[Rei Murasame]

The only kingdom that later on became part of the greater Ethiopian empire, and is probably as old as that is the Axumite Empire. Bear in mind that when Menelik II carved modern Ethiopia, he incorporated the nations of Tigray, Shoa, Gojjam, Oromia, the southern nations as well as parts of Ogaden.

Ah. Does the politics of being an amalgamate ever feature strongly, or does everyone within Ethiopia see themselves as having Ethiopian identity?

[thespeaker]

Re-instating the monarchy would not solve the problems facing Ethiopia. Of course, neither would free and fair democracy - but it would hardly hurt. There's no legitimate reason the current government insists on stamping on the rights of its citizens in order to maintain power, and yet it continues. Its important to recall, though, that Halie Selassie presided over large famines (as did his successors) and mostly ignored the plight of "his" people. What matters more than title is the integrity of the leader. And more often than not, Ethiopian leaders - and African leaders in general - have not had real integrity.

[The fifth International]

Ah. Does the politics of being an amalgamate ever feature strongly, or does everyone within Ethiopia see themselves as having Ethiopian identity?

The Ethiopians have always lacked a united and strong nationalist outlook. The past three regimes seem to strongly reflect on this. Its always a rule of a certain nation within Ethiopia ( Amhara, Amhara, Tigrayan....), leaderships that give priority to hierarchical nepotism. This is one of the many reasons why Ethiopia is still under developed given the opportunities it had.

It would have been better if Ethiopia split up into individual states.

Re-instating the monarchy would not solve the problems facing Ethiopia. Of course, neither would free and fair democracy - but it would hardly hurt. There's no legitimate reason the current government insists on stamping on the rights of its citizens in order to maintain power, and yet it continues. Its important to recall, though, that Halie Selassie presided over large famines (as did his successors) and mostly ignored the plight of "his" people. What matters more than title is the integrity of the leader. And more often than not, Ethiopian leaders - and African leaders in general - have not had real integrity.

True say, alas... its a sad moment to be an African!

[Aekos]

It would have been better if Ethiopia split up into individual states.

An Eritrean would rather see a few weak states rather than a large Ethiopia? What a surprise.

[Figlio di Moros]

Agreed, Aekos. Ethiopia is one of the few areas of Africa I have respect for, or atleast their history. Restoration of the Monarchy, seperate from individual ethnicity, would provide a unifying symbol and allow for a common national vison, similar to Japan, China, SK, or the other Asian Tigers.

[Igor Antunov]

^Perhaps. Now that I think about it, the ethnic composition of ethiopia is all over the place, it may need a strong centralized government. But only if it could get one that isn't utterly corrupt.

[Figlio di Moros]

Well, corruption is an issue in any government; the question is how to best limit it? It would seem the Emporer would have the best interest of the empire in hand, whereas African dictators and democracies tend to favor tribal nepotism. One of the particular strengths of the line is the national mythos it offers, as descendant of Solomon and heirs to (ancient) Israel.

[Aekos]

One thing's for sure, the communist junta that ousted the monarchy has more than its fair share of blame for Ethiopia's problems today.

[Potemkin]

It's worth pointing out that the communist junta of the Derg was itself overthrown by another communist junta.

[Igor Antunov]

It's worth pointing out that Ethiopia was a self-made shit-hole well before the communist coups.

[ThereBeDragons]

It's also worth nothing that Ethopia was one of the most modernized African states in the first part of the twentieth century.

[Igor Antunov]

That's not saying much really.

[Potemkin]

Ras Tafari was actually a pretty good ruler up until the 1960s, when the Ethiopian economy tanked and the famines began. He appeared to be either unable or unwilling to reform the somewhat outmoded political system, and lost the confidence of his people. The rest is (rather unpleasant) history....

[Aekos]

^
So had Selassie been more proactive about reviving the economy and preventing famines, his country might have been able to hold onto Eritrea and maintain the monarchy?

[Potemkin]

I believe so, yes.

[Igor Antunov]

But how do you prevent a famine? The harvest went bad, the crops failed, the population grew at the same time, then people started starving. It would take a crystal ball and some pixie dust to reverse this natural trend in it's entirety.

[Potemkin]

Indeed. The same thing, of course, can be said about the famine in the Soviet Union in the early 1930s. The difference was that Stalin was strong enough, wily enough, and determined enough to maintain himself in power even in the face of massive popular discontent, whereas Selassie was not. I suspect his advanced age at the time had something to do with that.

[Kaspar]

Well, corruption is an issue in any government; the question is how to best limit it? It would seem the Emporer would have the best interest of the empire in hand, whereas African dictators and democracies tend to favor tribal nepotism. One of the particular strengths of the line is the national mythos it offers, as descendant of Solomon and heirs to (ancient) Israel.

There was rampant corruption in Ethiopia during Selassie's reign. And a monarchy wouldn't necessarily negate tribal nepotism. Often times ruling classes in monarchies are associated with certain ethnic groups (Normans in Medieval England, Amhara in Ethiopia) which are often times not the majority ethnic group in the nation they govern. In imperial Ethiopia, the Amhara, despite not being the majority tribal group in the nation, dominated Ethiopia's political scene and filled the ranks of the nation's upper/middle classes. Even the Amhara language, Amharic, became the official language of Ethiopia. In my opinion, this does little to unite a country as diverse as Ethiopia.

Also, the Ethiopian Monarchy is steeped in Ethiopian Orthodox tradition. The development of the monarchy and the Ethiopian church are often times intertwined. With that being said, in the 21st century there are almost just as many Muslims in Ethiopia as there are Christians, and the Christian population has been steadily decreasing in recent years. The reestablishment of the monarchy could not only help promote ethnic strife, but religious based conflict as well.

But how do you prevent a famine? The harvest went bad, the crops failed, the population grew at the same time, then people started starving. It would take a crystal ball and some pixie dust to reverse this natural trend in it's entirety.

Selassie practically ignored the famine. When the foreign media found out about the extent of the famine the emperor tried to plea ignorance, but how could anyone believe him when thousands of people were dying? Even if it was out of simple ignorance and not intentional, I think that's reason enough to give Selassie the boot.

[Aekos]

With that being said, in the 21st century there are almost just as many Muslims in Ethiopia as there are Christians, and the Christian population has been steadily decreasing in recent years.

Muslims make up about 32% of the population in Ethiopia, Christians nearly twice that. Ethiopia is a fundamentally Christian nation anyway.

[Kaspar]

By Christian I was referring to Ethiopian Orthodox, not Protestant, sorry I should've been clearer. The Protestant population in Ethiopia has been growing rapidly in recent years, while the Ethiopia Orthodox population has been greatly declining.

And the fact that Ethiopia is fundamentally a Christian nation, or fundamentally an Ethiopian Orthodox nation, is not really relevant to the discussion. Figlio was saying that a monarchy would lessen tribal nepotism in the Ethiopian government, and I was pointing out that a monarchy so connected to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in a nation that's only 40% Ethiopian Orthodox could easily result in tribal nepotism.