[noemon]

Ethiopia clearly proves that Black African states and people can stand proud next to western nations, which easily dismisses the racial argument.

My view is that like in the Middle-East the effects of colonisation have not been eradicated and that is obvious because the colonial borders are still there, the borders imposed on these territories were created to reinforce divisions which have been maintained up to the present day, the Brits did that in Cyprus to the Greeks who are not only considered Europeans but they were also allies and indebted and relatively loyal friends. Think about it, if the British for example have no issue in fomenting divide and conquer policies that result directly to violence and chaotic situation to their own allies and friends and creating issues which persist to the present day despite Cyprus being in the EU and modern and all that jazz, just imagine how brutally they and the rest of the colonial powers established divide and conquer policies among people who were neither allies nor friends and at the time officially considered and treated as sub-human as well, they most likely went on power overdrive. Also many colonial companies that were given mandates to rule over African countries some of them are still in operation, having larger revenues than the countries they operate in, does anyone in here believe that this has no role whatsoever and that colonial influence has seized entirely?

[Suntzu]

Ethiopia clearly proves that Black African states and people can stand proud next to western nations, which easily dismisses the racial argument.

My view is that like in the Middle-East the effects of colonisation have not been eradicated and that is obvious because the colonial borders are still there, the borders imposed on these territories were created to reinforce divisions which have been maintained up to the present day, the Brits did that in Cyprus to the Greeks who are not only considered Europeans but they were also allies and indebted and relatively loyal friends. Think about it, if the British for example have no issue in fomenting divide and conquer policies that result directly to violence and chaotic situation to their own allies and friends and creating issues which persist to the present day despite Cyprus being in the EU and modern and all that jazz, just imagine how brutally they and the rest of the colonial powers established divide and conquer policies among people who were neither allies nor friends and at the time officially considered and treated as sub-human as well, they most likely went on power overdrive. Also many colonial companies that were given mandates to rule over African countries some of them are still in operation, having larger revenues than the countries they operate in, does anyone in here believe that this has no role whatsoever and that colonial influence has seized entirely?

Yep, Ethiopia is an African success story. Almost half the Ethiopians can read and the per capita GDP is $1,800.

[Godstud]

GDP means nothing compared to buying power. In Thailand, for instance, a really great meal can run you $2. Put that into perspective. Rating poverty by GDP has always been fucked.

[Suntzu]

About 80% of the Ethiopian are goat herders so the GDP should be figured in goats.

[Pants-of-dog]

Suntzu seems incapable of actually making an argument.

Or an intelligent rebuttal.

[anasawad]

@Suntzu
It would really depend on how you look at it.
As Godstud said its more about the buying power than the actual amount.

For example, to compare countries i know and what can you do with 1000$ in them.
In Belarus a 1000$ can get a family of 5 through the month just fine, but without much spending on luxury stuff or going out to places like clubs and cafes since those are luxuries as well.
In Lebanon, a 1000$ can get you through the month if you managed your money right but it would also be without luxuries and probably would end up in the last 10 days without a cent in your pocket.
If you want to spend money, 1 shopping trip to the market with your girl and you can kiss that 1k good bye.

In Iran, 1000$ can get a family of 5 to live with everything covered just without luxuries for 2 months and possibly 3 months depending if there are special conditions for nutrition or how old are the kids and how the money is managed.

Go to UAE, and a 1000$ would get a family of 5 through 1 week without any luxuries, and possibly 2 weeks if they eat only a couple of meals a day and without much in each meal, and they never go out other than to work.

Syria is simillar to Iran but rather than 2 months probably somewhere between 5-6 weeks as its more expensive and less subsidized than Iran.

Jordan, well, you'll be lucky if you passed a month.

And BTW, African nations are usually much cheaper. Egypt which is one of the biggest is even cheaper than all the countries above.

EDIT:

And anther thing on your comments. You are saying they're poor by default because they work with cattle, many of them atleast.

You realize thats literally one of the main trading stock in the world and its a guaranted sell and basically a money well if managed correctly right ?

[Suntzu]

Income is only one measure. The telling statistics are literacy, infant mortality, longevity and access to clean water.

[anasawad]

Dude, you're in the US. Half your population is below average in education.
You're no where near top 10 in infact mortality or health.
And your water is intentionaly not clean by your government.

Atleast there they cant fix these things in the short term.

[Truth To Power]

Since the miniscule amount of modern slavery has no significant impact on modern global economics, I doubt it has any impact on why Africa is relatively poor.

You're (surprise!) wrong. A major reason Africa is poor is that many Africans still view their fellow Africans as appropriate slave material. If people don't get the idea that other people have rights, their institutions will not support an advanced economy. Look at Saudi Arabia: they (only unofficially, of course) still engage in slavery, and although they have lots of oil money, their economy is still backward and unproductive. Almost everything is either imported or produced by foreigners living there.

[Suntzu]

Dude, you're in the US. Half your population is below average in education.
You're no where near top 10 in infact mortality or health.
And your water is intentionaly not clean by your government.

Atleast there they cant fix these things in the short term.

The U.S. Black population brings the ratings down. Factor out the Black population and the U.S. is about like European countries.

[Potemkin]

You're (surprise!) wrong. A major reason Africa is poor is that many Africans still view their fellow Africans as appropriate slave material. If people don't get the idea that other people have rights, their institutions will not support an advanced economy. Look at Saudi Arabia: they (only unofficially, of course) still engage in slavery, and although they have lots of oil money, their economy is still backward and unproductive. Almost everything is either imported or produced by foreigners living there.

For once, I agree with TTP. The Saudi economy isn't really capitalist - it's rich because it has a shit-ton of oil under all that sand (though with the price of crude as it is, that wealth may not last much longer), and its exploitation of human labour power is based on slavery rather than industrial capitalism. This has enabled it to avoid the corrosive effects of capitalism on traditional social structures and values, which Marx described so vividly in the Communist Manifesto. Saudi Arabia is a strange anomaly in the modern world - a wealthy and relatively powerful nation which still has an archaic and outmoded social and economic system. Needless to say, the friction between the archaic values of that outmoded social system and the modern world creates a great deal of mischief.

[Pants-of-dog]

The U.S. Black population brings the ratings down. Factor out the Black population and the U.S. is about like European countries.

What do you mean by this?

Hopefully, you are able to expand on this.

---------------

For once, I agree with TTP. The Saudi economy isn't really capitalist - it's rich because it has a shit-ton of oil under all that sand (though with the price of crude as it is, that wealth may not last much longer), and its exploitation of human labour power is based on slavery rather than industrial capitalism. This has enabled it to avoid the corrosive effects of capitalism on traditional social structures and values, which Marx described so vividly in the Communist Manifesto. Saudi Arabia is a strange anomaly in the modern world - a wealthy and relatively powerful nation which still has an archaic and outmoded social and economic system. Needless to say, the friction between the archaic values of that outmoded social system and the modern world creates a great deal of mischief.

This may explain why some Arab states are not impoverished, but it does not explain why most African states are.

[anasawad]

Actually the rates are horrible across the entire population. Not just black people.
Bill Maher mentions it casually.

[Suntzu]

What do you mean by this?

Hopefully, you are able to expand on this.

The infant mortality rate among African-American is more than double that of White Americans.

[Pants-of-dog]

The infant mortality rate among African-American is more than double that of White Americans.

I doubt it. Please provide evidence for this claim.

Secondly, what does that have to do with anything?

[anasawad]

Sure, and the US in overall is worst off than dozens of countries.
So in over all, it sucks. Even between whites alone, it still worse than many others.
So not much you did there.

[Suntzu]

I doubt it. Please provide evidence for this claim.

Secondly, what does that have to do with anything?

(October 2007) How one fares in the United States has been characterized by a racial division that begins at birth with disparities in health care. Inadequate health care can have a significant effect on the future social and economic path of newborns.

Despite continued improvements in the health of the African American population, black babies are still nearly 2.5 times more likely than white babies to die before reaching their first birthday. To make matters worse, recent data show rising infant mortality among blacks in some states.

And a link: http://www.prb.org/Publications/Article ... ality.aspx

I'm guessing you weren't a math major.

[noemon]

Infant mortality responsibility lies with the state and its healthcare provisions, your argument is falsely attributing blame to the Black community.

Ethiopia derived prestige with its uniquely successful military resistance during the late 19th-century Scramble for Africa, becoming the only African country to defeat a European colonial power and retain its sovereignty.

[Suntzu]

The reason Black infant mortality is higher is they smoke, drink and do drugs during pregnancy and don't get prenatal care even though it is free.

[Drlee]

How one fares in the United States has been characterized by a racial division that begins at birth with disparities in health care. Inadequate health care can have a significant effect on the future social and economic path of newborns.

Despite continued improvements in the health of the African American population, black babies are still nearly 2.5 times more likely than white babies to die before reaching their first birthday. To make matters worse, recent data show rising infant mortality among blacks in some states.

Great. I will welcome you to the ranks of Hillary Clinton and her supporters who favor national and universal health care. Thanks for your statistics showing that you and I are both on the right side of this issue as we support democrats and others who would give everyone health care and bring down this infant mortality rate you find so grievous.

Of course whites would benefit too because as a nation we do not do that well compared to those with the kind of health care Hillary Clinton supports.