Swiss tourist gang-raped in central India - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14198590
Political Interest wrote:I hope the guilty will be sentenced to death.


I agree, at the moment they need the strong sentence like "death" to attempt to curve the amount of Rapes in India. And they also need to reform education to plant the seeds of respecting woman and men as equals and send the message violence isn't the answer into children at a young age and do community events to rise the awareness of the issue and push to get the community actively looking out for the woman (and men).

Andropov wrote:Interesting how China does not suffer from the same problem.


I think at multiple levels china has become more civilized (westernized) then India. For some reason India seems to be slowing down in terms of civilizing (westernizing) and is currently caught between two worlds and for some reason, I believe has created a rip with in Indian society causing social decay of vales resulting in ever rising amounts of crimes in the country.
#14198641
I'd have them executed for terrorism, pure and simple: This wave of gang rapes is a campaign of terror waged on women by reactionary men who wish to terrify women into submission, most likely because they feel threatened by a modicum of female empowerment in the country. Rape used as a weapon of political warfare. There must be only one response to reactionary terror: Death.
#14198691
They certainly are unlikely to be political supporters of Sonia Gandhi, to say the least.

In reference to Ahovking's remarks, what on earth does Westernization have to do with eliminating rape?
#14208965
Far-Right Sage wrote:They certainly are unlikely to be political supporters of Sonia Gandhi, to say the least.

In reference to Ahovking's remarks, what on earth does Westernization have to do with eliminating rape?


Nothing, Its the fact Indian society is torn in between western and traditional way which create conflicts within the society. And when you have a society torn between two ways of living this type of social conflicts tends to slowly eats way at the moral and values of the society.



I've just been watching CNN where they were inverting a Indian scholar and politician where he was blaming the foreign woman for the rapes. Saying they were sending the wrong signals to these men, and that the men weren't in the wrong.
#14210879
Nothing, Its the fact Indian society is torn in between western and traditional way which create conflicts within the society. And when you have a society torn between two ways of living this type of social conflicts tends to slowly eats way at the moral and values of the society.



I've just been watching CNN where they were inverting a Indian scholar and politician where he was blaming the foreign woman for the rapes. Saying they were sending the wrong signals to these men, and that the men weren't in the wrong

_____

It is kind of funny how no one seems to draw parallels to the Brazilian gang rape of a US woman that took place recently :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the ... story.html

I think it is an aspect of hoolinganism, poverty and umemployment coming together at the same time. There is no dearth for such cases and people in places like India, South Africa & Brazil to name a few.

India's problem is 10% of such a population could mean a 100 million people. Most of the tourists should be aware of the fact that they are in a foreign country where there is rampant corruption, high levels of poverty and unemployed people. Why would one take a chance and then camp in some remote part of India away from civilization ( these tourists at the time of assault were in some part of central India not inhabited by working class Indians either )??

It is a terrible thing which has happened to the Swiss tourist , but I also believe one needs to be on guard in a foreign country. Letting it down could have dire consequences.

Having said that, India needs to take care of these uneducated, unemployed and poor ( all the suspects in gang rapes and rapes share these traits in India lately) people and provide them opportunities to make a decent living so that they have better sense prevailing before thinking of committing such crimes.

I would be shocked if this crime was committed by a group of IT sweat shop software engineers. That is an alarm.
#14212123
Ahovking wrote:I think at multiple levels china has become more civilized (westernized) then India. For some reason India seems to be slowing down in terms of civilizing (westernizing) and is currently caught between two worlds and for some reason, I believe has created a rip with in Indian society causing social decay of vales resulting in ever rising amounts of crimes in the country.


Westernization (in any way you define it) has nothing to do with this issue, its not that all western countries have completely freed themselves up from "patriarchal" control or the problem in India is relatively alarmingly high.

But its interesting to see China being considered westernized in this case but when China comes off in bad light, she needs more westernization?

But India is indeed facing a severe problem and she has been in news recently because of "raising voices" and not raising incidents, but the important and bad news from India on the wider women issue is that the much celebrated "verma committee" recommendations were diluted in the ordinance recently cleared by the government that it has for all practical purposes became toothless with most important part being that "India" will still not classify "marital rape" as rape.

more here

I-stat wrote:India needs to take care of these uneducated, unemployed and poor ( all the suspects in gang rapes and rapes share these traits in India lately) people and provide them opportunities to make a decent living so that they have better sense prevailing before thinking of committing such crimes.


The fuck? No accused in the infamous Delhi case were unemployed or illiterate, neither these are the common traits of them gang rapers. This is just a ridiculous generalization. The "british women jumping from window" news as posted by FRS, the accused is the owner of the hotel where this happened. certainly not poor.
#14212249
The fuck? No accused in the infamous Delhi case were unemployed or illiterate, neither these are the common traits of them gang rapers. This is just a ridiculous generalization. The "british women jumping from window" news as posted by FRS, the accused is the owner of the hotel where this happened. certainly not poor.


This is exactly what happens when people with no knowledge of the country's ground reality start speaking. To give you some facts :

DELHI GANG RAPE

"Six men were arrested in connection with the incident. They included Ram Singh, the bus driver, and his brother, Mukesh Singh, who were both arrested in Rajasthan. Vinay Sharma, an assistant gym instructor, and Pawan Gupta, a fruit seller, were both arrested in Delhi.[41] A seventeen year old juvenile from Uttar Pradesh, referred to as Raju,[42][43][44] was arrested at the Anand Vihar terminal in Delhi and Akshay Thakur, who had come to Delhi seeking employment, was arrested in Aurangabad"

Bus Drivers make about Rs 3000 Rupees a month ( $50 a month) . Bus drivers in India are the lowest working class and are generally not educated. His brother Mukesh Singh was also jobless at the time of the crime. Assistant Gym instructor and fruit seller both are from the unorganized sector of India ( no payslips, no tax payments etc and mostly they are paid in the grey economy , regardless they wouldnt be making more than $100 a month). Juvenile was not employed and dropped out of school . The last suspect was apparently "looking" for a job in Delhi.

Now I find it hard to believe what part of these suspects description doesnt sound like "illiterate , unemployed & poor" to fuser. Yes, most of the rapes of this kind recently in India are being committed by people from the lower starta of the society who share the traits mentioned.

The British Woman Case , from BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21914192

The acussed is the hotel manager and not the owner. This so called hotel manager in Agra , falls under the $100-$150 a month bracket again. He was drunk at the time by the way. You can see the image of the "hotel" , to give you an idea of its structure.


Hope this answers Fuser "ridiculous generalization" .

*I could not produce statistics for the median salaries of bus drivers and "hotel" managers from the unorganized sector in India as they are not available officially. But as someone who has lived there , I made some approximations.
#14212254


so much text to say nothing.

Bus drivers are by definition employed. Neither being a bus driver = illiterate.

This is exactly what happens when people with no knowledge of the country's ground reality start speaking


won't fly. I am an Indian in India only, someone who was in the crowd of protesters not in Delhi itself though.
#14212256
So much text to refute your misrepresentation of the

"British Woman Case"


and the bus driver , if under the law of India is not on a payscale and not paying taxes, does not qualify as employed to me.

Protesting does not change anything . It is a mere tool of self satisfaction, more importantly, does not qualify one to misrepresent facts.

Now you will get back to me saying the fruit "seller" was into selling and should be considered a trader. LOLworthy.
#14212259
I don't care who according to your "personal views" is employed or not. By any definition a bus driver is not considered to be unemployed anywhere. Neither a hotel manager is unemployed.

Also please provide any reputable source/ academic paper/ definition where it says that bus drivers/ hotel managers or workers in unorganized sectors in general are "unemployed" before talking about facts.

I can't believe I am having a discussion regarding whether a bus driver should be considered employed or not.

Also please provide source for your arbitrary rs 3000 for bus driver and finally

does not qualify one to misrepresent facts.


Pay more attention, I was not playing my nationality to make my argument, it was you who were downplaying the argument because of the good old meme "you don't know the country" hence your argument is wrong. Try harder.

Also where did you get the $100 - $150 for the manager, any source for that? Seriously back up these numbers rather than simply flying whatever arbitrary number pops up in your head.
#14212266
Attention and your posts do not go well together. I am talking about " unemployed, illiterate and poor" together.

Please learn to read what is being said first, understand it and then post . Your Hotel owner description itself shows the capacity to interpret .
#14212268
Hotel owner? Really now you are going to base your argument on a fucking typo, a silly mistake. While the larger point still remains that whether owner or manager, he/she is still employed and will not be considered unemployed anywhere by any definition.

And of course you are talking about them together and that is exactly why seeing that the very first of your description is completely and utterly wrong regarding these examples, your whole generalization is plain ridiculous.

Finally its good to see that you can't back up your arbitrary numbers in any meaningful way.
#14212270
I cant back up my arbitrary numbers ( which I already stated why and has been comfortably ignored ) just like how you interpret a piece of identity information about a"Hotel manager" as Hotel owner .

Anybody who can produce relevant numbers about India's unorganized sector is a sham artist, some of whom you might have recognized in your protests.
#14212276
I cant back up my arbitrary numbers ( which I already stated why and has been comfortably ignored )


Then stop posting such arbitrary numbers in order to make your point if you can't even back them up and of course numbers can be produced, there are many well researched documents available on www too. Just saying that its a sham won't cut.

just like how you interpret a piece of identity information about a"Hotel manager" as Hotel owner .




As expected with nothing to argue now, you will fall back to this typo only. But then of course I made a mistake albeit a very small one which have no relevance on the wider argument i.e. whether hotel manager or owner the person in question was not unemployed as you claimed. Now are you even going to try to defend your claim or will keep pointing out the same typo ad infinitium?
#14212319
Ahovking wrote:I've just been watching CNN where they were inverting a Indian scholar and politician where he was blaming the foreign woman for the rapes. Saying they were sending the wrong signals to these men, and that the men weren't in the wrong


I-stat wrote:It is kind of funny how no one seems to draw parallels to the Brazilian gang rape of a US woman that took place recently (...)I think it is an aspect of hoolinganism, poverty and umemployment coming together at the same time. There is no dearth for such cases and people in places like India, South Africa & Brazil to name a few.


I-stat, could you better explain what you mean?

I don't know how we could blame the foreign women for sending the "wrong signals" here in Brazil when most of the time the foreign women dress more conservatively than the Brazilian women! Besides, rapists have a hard life in Brazil, because when they go to jail they tend to be killed by the other prisoners. The ones who raped the American tourist have already been beaten by the other prisoners.

Brazilian newspaper wrote:Durante a audiência desta terça eles pediram ao juiz que autorizasse a transferência dos presos, que estariam sendo agredidos por colegas de cela

Translation: "During Tuesday's court hearing the lawyers asked the judge to allow the prisoners' transfer to another jail, since they have already been attacked by their cellmates."

Source: http://zerohora.clicrbs.com.br/rs/policia/noticia/2013/04/eles-riam-sarcasticamente-o-tempo-todo-diz-namorado-de-turista-estuprada-no-rio-4101377.html

And there have been 13,096 rape cases in Brazil in 2011 (page 24). Far less than the 90,000 rape cases in the US in 2008 or the 500,000 rapes which occur every year in South Africa. So, I really would like to understand what your point is. Thanks!

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