[danholo]

Today's Israel is an active colony/military base with a Jewish Homeland theme. And no one forgets its military function, even with Hollywood's constant theme-park advertising.

Today's Israel is a country filled with hippies, racists, scumbags, swindlers, religious people, atheists, agnostics, sports-fanatics, car tuners, poets, writers, philosophers, scientists, drug addicts you name it. People aren't really into "military" over there, even though everybody knows how to use a weapon. You don't know what Israel is. It is a country. Visit the place, you might like it.

[QatzelOk]

It is a country. Visit the place, you might like it.

Danholo, I might like it because it is rich like Canada.

I might hate it if I was living in a refugee camp with my family.

[Donna]

You'd probably hate it if you were born into an Arab family as a homosexual.

[keso]

You'd probably hate it if you were born into an Arab family as a homosexual.

You've got a point, their life would be a bitch, compared to the life of being born into a fundamentalist Christian family as a homosexual.

[QatzelOk]

You'd probably hate it if you were born into an Arab family as a homosexual.

Toss me some gay Arabs and let me find out for myself where hate or love resides.

It's for world peace and stuff.

[keso]

For the umpteenth time, if the arabs did not initiate the '48 war, then there would not have been arab refugees.

If Saddam hadn't initiated 9/11, there'd have been no Iraq War.

Any other Non Sequiturs that you'd like to share?

[QatzelOk]

simply here to troll.

So, where would all the displaced Palestinians move to in your breathless plan for a new map of the earth's peoples?

Since anyone can be diasporad at any moment with Modern arms, feel free to displace virtually any supposed "people" on the planet to fulfil your own personal dream.

[Maas]

QatzelOk:
Earl is thinking about "eradicating the cancer" in an other threat of the middle east section. Maybe he'll think about buying some cheap second hand stuff in Poland, ey?

[keso]

Earl is thinking about "eradicating the cancer" in an other threat of the middle east section. Maybe he'll think about buying some cheap second hand stuff in Poland, ey?

Do you think that would be his final solution?

[QatzelOk]

a war they didnt start?

Invading another people's land is the most sincere declaration of war you can make.

And Israelis are responsible for Palestinian refugees for the same reasons that Europeans were responsible for the Jewish refugees after WW2.

why is there a special definition given to these non-unique arab muslim refugees by the UN...

This "question" is just trolling.

[Ter]

QatzelOK said:

Invading another people's land is the most sincere declaration of war you can make.

So the Jews have "invaded" the land? I thought there was a UN resolution allowing them to live there. The 1948 war was declared and started by Abdel Gammel Nasser and company to drive the Jews out once and for all, etc, etc. The Arabs lost that war and Israel survived.

People, we are going round in circles. Not only in this thread, but in all threads with Israel as the subject. It seems to me that nobody is ever going to change their mind on this issue (Israel's right to exist, whatever nuances posters like to point out). The hatred and bigotry run too deep.

Ter

[danholo]

Dude... You're intention is nice but you make yourself look like a fool. Nasser became the leader of Egypt in 1956, 7 years after the War of Independence ended. He was only a military commander at the time of that war.

[Ter]

Danholo said:

Dude... You're intention is nice but you make yourself look like a fool. Nasser became the leader of Egypt in 1956, 7 years after the War of Independence ended. He was only a military commander at the time of that war.

I stand corrected.

Ter
PS. I hope there are categories of fools and that you didn't mean me to be a fool of the Noelnada kind

[sploop!]

What really happened...

1876-1877
First Palestinian deputies from Jerusalem attend the first Ottoman parliament.
1878
First Zionist settlement (Petach Tiqva) established under the guise of agricultural community.
1882-1903
First wave of Zionists (25000 strong) enters Palestine as illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe.
1882
French Baron E. de Rothschild starts backing Zionists activities in Palestine financially.
1887-1888 Ottomans divide Palestine into three districts: Jerusalem (follows Istanbul) , Akka and Nablus (follow the 'wilaya' of Beirut).
1896
Theodor Hertzl, a journalist from an Austro-Hungarian origin published Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State) advocating the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine or elsewhere.
1896
JCA (Jewish Colonization Association) starts aiding Zionist settlements in Palestine.
1897
First Zionist congress in Switzerland issues the Basle Program "calling for a home for the Jewish people in Palestine" and establishes the WZO (World Zionist Organization to that end.
1901
JNF (Jewish National Fund) set up by the 5th Zionist congress to acquire land (in Palestine) and 'make it Jewish'.
1904-1914
Second wave (around 40000 strong) of Zionist illegal immigrants arrive in Palestine and increase the Jewish percentage to 6% of the total population.
1909
First Zionist Kibbutz (collective farm), establishment of Tel Aviv north of Yaafa.
1914
World War I starts.
Note: what follows is translation from the Arabic version of the book.
1916
- January: Hussein-McMahon talks regarding steps leading to Arab countries/provinces' independence from the Ottoman empire.
- May: The signing of the Sykes-Picot agreement dividing Arab countries/provinces between Britain and France!
- June: Sharif Hussein declares independence from Ottoman Empire and the start of Arab revolt against Istanbul.
1917
- November: The Balfour declaration - UK foreign minister declares support towards establishing a Jewish state in Palestine.
1918
- September: British forces, led by Gen. Allenby, occupy Palestine
- October: World War I ends.
1919
- Jan-Feb: first Palestinian National Conference in Jerusalem rejects Balfour declaration and calls (with letters to the Paris peace conference) for independence.
- August: Paris peace conference sends investigation committee to the Near East. UK and France did not participate. Committee recommends modification of Balfour ideas.
1919- 1923
- Third wave of Zionist-Jewish immigrants (around 35000) raising their percentage in Palestine to 12%, with land ownership at 3%.
1920
- April: disturbances start in Palestine. Five Jewish people killed and 200 injured. UK investigates and attributes causes to broken promises and fears of new waves of immigrants.
- April: Peace conference higher council in San Rimo places Palestine under British mandate
- May: British occupation prevents the second Palestinian National Council (PNC) from convening
- July: Sir H. Samuel (British Jew) opens British civil administration in Palestine.
- December: third PNC convenes in Haifa, elects executive committee that steers Palestinian political movement till 1935
1921
- March: formation of the Haganah, Jewish underground terror organization
- May: Disturbances in Haifa protesting Zionist waves of immigration leading, among casualties, to 46 Jewish immigrants. The British investigate, found as before.
- May: Haj Amin al-Husseini appointed a mufti for Jerusalem
- May-June: fourth PNC convenes in Jerusalem, sends a mission to London to explain position
1922
- June: British minister for colonies (W. Churchill) publishes the white paper excluding East of Jordan river from the Balfour declaration and calls for organizing Zionist immigration according to economic capacity of Palestine.
- July: League of Nations approves British mandate over Palestine
- August: 5th PNC approves economic boycott of the Zionists.
- October: 1st British census in Palestine found total population to be 757182 , 78% of whom were Muslim Arabs, 9.6 Christian Arabs and 11 % Jewish (mainly new immigrants)
1923
- September: British mandate officially begins
1924-1928
4th wave of Zionist immigrants (67000) arrives (50% of whom were from Polonia). This increases Jewish percentage to 16%, with land ownership up to 4.2 % in 1928).
1925
- Vladimir Jabutinsky's Zionist party calls for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine and east of the River Jordan. Stresses the military aspects of Zionism.
- October: 6th PNC convenes in haifa
1928
- June: 7th PNC convenes in Jerusalem
1929
- August: clashes over the Western (Alburaq) Wall i Jerusalem. Clashes led to 116 killed and 232 wounded among Palestinians (mainly by British fire) and 133 dead and 339 wounded among the Jewish side.
- October: General Palestinian Conference convenes in Jerusalem to discuss the situation around the Western (Alburaq) Wall
1929-1939
5th Zionist immigration wave brings 250000 immigrants raising their percentage to 30% and their land ownership to 5.7 %.
1930
- January: League of Nations forms an international committee to investigate the legal situation over the Jerusalem Wall.
- March: the British Shaw committee releases findings in the 1929 clashes.
- October: The Hope-Simpson report on immigration finds no enough resources for Zionist waves of immigration. UK colonies' minister issues a white paper incorporating findings of Shaw and H-S.
1931
- Irgon, another Jewish terrorist organization, formed by Zionist extremists and those who split from Haganah. Led by Vladimir Jabutinsky.
- February: British PM, R MacDonald, retracts from the white paper of October 1930, in a letter to H. Weissman, the Zionist leader.
- November: 2nd British census in Palestine finds 1,035,154 people. 73% Muslim Arabs, 8.6% Christian Arabs and 16.9% Jewish (mainly immigrants).
- December: L French, UK development director, publishes a report about Palestinian Arabs who lost their land thanks to Zionist settlements.
1933
-UK foreign minister issues a report concerning the need to re-settle Palestinian farmers who were expelled from their lands in favor of Zionist immigrants

source

What does this look like to you?

[QatzelOk]

I thought there was a UN resolution allowing them to live there.

Ben Gurion and a pile of guns created Israel, not a UN resolution.

The 1948 war was declared and started by Abdel Gammel Nasser and company to drive the Jews out once and for all, etc, etc

That defensive war against Israel was an anti-Imperialist defencive war to defend Palestine from being ethnic cleansed by invading Jewish colonists from Europe.

The Jews won because they had Western arms on their side, and Western arms also owned most of the Arab governments of the time. When you talk about British colony Israel beating other colinial regimes, you are talking about a rigged geopolitical game where all the players are - in reality - dancing to the same Imperial drum. Israel "won" that war because that's what the superpowers wanted to happen. There was very little agency on the part of the Arab speaking populations.

It's like the whole world has to turn into militaristic Nazis to defend themselves against invaders. That is the message of the "creation" of the fake Israel.

[danholo]

The Jews won because they had Western arms on their side

Are you talking about the Czechoslovakian army surplus, bullets made out of lipstick shells or that dang loud but defective piece of artillery?

That defensive war against Israel was an anti-Imperialist defencive war to defend Palestine from being ethnic cleansed by invading Jewish colonists from Europe.

Which imperialists and what Empire?

It's like the whole world has to turn into militaristic Nazis to defend themselves against invaders. That is the message of the "creation" of the fake Israel.

It's more like you have no idea what really was going on... Israel was defending itself while Arabs were more interested in defending their own pride. The Palestinians got the shaft from everybody. Nobody was looking out for their backs.

What does this look like to you?

A list of "facts".

[Maas]

It's more like you have no idea what really was going on... Israel was defending itself while Arabs were more interested in defending their own pride. The Palestinians got the shaft from everybody. Nobody was looking out for their backs.

oh realy? what is your source?
As far as I know they attacked Israel so Palestinians could keep the land they owned. Which is not the case now, since Israel won.

[QatzelOk]

How are the Euro Jews taking over Palestine any different than the Saudi Taliban taking over Afghanistan?

Religious zealots from another place trying to create a magic kingdom based (loosely) on a text.

[danholo]

oh realy? what is your source?

The total and utter disregard of the Palestinian people by their Arab brethren?

As far as I know they attacked Israel so Palestinians could keep the land they owned. Which is not the case now, since Israel won.

Well, as far as I know, I only saw more powerful Arab states clamoring for more land i.e. territorial expansion. Jordan annexed the West Bank into itself after it conquered it. So much for the "Palestinian" state. Also, IIRC, Nasser requested, from an pan-Arab point of view, a land bridge in the form of the Negev as a condition for peace with Israel. Israel rejected it.

How are the Euro Jews taking over Palestine any different than the Saudi Taliban taking over Afghanistan?

Saudis are not Afghani. Jews only looked to build a homeland and the most suitable place for them was the "homeland". Euro Jews were fervently secular and even socialist. Secondly, it doesn't matter where the Jew comes from. A Jew is a Jew.

Religious zealots from another place trying to create a magic kingdom based (loosely) on a text.

I don't know what magic kingdom you are talking about. Israel's as defective as any other country.

[Maas]

oh realy? what is your source?

The total and utter disregard of the Palestinian people by their Arab brethren?

this is not a source

Jordan annexed the West Bank into itself after it conquered it. So much for the "Palestinian" state.

There was no Jordan before