[Godstud]

Are you daft?

You don't think that a husband cheating on his wife might hurt them?

[Hindsite]

. She does if he cheated on her and now she hates him.

You must be referring to Bill and Hillary Clinton after the Monica Lewinsky affair.

[Godstud]

Oh, I expected that Bill got the could shoulder and such, a great deal. I am not condoning ANY infidelity. Get divorced if you want to fuck around on your spouse, as you obviously don't love them.

Still, we're not discussing Clintons, or their marriage, which is irrelevant.

[Suntzu]

Didn't JFK fuck an 18 year old intern in his bedroom in the White House not to mention Marilyn Monroe?

[Hindsite]

Didn't JFK fuck an 18 year old intern in his bedroom in the White House not to mention Marilyn Monroe?

The college intern was 19 according to the following article:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/k ... fe-of-jfk/

[Suntzu]

Yeah, 19 is completely different!

I hope he was circumcised.

[Hindsite]

Yeah, 19 is completely different!

I hope he was circumcised.

No, but his brains were blown out. But not because of her. But it was rumored that he had an affair with the wife of someone that had associations with a mob boss, if my memory is correct.

[Drlee]

You know Godstud. I remember when conservatives did not justify bad behavior simply because someone else did it too. I remember when they were to smart for that. I remember my mother teaching me that "two wrongs do not make a right". Sadly these days conservatives aren't capable of understanding so complex a moral position.

[Suntzu]

Two wrong don't make a right but three lefts do. JFK was a god and he could have fucked a goat in the White House and no one would object.

[QatzelOk]

She understood rural people. Puerto Rican rural people are Caribbean people. So we are a mixed race society for a very very long time. If Hindsite were a traditional Puerto Rican and a typical Puerto Rican? He would be one 1/8th African, 1/4th Spanish and some Native Taino and this or that, a big mixture of races. That is the norm for EVERYONE in PR. Not the states. You got mestizaje here but it is not the vast majority Q. Not like it is in Cuba or in PR.

Quebecois are also mixed-race people (French, Irish, Huron, other native) with a history of being discriminated against by Anglo-WASP types, and being "owned" by incredibly successful anglo superpowers that are racially segregating.

But my point was that being rural doesn't mean you're racist or evil. I think you've agreed with my point.

If many rural anglo-North Americans are racist, then I think the reason for this is NOT that they are rural. This is why I have spent much of my university years studying the role of mass media. Rural Americans (and suburban Americans) have had their communities destroyed by car-dependence and television addiction, and the mass media that they are inundated with every moment of their lives is racist and classist.

This is why rural America - along with many dead American cities - are such scary places for outsiders - such shitholes. And many rural Americans have come to pofo to share their "scary worldview" with the world, which is probably a good thing for everyone involved. You can't cure a disease unless you first observe it.

[Tainari88]

Quebecois are also mixed-race people (French, Irish, Huron, other native) with a history of being discriminated against by Anglo-WASP types, and being "owned" by incredibly successful anglo superpowers that are racially segregating.

But my point was that being rural doesn't mean you're racist or evil. I think you've agreed with my point.

If many rural anglo-North Americans are racist, then I think the reason for this is NOT that they are rural. This is why I have spent much of my university years studying the role of mass media. Rural Americans (and suburban Americans) have had their communities destroyed by car-dependence and television addiction, and the mass media that they are inundated with every moment of their lives is racist and classist.

This is why rural America - along with many dead American cities - are such scary places for outsiders - such shitholes. And many rural Americans have come to pofo to share their "scary worldview" with the world, which is probably a good thing for everyone involved. You can't cure a disease unless you first observe it.

Yes, I think it is a combination of a lot of things Q.

Propaganda is present in every society. But this one is especially bad.

I think what Chomsky says in the last few minutes of this video is scary but true about the United States:

[Victoribus Spolia]

n, and the mass media that they are inundated with every moment of their lives is racist and classist.

Can you give me an example of such media?

[QatzelOk]

Yes, I think it is a combination of a lot of things Q.

And being rural is NOT one of them.

Fidel Castro was born in a small farmtown.

Ukrainian farmers rose up against modern farming techniques in the 1920s.

The French Revolution was fought mainly by rural people.

Shithole worldviews are mainly promoted by oligarchs who are both highly educated and extremely urban. Mass media PhDs and rabid-merchants from Hollywood and New York City are the most responsible for the terrible worldviews of rural North America. Canned racism has been reaching rural ears since the invention of commercial radio. Canned racism has been reaching their eyes since the invention of yellow journalism.

And with everyone so separated by lawns and highways... what other socialization is available to most non-Greenwich-Village-residing Americans? There's no community anymore.

Can you give me an example of such media?

Virtually all commercial and popular media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism

[Drlee]

This is why rural America - along with many dead American cities - are such scary places for outsiders - such shitholes. And many rural Americans have come to pofo to share their "scary worldview" with the world, which is probably a good thing for everyone involved. You can't cure a disease unless you first observe it.

You have to remember Quatz, that slavery ended in the US not because it was bad but because the south lost the war. You also have to remember that the civil war did not start because anyone in the government was trying to end slavery; only slavery in territories that had not yet become states. There is your starting point for modern times. After the civil war it took 100 years to end extreme legal discrimination in the country. It still exists in a big way.

Movies? From Birth of a Nation to 1945s Song of the South. Even recently we have overtly racist movies. Try looking at Gods and Generals. You will love the pastoral scenes of white folks and their slaves enjoying some nice parlor music before going off to war for "their country".

I am not that old and I remember when I was a kid black people calling me sir and separate drinking fountains, not to mention schools. I remember when I was in the Army during the Vietnam war where black men were over represented (to put it mildly) being told that I had to attend "love thy Ni**er" classes. In front of those same black men. To this day I have friends who are truly surprised when I check them for trying to tell me racist jokes. At a dinner party at my home, surrounded by African art, a guest used the N word the other day. (The same guy refers to his two Mexican gardeners as "Hose A and Hose B".) They guy thinks he is smart by the way.

The rest of the world knows that the US is a deeply racist country and with the current administration an officially racist one. We in the US know that racists are a huge part of the Republican base. Huge. We also know that racists almost never admit it but I do not believe that in their hearts they do not know they are racist.

This shit is deep. Really deep. My generation and the one which came after were literally taught institutional racism from birth. The last couple of generations are doing a bit better but not much. And not in the hinterlands. The most dangerous kind of racist is one who is trying to hide it.

So this is why we have to call bullshit when our President makes racist comments and then tries to double-down on it. Would it not be refreshing if he had just apologized and moved on?

[Victoribus Spolia]

Virtually all commercial and popular media.

That is the most ridiculous claim I have ever seen. The media that constantly harps about promoting the plight of the poor refugees and minorities, that condescends to the WWC with their pandering #metoo crap at the grammies, and you are arguing that this same group is anti-muslim and anti-woman while also being pro-refugee and pro-#metoo?

That seems silly.

Hollywood is overwhelming liberal and virtue-signalling, they have no interest in the jingoism, familialism, and religiosity that still presides over rural culture. This is an incredibly disconnected approach to reality to posit otherwise.

Indeed, the same films that got criticized by hollywood libs, like American Sniper, were beloved by rural people because their values precede their viewing of media, not the other way around as you assume.

Indeed, many are tuning out of watching tv altogether because they feel its trying to force progressive values upon them. Look at the old show All in The Family, Archie Bunker was supposed to be the villain, and rural folks viewed him as a hero. It seems they are not so easily "indoctrinated" as you would assume.

Here is one example, my father-in-law has cancelled his cable (which I never would have though was possible 10 years ago), because, in his words: "I'm tired of every show having to have queers in it." He also quit watching the NFL over the whole take-a-knee deal (also something I could never have imagined ten years ago).

So, I don't think the media is making rural people conservative and reactionary. They have always been that way. Even in ancient Rome, the urban Christians had to deal with traditional hold-outs of the old worldview. The pagani, which means rural person, is where we get our word for pagan (polytheistic non-Christian), because the two were associated by Christian Romans so closely.

Rural peoples generally tend to rely on older traditions and customs than the cosmopolitan elites or multicultural rabble of the cities. This includes values.

If rural people seem more reactionary today than before in America, its only because they are getting desperate and fed-up. Today its cutting their cable, tomorrow it might be cutting throats.

[Tainari88]

You have to remember Quatz, that slavery ended in the US not because it was bad but because the south lost the war. You also have to remember that the civil war did not start because anyone in the government was trying to end slavery; only slavery in territories that had not yet become states. There is your starting point for modern times. After the civil war it took 100 years to end extreme legal discrimination in the country. It still exists in a big way.

Movies? From Birth of a Nation to 1945s Song of the South. Even recently we have overtly racist movies. Try looking at Gods and Generals. You will love the pastoral scenes of white folks and their slaves enjoying some nice parlor music before going off to war for "their country".

I am not that old and I remember when I was a kid black people calling me sir and separate drinking fountains, not to mention schools. I remember when I was in the Army during the Vietnam war where black men were over represented (to put it mildly) being told that I had to attend "love thy Ni**er" classes. In front of those same black men. To this day I have friends who are truly surprised when I check them for trying to tell me racist jokes. At a dinner party at my home, surrounded by African art, a guest used the N word the other day. (The same guy refers to his two Mexican gardeners as "Hose A and Hose B".) They guy thinks he is smart by the way.

The rest of the world knows that the US is a deeply racist country and with the current administration an officially racist one. We in the US know that racists are a huge part of the Republican base. Huge. We also know that racists almost never admit it but I do not believe that in their hearts they do not know they are racist.

This shit is deep. Really deep. My generation and the one which came after were literally taught institutional racism from birth. The last couple of generations are doing a bit better but not much. And not in the hinterlands. The most dangerous kind of racist is one who is trying to hide it.

So this is why we have to call bullshit when our President makes racist comments and then tries to double-down on it. Would it not be refreshing if he had just apologized and moved on?

Drlee, people who are racists are also class conscious people. Class consciousness is pernicious as well and pervades almost every single human society known on Earth. Different societies in history have dealt with it in different ways. The bottom line for me being an international socialist is that whatever the economic system bases its discrimination on? Has to be attacked and destroyed as a legal and socioeconomic institution. If you don't? It will perpetuate itself.

It is not going to go away.

@QatzelOk talks a lot about how suburbs are built to isolate people. It is interesting, but I have never voluntarily wanted to live in a suburb. I find them difficult in the extreme. Reading his opinions and facts about how the cities are set up in post WWII societies in North America? How the urban planning is done?How it affects a sense of community is very important to understanding how planned and territorial the issue of being physically isolated from the 'dreaded' ethnic groups of the lower classes and how a racist and classist society is manifested via urban communities.

I want to live in a community. The community that participates in civic life. One of the concepts Q's mentioned various times are bicycle lanes and bicycle and pedestrian walks. I found out the city I am moving to in Mexico, even closes the streets to cars and prohibits any cars from circulating for some days during the week and weekend. They do it to foster community. It is interesting how suburban life artificially tries to create community.

I have to give my most sincere and honest opinion....many big cities and even smaller cities and suburbs of the USA? Are devoid of community. There is a very weak or non existent community life in the USA.

A lot of neighborhoods are segregated according to income of the families. People prefer to flock to communities where there are similar numbers in everyone's bank account and not have to associate with poor or underclass people and their problems. Since the USA is a racist society? It assume Black people and Latinos are living in ghettos and to see many of those faces and families in a neighborhood means the hood is going to hell in a hand basket.

People as Q stated, watch a lot of garbage TV. I have had rural Mexicans and other Latinos tell me to my face that having a black son is not good because Black people in the USA are criminals who steal, rob and rape and kill....so that means my kid is a danger.

I ask them politely, "Where do you get these messages?" and they say, "The news, the television shows, the magazines, and newspapers, etc. The message is out there. I smile and tell them, "What do they say about Mexicans and other Latinos?" They say, "I am not sure." I tell them 'what they say about Blacks, they say about Latinos too." And they say, "But that is not true." And I tell a joke, "You mean you are not a crazy Mexican drug dealer dealing drugs and raping innocent blond Gringas?". Are you sure? Lol. They then say, "But the drug dealers in my town in Mexico is not the vast majority of Mexican society. Most of us are hard working, God fearing, decent people." I answer him, "But the propaganda is not saying that."

People believe shit about other people whom they don't know, don't understand and who their life experience is not shared in the least. People's who's history you never studied, who's language and culture and social milieu you never mix with is very easy to believe total fabrications and shit about.

I have a very deep aversion to stereotypes and taking what the society Q doles out as 'gospel truth'. I have a healthy distrust of conventional media. I question the motives under capitalism. All of it. Not just one part of it. It has served me well to be always suspicious of what is told and sold as 'truth' to others.

Many of the posters in this thread who post about Africa the Shithole are all people who in my estimation never studied either African history at all with any dedication, have not read any books written by African Americans in history in a systemic way, and who never dealt with African professionals for long periods of social and academic and just time spent together as EQUALS. They have not.

But they want to say that Africans are inferior based on a lack of knowledge. They won't study African American history, African national histories, nothing. Refuse to do it. But want to say that African culture and people are SHITHOLES and that the entire race is inferior. Shut the door on it.

They believe they are right.

Ignorance is always that way. Don't work on being naturally curious. Don't be analytical. Don't be evidence or fact based in terms of why people have darker skin....is it because they come from land that is very hot and sunny and nature protects humans from sun burn? No...it is because it makes dark skinned people's intellects inferior. Vitamin D is critical for many things. But somehow the people they keep denying humanity to are not human.

That is insane. And most racism and class consciousness is insanity. But that is what we have to deal with.

[Suntzu]

What if I think Africans are inferior based on knowledge. You can bet you bottom dollar that I know more African-American history, more African history than you.

Neighborhood are segregated by class because they are segregated by income because houses in neighborhoods tend to be homogeneous in price and folks who make more buy more expensive houses. Was that simple enough for you?

[Drlee]

[Suntzu]

You have to remember Quatz, that slavery ended in the US not because it was bad but because the south lost the war. You also have to remember that the civil war did not start because anyone in the government was trying to end slavery; only slavery in territories that had not yet become states. There is your starting point for modern times. After the civil war it took 100 years to end extreme legal discrimination in the country. It still exists in a big way.

Movies? From Birth of a Nation to 1945s Song of the South. Even recently we have overtly racist movies. Try looking at Gods and Generals. You will love the pastoral scenes of white folks and their slaves enjoying some nice parlor music before going off to war for "their country".

I am not that old and I remember when I was a kid black people calling me sir and separate drinking fountains, not to mention schools. I remember when I was in the Army during the Vietnam war where black men were over represented (to put it mildly) being told that I had to attend "love thy Ni**er" classes. In front of those same black men. To this day I have friends who are truly surprised when I check them for trying to tell me racist jokes. At a dinner party at my home, surrounded by African art, a guest used the N word the other day. (The same guy refers to his two Mexican gardeners as "Hose A and Hose B".) They guy thinks he is smart by the way.

The rest of the world knows that the US is a deeply racist country and with the current administration an officially racist one. We in the US know that racists are a huge part of the Republican base. Huge. We also know that racists almost never admit it but I do not believe that in their hearts they do not know they are racist.

This shit is deep. Really deep. My generation and the one which came after were literally taught institutional racism from birth. The last couple of generations are doing a bit better but not much. And not in the hinterlands. The most dangerous kind of racist is one who is trying to hide it.

So this is why we have to call bullshit when our President makes racist comments and then tries to double-down on it. Would it not be refreshing if he had just apologized and moved on?

Funny, I was in the same army at the same time, never had any of those classes. Of the 58,000 or so names on the Vietnam War Memorial, 7,262 are Black around 12.5%.

[Tainari88]

What if I think Africans are inferior based on knowledge. You can bet you bottom dollar that I know more African-American history, more African history than you.

Neighborhood are segregated by class because they are segregated by income because houses in neighborhoods tend to be homogeneous in price and folks who make more buy more expensive houses. Was that simple enough for you?

Now, you are straight up lying. But that doesn't surprise me.

You know more African history than I do? You haven't even asked me what I studied. You are straight up lying through your teeth.

You don't make sense.