy or trust were found. Early circumcision was also associated with stronger sexual drive and less restricted socio-sexuality along with higher perceived stress and sensation seeking.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7702013/


It also significantly lowers chances of contracting STD's and urinary infections. As long as they freeze the child's weiner during the procedure I don't see how it would be that traumatic.

Male dogs routinely have their entire testicles removed and I don't see psychological trauma, but who knows.
#15305367
The claims of it doing medical things are disputed. Significant? FALSE!!!

Note whenever they say this they say: The possible medical benefits of circumcision include: A lower risk of HIV.


Circumcised children have a slightly lower risk of urinary tract infection (UTI), though the risk of an uncircumcised child having a UTI in the first year of life is also quite low: 1%. The procedure slightly lowers risk of penile cancer, which is already a rare cancer in the U.S.

Slightly, not "significant".

Why do it in the first place? And, incidentally, anesthetic wears off.

Circumcision before an age of consent is not a desirable health-promotion strategy, given more effective, and less ethically problematic, alternatives.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4364150/

unthinking majority wrote:Male dogs routinely have their entire testicles removed and I don't see psychological trauma, but who knows.
:roll: That's not an argument. It's also irrelevant as we're not talking about medical castration in humans or dogs. I doubt you can ascertain psychologic trauma in dogs with any degree of accuracy, too. If you do not have a real argument, then just say so.
#15305373
@Godstud comparing male circumsision with FMG is disgusting.

Males have lower risk for diseases because it is dry.

Robbing a woman of their clitoris and orgasm is nothing else then barbaric. The orgasm plays a role in getting pregnant and giving birth to a healthy child.

Edit: Somalia has the highest FGM




@Puffer Fish
There is not one Islam, like there is not one Christianity.

MBS will hopefully reform Saudi-Arabia to moderne like Atatürk modernized Turkey.

Saudi-Arabia has no laws the Judge decides on the basis of Quran
#15305381
:roll: I was not comparing the two of them(male to female) so you are only appealing to emotion, @Skynet. It's not an argument for anything. Fake outage. :O

The claims that male circumcision does anything significant are untrue.
#15305442
Skynet wrote:@Godstud you can never ceap it clean and it smells like fish.
This is like the idiots who say a woman's vagina smells like fish. Many cultures in the world do not use circumcision. Over 1/2 the world doesn't do it. How your penis smells depends on how clean you are and that's all there is to it. Stop being foolish, please. It does you a disservice.

When the only thing women know is an uncircumcised penis, then that's what they will prefer. No big mystery there. Where was this idiotic opinion poll taken?

Skynet wrote:But Masturbation is much easier if you are not circumsised
How the fuck would you know? :lol: Have you wanked off a few uncircumcised men in order to gain this insight?

Remaining the way you were made is nothing bad. Your stupid arguments that have no basis in reality. We don't need to surgically affect ANY genitalia unless there is an actual medical problem. Period.
#15305946
@Skynet I mentioned them already, and the amount of benefits are insignificant. There are also
Circumcision before an age of consent is not a desirable health-promotion strategy, given more effective, and less ethically problematic, alternatives.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4364150/

Early-circumcised men reported lower attachment security and lower emotional stability while no differences in empathy or trust were found. Early circumcision was also associated with stronger sexual drive and less restricted socio-sexuality along with higher perceived stress and sensation seeking.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7702013/

Cleanliness and hygiene are factors, too, but I am sure you are ignoring the fact that the majority of the world is UNcircumcized.
#15305965
Godstud wrote:This is like the idiots who say a woman's vagina smells like fish. Many cultures in the world do not use circumcision. Over 1/2 the world doesn't do it. How your penis smells depends on how clean you are and that's all there is to it. Stop being foolish, please. It does you a disservice.

When the only thing women know is an uncircumcised penis, then that's what they will prefer. No big mystery there. Where was this idiotic opinion poll taken?

How the fuck would you know? :lol: Have you wanked off a few uncircumcised men in order to gain this insight?

Remaining the way you were made is nothing bad. Your stupid arguments that have no basis in reality. We don't need to surgically affect ANY genitalia unless there is an actual medical problem. Period.


I agree with you on this one. Lol.

I never wanted my son to be circumcised. No snipping at all allowed. It hurts the baby for no real valid reason.

And how to keep it clean? Soap and water and taking daily showers. Baby wipes too. They now have new kind of underwear for men that separate the testicles from the penis and that keeps it not only not as sweaty down there but better smelling and more comfort. No need to put powder on the testes. In the heat and humidity it keeps that comfortable.

I also bought my son a lotion made of bee honey that is very hydrating and hypoallergenic. He can apply it after the shower and it keeps everything comfortable.

No need to circumcise anything.

And women do not really prefer this man or that man who cuts it or not. He better know how to USE it correctly and with some real consideration for the woman involved. Hee hee.

Men. And their penises. A big subject. Haha. :D
#15305979
@Tainari88 I live in Thailand where 99% of the population will probably never get circumcised. I doubt very much that my son will be circumcised and I'd have him avoid it as much as getting a tattoo. It'll be something he can do as an adult, when he has a choice.

The evidence for having a circumcision is BS. It's pushed by the medical system that makes money off it. USA it costs between $800 to $3000. The medical benefits of it are insignificant and the medical studies done, indicate that. They also indicate that it might do some damage, as well.

People are not born circumcised, so...
#15305990
Godstud wrote:@Tainari88 I live in Thailand where 99% of the population will probably never get circumcised. I doubt very much that my son will be circumcised and I'd have him avoid it as much as getting a tattoo. It'll be something he can do as an adult, when he has a choice.

The evidence for having a circumcision is BS. It's pushed by the medical system that makes money off it. USA it costs between $800 to $3000. The medical benefits of it are insignificant and the medical studies done, indicate that. They also indicate that it might do some damage, as well.

People are not born circumcised, so...


Have you inspected those Thai penises to see if they are uncircumcised? I do not think so.

I have found the underwear that is supposed to keep you more comfortable.

Here it is.

https://www.temu.com/ul/kuiper/un9.html ... 1FEALw_wcB

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