[noemon]

I am in agreement about complacency and do believe that if you cannot unshackle yourself, you deserve it but it's also true that Euro countries had massive advantages and that it was never a fair fight, this can be said for countries who are somewhat near to each other in tech and state organisation but Europe in the 19th CE had enormous competitive advantages making the fight very one-sided so some sympathy is deserved and earned especially for states like Ethiopia.

[Lexington]

Complacency is the real enemy

Why do you think Africans are complacent?

[Mercenary]

I am in agreement about complacency and do believe that if you cannot unshackle yourself, you deserve it but it's also true that Euro countries had massive advantages and that it was never a fair fight, this can be said for countries who are somewhat near to each other in tech and state organisation but Europe in the 19th CE had enormous competitive advantages making the fight very one-sided so some sympathy is deserved and earned especially for states like Ethiopia.

It is indeed a jaded fight, in favor of Africans. It is their politicians and aristocracy that enable the exploitation to happen.

What massive advantages? Africa does not need to become an economic superpower, which is overrated and unsustainable anyways. It just needs to reclaim its land and resources, which only they can do.

[Mercenary]

Why do you think Africans are complacent?

Why shouldn't I? It isn't like they have given me much evidence to the contrary.

[Lexington]

Why shouldn't I? It isn't like they have given me much evidence to the contrary.

Let me rephrase:

Why are Africans "complacent" in your terming?

[noemon]

It is indeed a jaded fight, in favor of Africans. It is their politicians and aristocracy that enable the exploitation to happen.

How can you say this, when one was fighting with airplanes and artillery and the other with spears? When one had a political tradition of state organisation stretching back hundreds of years managing millions of people while African tribes were managing a few hundreds sometime a couple of thousands. The fact is African geography enabled Africans to remain within older paradigms, if Europeans had this privilege they would have also remained in older paradigms, but European geography enabled them to come into contact with all other people and also compete against many people. People advance into stages only when they have to, they don't just do it, with the arrival of Europeans in Africa, Africans have been forced to leap through the ages to catch up and Europeans have done their best to ensure that they don't. The Japanese also had such issues but they are an island and they had China acting as a barrier.

[Mercenary]

Let me rephrase:

Why are Africans "complacent" in your terming?

An overwhelming sense of content, and an underwhelming show of effort.

[Mercenary]

How can you say this, when one was fighting with airplanes and artillery and the other with spears? When one had a political tradition of state organisation stretching back hundreds of years managing million of people and African tribes were managing a few hundreds sometime a couple of thousands.

Forgive me, I was not aware that neoimperialism was waged with aircraft and artillery.

If economic independence means war, then note that force economics is no longer on the side of the west. Africans are not fighting with spears. Even the poorest of African countries can mobilize a modernized force of a hundred thousand men. These massive militaries help maintain the status quo, rather than doing what is right for 'their' people. Anyway you cut it, Africans are in league with their own oppressors.

[Lexington]

An overwhelming sense of content, and an underwhelming show of effort.

And why do they feel that way?

[noemon]

Forgive me, I was not aware that neoimperialism was waged with aircraft and artillery.

Imperialism in Africa was waged with artillery, machine guns and professional armies, aircraft joined the fray as well after the 1900's when their opponents did not have any guns except for spears and swords. Their tribes never knew what hit them like in the Americas.

If economic independence means war, then note that force economics is no longer on the side of the west. Africans are not fighting with spears. Even the poorest of African countries can mobilize a modernized force of a hundred thousand men.

They can mobilise only if they are given weapons by some western patron who then takes his dues as is natural. Africans have a lot of blame for their condition because at the end of the day noone can save you but only your own self, it's true and I agree with that, but the west has always been an active enabler and it still is, you can see that in the discussion with China, whenever China tries to mingle in African affairs the West acts as if Africa is her own property because it effectively remains so.

[Mercenary]

And why do they feel that way?

Because of what I just said.....

[mikema63]

So...You say so and it is thus true?

[Lexington]

Because of what I just said.....

You really haven't. Why this:

An overwhelming sense of content, and an underwhelming show of effort.

Why are they content and underwhelming?

They just are?

[Mercenary]

Imperialism in Africa was waged with artillery, machine guns and professional armies, aircraft joined the fray as well after the 1900's when their opponents did not have any guns except for spears and swords. Their tribes never knew what hit them like in the Americas.

Okay, but this isn't 100 years ago. The kind of imperialism being waged today is with money, not with guns.

They can mobilise only if they are given weapons by some western patron who then takes his dues as is natural.

Not true. Most African countries already have their own defense industry. 1/4th of African nations manufacture their own non-licensed weapons, which isn't exactly difficult to begin with.

Making weapons is easy. There are no significant advantages in military tech or engineering that are not easily replicable with a small amount of capital (excluding naval warfare).

Africans have a lot of blame for their condition because at the end of the day noone can save you but only your own self, it's true and I agree with that, but the west has always been an active enabler and it still is, you can see that in the discussion with China, whenever China tries to mingle in African affairs the West acts as if Africa is her own property because it effectively remains so.

My point, is that change will have to start with Africans themselves. The parasitic economies of the world are not going to cease exploitation just because you ask them. Especially when 'your' own people are engaged in the exploitation.

I believe we are mostly in agreement.

[Mercenary]

Why are they content and underwhelming?

Social conformity, social conditioning, state intimidation, priorities, ect.

[Lexington]

Social conformity, social conditioning, state intimidation, priorities, ect.

Progress!

How how many countries, religions, languages, and cultures are there in Africa precisely?

I'll help you out here: there are over a billion people in Africa.

[Mercenary]

Progress!

How how many countries, religions, languages, and cultures are there in Africa precisely?

I'll help you out here: there are over a billion people in Africa.

How I love being patronized....

Mate, if you have a point then just make it already. Otherwise you are wasting my time.

[Lexington]

How I love being patronized....

Mate, if you have a point then just make it already. Otherwise you are wasting my time.

Oh, you figured it out. Now it's no fun.

The reason I'm mocking this idea is because you seem to think Africa is a thing. It isn't. The reason Botswana is relatively wealthy is different from the reason that Chad is dirt poor. The reason Senegal (which is also really poor) has had a stable democratic government is different from the reason what used to be Zaire has been convulsed by dictators and civil wars since independence. Somalia has been burned to ashes multiple times yet Namibia has a stable government around the same time since...

You assigned one history to an entire continent. A billion people don't deserve "We were just complacent."

[Mercenary]

The reason I'm mocking this idea is because you seem to think Africa is a thing. It isn't.

No shit. You act like I have never heard of a social construct before.

You assigned one history to an entire continent. A billion people don't deserve "We were just complacent."

If we treat them like a collective, as I explicitly stated in my first reply to @noemon , they are complacent.

[Mercenary]

Not true. They, if we treat Africans as a collective, could stop what is happening. They do not, therefore they should be held responsible for the state of oppression and exploitation that they live under.

Yep, you really got me @Lexington . Maybe next time.