[Efrem Da King]

Well I say the wall is a bad idea, my israeli uncle drove past it the other day, and said it made him sick. He said it felt like a prison but you don't know whos in it and who isn't.

It does appear that most leftwing people are anti israel, and I would say that it is because they are idiots, but thats not being fair. There are some pro israel lefties, but they are few and far between.

Of interest is comparing palestine with chechniya.

[naked_turk]

It does appear that most leftwing people are anti israel

Maybe thats because Socialism is right and the creation/existance of Israel was/is wrong?

[naked_turk]

And how does that work out my oh so brain washed friend?

Claiming to deserve to live on *Palestinian* land more than the Palestinians themselves, in my opinion at least, is RACIST. Taking all of good West Bank and Gaza strip land(illegally acquired, of course) for Israeli settlements and leaving Palestinians with only barren desert is RACIST. The very fact that the "legitimate" borders of Israel (set up by the UN in its more ignorant days) are on the most desirable areas of Palestine is RACIST. The needless and unprovoked killing of random Palestinian women and children by the IDF is RACIST. Allowing and aiding a MASSACRE of Palestinian innocents by arming, planning, and supporting a Christian militia is RACIST. I could go on forever... but the truth hurts, and I know that, so I'll be considerate and stop here.

[ihavenoname]

And how does that work out my oh so brain washed friend?

Claiming to deserve to live on *Palestinian* land more than the Palestinians themselves, in my opinion at least, is RACIST. Taking all of good West Bank and Gaza strip land(illegally acquired, of course) for Israeli settlements and leaving Palestinians with only barren desert is RACIST. The very fact that the "legitimate" borders of Israel (set up by the UN in its more ignorant days) are on the most desirable areas of Palestine is RACIST. The needless and unprovoked killing of random Palestinian women and children by the IDF is RACIST. Allowing and aiding a MASSACRE of Palestinian innocents by arming, planning, and supporting a Christian militia is RACIST. I could go on forever... but the truth hurts, and I know that, so I'll be considerate and stop here.

Calling for the genocide of Jews is Racist as well you brainwashed idiot.
- and guess who does that?

[naked_turk]

Calling for the genocide of Jews is Racist as well you brainwashed idiot.
- and guess who does that?

Care to inform me?
and "Brainwashed idiot"? thats uncalled for... I thought I made it clear which side was the "brainwashed idiot" one.

[Efrem Da King]

Yeah yours, cause your comments clearly indicate is you!

OH how about arafat and all the accompanying terrorist organizations hamas, Isalmic Jihad, PLO as well as syria, iran, egyt and of course saddam era iraq. NOt to mention most of europe.

[naked_turk]

Yeah yours, cause your comments clearly indicate is you!

OH how about arafat and all the accompanying terrorist organizations hamas, Isalmic Jihad, PLO as well as syria, iran, egyt and of course saddam era iraq. NOt to mention most of europe.

So anyone that doesn't like Israelis killing innocent people and conducting acts that would otherwise be known as genocide is a terrorist? As far as I and 90% of non-americans(otherwise known as anti-Israeli terrorists ofcourse) know, Arafat is not/never was a terrorist. He is a patriot. He fought for his people. Unfortunately the Israelis have now neutered him of any power to resist occupation or to prevent rogue attacks on Israel.

The PLO you mention is not an "accompanying terrorist organization," but is the organization which Arafat is the leader of. Now as for Hamas and Islamic Jihad, they are in no way connected to Arafat and the attacks that they carry out I would agree are almost as bad as IDF attacks on Palestinians. Stop attacking innocent people you stole land from, and maybe they'll stop attacking you. Just the fact that you're sitting on their ancestoral land is reason enough for most of the world to support the cause of the Palestinians.

And... The images of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Egypt and Europe are definitely grossly distorted in your mind... They are "terrorist organizations" in league with Arafat trying to destroy Israel? Oh I get it... haha, I almost forgot! How stupid was I! Everybody knows every non-American/non-jew is a terrorist!

[naked_turk]

You getting so personal is making me laugh too ! It proves my post was effective in showing you the truth you so badly hated to see, no?

[Deicidus]

Arafat was a ``terrorist``. His moves and tactics were different before but the goal was the same, incite fear in the Israeli population so that they wouldnt fight his ideas.

But that not the point. Not because a people has a bad representant justify the extermination of the people. If it was so, we would have to first start with the US as bad represantant of its people.

The problem is that you have on one side people seeing Israeli civilians as cannon fodder and on the other side, you have people seing Palestinian civilian casualties as a simple statistic. Murderers on one side and genocidal militarists on the other. Hard to choose.

What I hate the most is the occidental media that keeps saying that ``terrorists`` only blow themselves up for Allah or just for the fun of killing jews. I dont deny the fact that a lot of them are, but those who arent, who dont fight for a fucking god or for a crooked ``goverment``, are simply left out or put in the bunch with the others.

As for the wall, the new extension of the ``security line`` will cut more than 178 000 civilians homes from their schools, hospitals and workplace. The only work they have left is building the fucking wall themselves. I hardly think this can bring more ``friends`` on Israel side. This ``security line`` just wont work. suicide teams are already in Israel, waiting for orders. Others will just come from the Syrian, Egyptian or Lebanon border. Things will just go back to what things were at the first Intifada, where the entire population rose to arms agaisnt Israel instead of a majority who yells and a minority who acts.

[naked_turk]

On the contrary, I would call Arafat a freedom fighter. He is no more a terrorist than any other leader of a legitimate military force.

[smashthestate]

There is a popular saying...

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

However, the inverse is also very true...

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Just a thought...

[Deicidus]

The ultimate goal of Arafat is not the liberation of his people. What he really wants is him to be the savior of his people. He's another opportunistic for power and glory that took a noble cause and attached his name all around it. I support the palestinian people and their cause, not Arafat and his friends who took advantage of his people's dispair.

[ihavenoname]

Arafat is Eygptian. He is not even "palestinian"

[Deicidus]

I know, he was born in Cairo, so what. He's their representant, thats what I meant by ``his`` people.

[naked_turk]

God naked turk is such a dumb twit.

Arafat was never a terrorist, god what a moron.

Yea I guess I must be since I'm not jewish.

Now as for the rest of you, no Arafat is not a Terrorist. Calling him an opportunist is highly disrespectful, him being a man who dedicated his life to this cause. What you do not understand is that Arabs all feel very strongly towards Palestine. They see other Arabs as their brothers. So just because Arafat was born in Egypt doesn't make him an "opportunist." The man put his life on the line to save his people. There was always a constant danger of him being assassinated by Israel. If he was just hungry for power I doubt he would have put his life in such great danger. And what has he gotten from spending his entire life to saving the Palestinians? Constant insults from Bush and ignorant people who don't know what they're talking about. He faces constant death threats from Sharon and is under siege by the IDF half the time. He is a prisoner to Israel who has tied his hands and demands that he "reign in terror."

As for the people who say give palestinians a new leader... well if we do we're going to have a pro-israel "representative" of the palestinians who is going to practically give Palestine to Israel. And that, is NOT a going to make the Palestinians happy. You want more "terror", then go ahead an try this option.

[Freedom]

Anyway...many of the leading Zionists and Zionists thinkers had Socialist-esque ideas on how to run a country...the term "Right Wing Zionist" is a little weird, seeing as Zionism never had a focused economic agenda in mind and it was a collective of many different groups of Jews seeking an end to persecution they endured. Many of the founders of the Jewish states were in fact socialist...i dunno if this is relevant as the topic has gone onto a lotta different things...but whatever...

[Efrem Da King]

Yeah thats the ironic thing, most zionist are leftwing, but its the left that are brain washed to hate all jews. Ever since that policy came in, there are fewer left wing jews because it would mean wishing your own people to die out.

[ihavenoname]

but its the left that are brain washed to hate all jews. Ever since that policy came in, there are fewer left wing jews because it would mean wishing your own people to die out.

I dont think i'd go that far. Jews are historically liberal in tendency and policy. I think Bush listens to his lobbies real well.

[CasX]

Yeah thats the ironic thing, most zionist are leftwing, but its the left that are brain washed to hate all jews. Ever since that policy came in, there are fewer left wing jews because it would mean wishing your own people to die out.

You are absolutely right.

Every left winger wants all Jews to die and Israel to be crushed into small grains of sand.

These are simple truths.

I am also a yeti.

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Israel elected Sharon, how do you figure that most Zionists are left wing?