[Kaspar]

@Raptor

Ok, I completely understand and even agree with you then.

I thought you were directly responding to the questions in the OP.

But just to note, yes their are hate crimes committed against whites, but this is something every ethnicity in South Africa faces. I definitely wouldn't consider it an epidemic or major trend though.

[Alchemy]

politburo player Ranted

This graph highlights the reality of what happened to the lifestyles of people from Southern Africa when whites were booted from power. The early 90's seem to be a very telling time period. It seems like the resurgence of native cultures and traditions in post-white Southern Africa has actually helped the spread of AIDS. Could it be that, having replaced the white status quo, the onset of native power propagated more sexually promiscuous lifestyles among native Africans? I think so...

Boy, you really have no clue what you are talking about do you? The Apartheid regime hid the underlying problem! Whites served by the state health services enjoyed a doctor patient ratio of 1:330 and a nurse patient ratio 700% better than blacks. This is why the life expectancy of Blacks was 58.9 years versus Whites 73.2 years. Now if you are wondering what relevance this has on the debate, Aids surfaced in South Africa in the early 80's, during apartheid! It was ignored because it served the regimes cause at the time. The black poor only had access to the government sponsored public health sector which couldn’t give a damn about treating HIV let alone attempting to prevent AIDS. The point that you are alluding to "native propagated promiscuity" is non sequitur and goes a long way in amplifying your prejudice and bias! I am sure that you are Ixa re-incarnated...

[politburo player]

The Apartheid regime hid the underlying problem! Whites served by the state health services enjoyed a doctor patient ratio of 1:330 and a nurse patient ratio 700% better than blacks. This is why the life expectancy of Blacks was 58.9 years versus Whites 73.2 years.

So whites were the problem? That is what you are saying. What about the fact that many blacks were rooted in tradition and preferred witch doctors over the S.A. healthcare system, and still do?

Now if you are wondering what relevance this has on the debate, Aids surfaced in South Africa in the early 80's, during apartheid! It was ignored because it served the regimes cause at the time. The black poor only had access to the government sponsored public health sector which couldn’t give a damn about treating HIV let alone attempting to prevent AIDS.

I don't think you can blame any government for being indolent when AIDS first came about. Nobody, and I mean nobody, knew what it was or how to prevent it. However, your new government's laxadaisical response to such a known threat speaks volumes about its incompetence.

The point that you are alluding to "native propagated promiscuity" is non sequitur and goes a long way in amplifying your prejudice and bias! I am sure that you are Ixa re-incarnated...

The fact that your poltically correct brain rejects phrases like 'native promiscuity' does not make it any less of a reality. There is no other way AIDS could spread so fast.

[Alchemy]

So whites were the problem? That is what you are saying. What about the fact that many blacks were rooted in tradition and preferred witch doctors over the S.A. healthcare system, and still do?

You are deluded! The apartheid regime was responsible! People do not go to Sangomas when they are at deaths door. They go to doctors. This also does not change the fact that the Apartheid regime ignored the AIDS pandemic!

I don't think you can blame any government for being indolent when AIDS first came about. Nobody, and I mean nobody, knew what it was or how to prevent it. However, your new government's laxadaisical response to such a known threat speaks volumes about its incompetence.

I do not support the ANC and do not condone their previous attitudes on AIDS but the fact that you seem oblivious that the ANC only took power in 1994, a mere 16 years ago is hilarious. HIV education and awareness took place in white schools in the 1980's in South Africa. Condoms were distributed to whites by the government. Whites had disease monitoring systems. The Antiviral zidovudine was only made available to whites to fight AIDS. None of these benefits were afforded to blacks. You really are quite clueless aren’t you?

The fact that your poltically correct brain rejects phrases like 'native promiscuity' does not make it any less of a reality. There is no other way AIDS could spread so fast.

My but you are clueless aren’t you! Correlation does not imply causation! A person can be infected with aids with their first unprotected sexual encounter. It does not mean that a person is neccesarily promiscuous.

Another study that looked at promiscuity based on total number of sex partners found that Austrian men were the most promiscuous males in the world with 29.3 sexual partners on average, while New Zealand women were the most promiscuous females in the world with an average of 20.4 sexual partners. New Zealand was the only country studied where women averaged a higher number of sex partners than the men. [15]

One study[16] found that people from developed Western countries were more promiscuous than people from developing countries in general, while the rate of STDs was higher in developing countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promiscuity

Consider yourself owned!

[politburo player]

You love to make excuses for people, don't you? I don't care what self loathing artist enclave in South Africa you claim to be a part of, but your excuse making attitude towards your own country will only further lead to its demise. Your last post was littered with examples of you refusing to do the math. I laid it out plain and simple for you... yet you refuse to do simple arithmetic like 1+1=2, connecting the dots between people's behavior, and other feats of logic that any kindergartner would have mastered.

Condoms were distributed to whites by the government.

No, whites probably bought condoms from wherever they sold condoms. Not everything is a handout from a clinic, even you should know that. I can't wait to hear the excuses you will make for people when your World Cup flops because of crime and lack of attendance. S.A. is a textbook example of what happens when a country is driven by an oligarchy of maniacal guerrillas. Like a kid who took his grandparents Cadillac for a ride.

[Okonkwo]

Moderation note: Let's keep it civil here, am I being clear enough? No one here is a "kindergartner" (sic), it is not necessary to call your opponent "clueless" or "owned". If you cannot conduct this debate in an orderly way I will deem it necessary to take the appropriate action to end it.

[Alchemy]

You love to make excuses for people, don't you? I don't care what self loathing artist enclave in South Africa you claim to be a part of, but your excuse making attitude towards your own country will only further lead to its demise. Your last post was littered with examples of you refusing to do the math. I laid it out plain and simple for you... yet you refuse to do simple arithmetic like 1+1=2, connecting the dots between people's behavior, and other feats of logic that any kindergartner would have mastered.

Firstly:

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other (though it does not remove the fact that correlation can still be a hint, whether powerful or otherwise[1][2]). The opposite belief, correlation proves causation, is a logical fallacy by which two events that occur together are claimed to have a cause-and-effect relationship. The fallacy is also known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin for "with this, therefore because of this") and false cause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlatio ... _causation

See. What you are implying is a logical fallacy! It is not due to me having a kindergarten grasp of logic but it is is because your are in fact parading playground logic from an extremely laymen perspective as being authoritive. Capish? Secondly.

Westerners 'are more promiscuous'
People in western countries are more promiscuous, the study says
People in western countries tend to have more sexual partners than those in the developing world, a study says.

Monogamy is dominant across the world, but multiple partners are more common in rich countries, according to the study published in the Lancet.

This was despite developing countries having higher rates of sexually transmitted infections and HIV.

London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine researchers gathered data from 59 countries for the study.

They said factors such as poverty and mobility had more of a role in sexually transmitted infections than promiscuity had.

But the team added that the findings showed teenagers were not having sex earlier, contrary to popular beliefs.


Graph showing number of sexual partners by age group

Have Your Say: Why is the west more promiscuous?

The study said there had been no universal trend towards earlier sexual intercourse over the past three decades.

Almost everywhere, sexual activity began for most men and women between 15 and 19 years of age, with men tending to start earlier.

In the UK the average age for men was 16.5 and for women 17.5.

Researchers said most people reported only having one sexual partner in the last year.

However, those reporting multiple partners were much higher in developed countries - up to a third of under 25s in some areas - whereas only a small percentage in Africa reported the same.

And among singletons, westerners were more sexually active as well.

Two thirds of men and women without a partner in African countries reported they had had sex recently, compared to three quarters of those in developed countries.

Surprising

The researchers said these findings were surprising, as higher rates of STIs were reported in developing countries.

Graph showing number of sexual partners by age group

But the report's author, Professor Kaye Wellings, said: "This suggests social factors such as poverty, mobility and gender equality may be a stronger factor in sexual ill-health than promiscuity."

And she added that the results showed flexible approaches to tackling public health had to be adopted.

"Men and women have sex for different reasons and in different ways in different settings," she said.

"This diversity needs to be respected in a range of approaches tailored to whole societies, and to particular groups and individuals within them.

"The selection of public-health messages needs to be guided by epidemiological evidence rather than by myths and moral stances."

A spokeswoman for Brook, the sexual health charity for young people, added: "There is still much to be done to improve sexual health in this country.

"But the situation here does not compare to that of many developing countries where it can be very difficult to get condoms and to insist on their use, for a range of economic and cultural reasons."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6101970.stm

Still dont get it? Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

No, whites probably bought condoms from wherever they sold condoms. Not everything is a handout from a clinic, even you should know that. I can't wait to hear the excuses you will make for people when your World Cup flops because of crime and lack of attendance. S.A. is a textbook example of what happens when a country is driven by an oligarchy of maniacal guerrillas. Like a kid who took his grandparents Cadillac for a ride.

You have no point! Your arguments are based soley on heresay and misinformed propoganda and extreme prejudice.

[politburo player]

I don't trust that BBC hogwash, they always have the same liberal, apologist, pseudo researchers who scan the news for any good reason to blame the world's troubles on the West. That's why you always see their hippie journalists dancing around mud huts and celebrating with the natives. Like we have something to learn from extinct cultures... I trust Darwin. He's always right!

[Alchemy]

I don't trust that BBC hogwash, they always have the same liberal, apologist, pseudo researchers who scan the news for any good reason to blame the world's troubles on the West. That's why you always see their hippie journalists dancing around mud huts and celebrating with the natives. Like we have something to learn from extinct cultures... I trust Darwin. He's always right!

Boy. This is truly painful. The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine is not a pseudo researcher.

In 2008, the UK Research Assessment Exercise (RAE) confirmed the School as a world leading centre for research. The School has been ranked one of the top three research institutions in the country in the Times Higher Education Table of Excellence, which is based on the 2008 Research Assessment Exercise. The School made submissions to three of the RAE's sub-panels, Infection and Immunology, Epidemiology and Public Health, and Health Services Research. It was among the highest ranked institutions in all three areas, with between 65% and 80% of its research assessed as world leading or internationally excellent. The results indicate that in both Epidemiology and Public Health and Health Services Research the School has the largest concentration of world leading research in the UK. In Epidemiology and Public Health, 35% of the School's research activity was assessed as 4 (world leading), with a further 35% rated as 3 (internationally excellent). This result is particularly impressive in light of the fact that the School entered by far the highest number of staff of any UK institution (135.37), more than double the number entered by any other institution. The School also performed outstandingly in Health Services Research and in Infection and Immunology. In Health Services Research, 30% of its research activity received a 4* rating, and a further 35% was rated as 3. In Infection and Immunology, 80% of research activity was rated 3 or 4[1][2].

In 2001 the School achieved high scores of 5 in all areas assessed.

In 2003, the School underwent an institutional audit by the Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education (QAA) and was awarded the highest grade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Sch ... l_Medicine

Yes, that just happened Politburo...

I trust Darwin. He's always right!

[Expression of derision]

[politburo player]

You are trying to win this argument based on a verbal technicality. If you strip down the word "promiscuous" and lace it into google searches enough, you'll find something to suit your point of view.

The country with the highest rate of AIDS, a sexually transmitted disease, and you're saying that this high prevelence has nothing to do with promiscuity?

Then why does it always bite those who are promiscuous. It's like sex-ed 101, middle school style. The more you have sex with other partners, the greater chance you have of contracting an STD, including AIDS. There are few explanations for the prevelence of AIDS in South Africa other than a lot of promiscuity, lots of rape, bloody sex, or tribal traditions that involve blood transfer of some sort. If you did start a list of other, possible explanations, the list would start with there being a lot of dumb people in South Africa who don't care about modern methods of disease prevention. It's either one or the other.

[Alchemy]

You are trying to win this argument based on a verbal technicality. If you strip down the word "promiscuous" and lace it into google searches enough, you'll find something to suit your point of view.

Umm no. I’m not trying to win anything, nor am I basing my argument on a verbal technicality. I am basing my argument on your myopic belief that blacks are inherently promiscuous and hold the monopoly on promiscuous behaviour!

The country with the highest rate of AIDS, a sexually transmitted disease, and you're saying that this high prevelence has nothing to do with promiscuity? Then why does it always bite those who are promiscuous. It's like sex-ed 101, middle school style. The more you have sex with other partners, the greater chance you have of contracting an STD, including AIDS. There are few explanations for the prevelence of AIDS in South Africa other than a lot of promiscuity, lots of rape, bloody sex, or tribal traditions that involve blood transfer of some sort. If you did start a list of other, possible explanations, the list would start with there being a lot of dumb people in South Africa who don't care about modern methods of disease prevention. It's either one or the other.

Why do you not bother reading?

But the report's author, Professor Kaye Wellings, said: "This suggests social factors such as poverty, mobility and gender equality may be a stronger factor in sexual ill-health than promiscuity."

And she added that the results showed flexible approaches to tackling public health had to be adopted.

"Men and women have sex for different reasons and in different ways in different settings," she said.

"This diversity needs to be respected in a range of approaches tailored to whole societies, and to particular groups and individuals within them.

"The selection of public-health messages needs to be guided by epidemiological evidence rather than by myths and moral stances."

A spokeswoman for Brook, the sexual health charity for young people, added: "There is still much to be done to improve sexual health in this country.

"But the situation here does not compare to that of many developing countries where it can be very difficult to get condoms and to insist on their use, for a range of economic and cultural reasons."

Before responding with a rhetorical question which has been answered with the above take a chill pill and mull over what has just been explained to you.

[Zionist Nationalist]

I think in the future South Africa will become a third world country just like Zimbabwe. Since the Blacks took controll there they messed up everything.

[jimkerosh]

I live in South-Africa. It is a wonderful country and we are very proud of it. I am white and I live in the city. I am sure you will enjoy your stay here.

We do have crime. You will have to be careful not to be in dark alleys at night, Or on a Deserted Road, Or alone on the beach etc.

But, We have great Cities, Beaches, Shopping centers, Museums, Roads and Infrastructure. You would not be in any trouble if you look after yourself. You will enjoy our lovely nature and friendly people. SA is not only about crime. It has a lot to offer.

[justathought]

I think the upcoming World Cup will determine quite a bit for the country. This is the biggest sporting event in the entire world and the eyes of the world will all be watching South Africa. IF things go smoothly than one would think that economic advancement would in turn happen, however, if things don't than I think that it could possibly be disastrous. I am hoping that things go very smoothly because (although I have never been to South Africa, I have been to other parts of Africa) and I have heard that it is absolutely beautiful and that their is a lot to offer. I am a believer that Africa as a continent will one day come out of the basement. They need the right leaders and, like most developing countries, foreign investment. This is a fantastic opportunity for South Africa to show the world what it has. And hopefully their soccer team does well too