India's Mars Orbiter reaches the red planet - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14468363
India created history on Wednesday, becoming the first country in the world to succeed on its first Mars mission when Isro's Mangalyaan slipped into Martian orbit after a few nail-biting moments.

The country joined the United States, European Space Agency and the former Soviet Union in the elite club of Martian explorers with the Mars Orbiter Mission, affectionately called MOM.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/specials/ ... 67726.aspx

Congratulations! However it is important to note that there is a considerable difference in capability between a 15kg mars orbiter and the ability to conduct soft landings on other worlds, put 5-ton segments into orbit and engage in extravehicular, manned spaceflight. The general public has no clue beyond the media headline but I hope the Indian scientific establishment does not lose sight of their lofty goals going forward. I want to see India as a viable space power in my lifetime, because the more the merrier.
#14468403
India may have reached Mars but it still makes some pretty shitty CGIs, have you seen any CGI in bollywood, olly? You will see what I mean.

So, I don't think it could be CGI.
Last edited by fuser on 24 Sep 2014 08:44, edited 1 time in total.
#14468404
fuser wrote:India may have reached Mars but it still makes some pretty shitty CGIs, have you seen any CGI in bollywood, oily? You will see what I mean.

So, I don't think it could be CGI.


Actually I had more in mind NASA's CGIs. I shall say no more!!

('oily'? Image)
#14468406
Sorry about the typo, edited.

So, you mean to say India paid money to NASA to create this CGI? This is some conspiracy stuff, so yeah its better that we don't talk about it lest this thread gets thrown in conspiracy sub forum.
#14468408
fuser wrote:Sorry about the typo, edited.


No prob - it's just that somehow or other I became 'oily' on my previous board. Image

So, you mean to say India paid money to NASA to create this CGI?


No.

This is some conspiracy stuff, so yeah its better that we don't talk about it lest this thread gets thrown in conspiracy sub forum.


Good idea.
#14469575
Congratulations to our Indian brothers and sisters in the holy land of mother Bharat!

And in addition to the EU mission, only Russia and the United States have made entry into Mars' orbit. India is the very first Asian country to do so, which is worlds of excitement and truly a monumental achievement which deserves even greater press coverage; particularly detailing the financing behind this mission.

Hope to see continued research and more ambitious projects; Indians should get in on the submarine project NASA is crafting for exploration of the oceans of Saturn's Titan.

Jai Hind!! It is natural that the Indian folk be at the forefront of disestablishing the barrier which exists for man between ignorance and attainment of high knowledge in this world!
#14469701
Atlantis wrote:It doesn't make sense for India to waste resources on space exploration. The country doesn't have the industrial base to become a major player in the global aerospace business.


Not this again. First, it doesn't matter if India becomes a "major" player in global aerospace business.

Then, its not wasting resources at all, Indian space program has been immensely beneficial for the country, furthermore its good to spend on Scientific endeavors rather than to let oneself to be left behind other developed countries, only to become completely dependent on them in future. As it stands today, India's expenditure on Science (including space) is pathetic and is in need to be increased rather than crying "waste of resources."

Its ridiculous to say that less than 0.10% of GDP going to space programs (which have been immensely benefited the country) is what is holding the country back.
#14469716
fuser wrote:Indian space program has been immensely beneficial for the countr


"Immensely beneficial"? Show us the benefits! I mean the actual facts, not your theory. What share has India on the international satellite or launch market? I don't mean Indian national satellites which are not on the market.

Considering that ISRO is one of the biggest space agencies, it must soak up quite a bit of resources in its bureaucracy, even if Indian researchers come real cheap.

Anyways, no matter how small or how big the waste, the money would be better spent on agriculture, AI, quality control, new materials, pharma, automobile, etc., R&D.

The other day, Daccia decided to switch it's SUV manufacturing from India to Romania because the Indians did such a poor paint job that the cars started to rust after a short time.

Seems you got your priorities wrong.
#14469720
"Immensely beneficial"? Show us the benefits! I mean the actual facts, not your theory. What share has India on the international satellite or launch market?


Right......because benefits only mean share in international satellite or launch market?

Here are some of the benefits of Indian space program at the top off my head :

The recent typhoon that struck India in 2013 recently without any serious losses of life was exactly because of ISRO and her missions which warned and exactly predicted the timing and place where typhoon was going to struck, last time a typhoon in the same place had cost thousands of lives unlike the previous typhoon in the same region.

Indian Space program have been basically used in Communications, weather observation, land and resource management among many others

Nobody would mistake India for a leader in outer space. Many Indians are hopeful that the launch this week of the Chandrayaan I spacecraft, which will orbit the moon in search of water, will mark a turning point for the nation's space program. The Indian mission will carry instruments for the U.S. and European space agencies in addition to its own Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO). Judging from local media coverage, Indians are following the mission almost as closely as the gyrations of the stock markets.

The Indian space program is already far ahead in one respect: its use of space technologies to solve the everyday problems of ordinary people on the ground. For more than 20 years, India has been quietly investing hundreds of millions of dollars in its earth-sciences program with an eye toward helping farmers with their crops, fishermen with their catches and rescue workers with management of floods and other disasters. "India is leading the way in the approach towards the rationale for earth observation," says Stephen Briggs, the head of the European Space Agency's (ESA) Earth Observation Science and Applications Department.

Measured by the number and sophistication of their satellites, America and Europe may be ahead of India. But with an annual budget of about $1 billion—less than a tenth of NASA's—ISRO covers a lot of ground. It has built and launched 46 satellites, which provide data for at least nine Indian government ministries. Its 11 national communications satellites are the largest network in Asia, and its seven remote sensing satellites map objects on Earth at a resolution of less than a meter. These form the backbone of a series of practical initiatives that, according to a Madras School of Economics study, have generated a $2 return for every $1 spent. "We have clearly shown that we can give back to the country much more than is invested in the space program," says ISRO chairman Madhavan Nair.

The satellite network is the fruit of an effort begun in 1982 to connect India's remote—and often roadless—regions to radio, TV and telephone networks. By 2002, ISRO had expanded satellite TV and radio coverage to nearly 90 percent of the country, up from 25 percent.

India's investment in Earth observation satellites over the years comes to only about $500 million per satellite, about a tenth of the cost of its Western counterparts. After introducing a satellite service to locate potential fish zones and broadcasting the sites over All India Radio, ISRO helped coastal fishermen double the size of their catch. For the government's Rajiv Gandhi National Drinking Water Mission, begun in 1986, satellites have improved the success rate of government well-drilling projects by 50 to 80 percent, saving $100 million to $175 million. Meteorological satellites have improved the government's ability to predict the all-important Indian monsoon, which can influence India's gross domestic product by 2 to 5 percent.

Next, ISRO plans to roll out satellite-enabled services to hundreds of millions of farmers in India's remote villages. In partnership with NGOs and government bodies, it has helped to set up about 400 Village Resource Centers so far. Each provides connections to dozens of villages for Internet-based services such as access to commodities pricing information, agricultural advice from crop experts and land records. ISRO's remote-sensing data will also help village councils develop watersheds and irrigation projects, establish accurate land records and plan new roads connecting their villages with civilization as cheaply and efficiently as possible. One ISRO partner—the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation—has used satellites to conduct 78,000 training programs for more than 300,000 farmers in 550 villages, teaching them about farming practices like drip-and-sprinkle irrigation, health-care awareness programs for diseases like malaria and tuberculosis, and information about how to access government services. Using satellites to guide reclamation of 2 million hectares of saline and alkaline wastelands is expected to generate income of more than $500 million a year.


Source

See the bolded part, I don't care about International market, that's not the they only benchmark, the bottomline is that Indian space program has indeed been very beneficial for the country.

Also, see this : Antrix a marketing arm of ISRO with annual turnover of over $200 million and the cost of this Mars mission was $74 million.

Not to speak of the advancement of scientific and engineering skills which is another advantage for the country in long turn.

Considering that ISRO is one of the biggest space agencies, it must soak up quite a bit of resources in its bureaucracy, even if Indian researchers come real cheap.


Yeah, and someone was talking about posting facts and not theories. Indian space program receives around 0.05% of Indian GDP, its just a drop in the proverbial ocean.

Anyways, no matter how small or how big the waste, the money would be better spent on agriculture, AI, quality control, new materials, pharma, automobile, etc., R&D.


This is not R&D? Then, first of all its not a waste as already stated and nothing is being taken away from all the things you mentioned, it doesn't mean that when you are spending on space program (and only 0.5% at that), all other things are being lagged behind. This is again one of the most ridiculous argument ever against this space program. The world doesn't work as in "either this or that".

Seriously, every country has many problems, any one can pick up any random problem, compare it with that country's space or whatever program and claim that this program shouldn't exist. Please, do try better than this if you are seriously going to challenge any space program.

I love how no such foul cry is made when countries like India purchase expensive weapons from European countries (like the recent purchase of an aircraft carrier from Russia which is much much more expansive than this mars mission) but once you do something in the field of space or in any advanced technological field, it must be a waste.

The other day, Daccia decided to switch it's SUV manufacturing from India to Romania because the Indians did such a poor paint job that the cars started to rust after a short time.


And? Space program is responsible for this? Somehow scrapping ISRO will rectify this issue? or may be they are two different issues to be handled differently? And I though one can't get more ridiculous.

Seems you got your priorities wrong.


Seems that you have no idea about things you are talking about.
Last edited by fuser on 28 Sep 2014 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
#14469721
fuser wrote:Yeah, and someone was talking about posting facts and not theories. Indian space program receives around 0.05 of Indian GDP, its just a drop in the proverbial ocean.


And I'm sure the space boffins are very grateful for every rupee. They'll soon be asking for more though, once they cotton on to how the scam works. Indeed they'll find out that the sky's er, I mean the universe is the limit.
#14469723
Ummm, no.

ISRO gives back much more than what it takes, the Antrix (let alone all other major benefits) itself has a turnover of over double than the amount ISRO receives from the government.

Although yes, the budget has been increased for ISRO and still its minuscule and much more is needed.
#14469764
Olly the brit seems to legitimately believe that NASA lies, nobody has or can go to space, and space programs are just scams.

If I were rich I would offer to pay for a ticket so he could go up in xspace or whatever their calling the new tourist ride for the super rich.
#14469783
fuser wrote:Here are some of the benefits of Indian space program at the top off my head :

I could have given you better examples, but none of this is relevant. You could have gotten all of this better for less money by simply using existing technology. Well, you do. Isro is using French technology and Russian hardware. There is no point in reinventing the wheel.

What's the point in spending a few billions on developing a new cryogenic engine, or in copying on old Russian model, if there are already half a dozen models which you will not be able to match? In this business you will always be second rate.

You don't need independent access to space either. It's a buyers market. If the Americans don't want to launch your satellite, you ask the Europeans, the Russians, the Chinese, even the Japanese could do it. Today, there are plenty of launch offers and satellites to chose from.

For missiles you don't need cryogenic technology either. There are proven solid fuel boosters, which are not difficult to develop, even though Isro had some problems with those too.

India is falling behind in the technology race, especially in comparison to China. That will seriously damage your economy. To waste resources on a useless prestige project while neglecting useful technology is stupid. No, better learn how to do a proper paint job on cars before going to Mars.
#14469793
I could have given you better examples, but none of this is relevant


Of course its relevant, just because you don't like it, it doesn't become irrelevant, India's space program has been immensely beneficial to her, as already proven. Saying "Nuh-uh" is not actually an argument. And seeing that this has been the cheapest flight to Mars I fail to see how much cheaper you expect. Even "cheapest" is not satisfactory to some people.

You could have gotten all of this better for less money by simply using existing technology. Well, you do. Isro is using French technology and Russian hardware.


So, you make a point and then dismiss it yourself, so what was the point? And once again, you seriously need to get out of the simplistic, "its either this or that" thought, India can use french and Russian technology as well as try to develop its own, they are not mutually exclusive things.

What's the point in spending a few billions on developing a new cryogenic engine, or in copying on old Russian model, if there are already half a dozen models which you will not be able to match?


The point has already been shown and its not about matching the existing models for the sake of it as you seem to think.

In this business you will always be second rate.


Now this actually is irrelevant, the goal is not to become any "rate" until its beneficial for the country which it is.

You don't need independent access to space either. It's a buyers market. If the Americans don't want to launch your satellite, you ask the Europeans, the Russians, the Chinese, even the Japanese could do it. Today, there are plenty of launch offers and satellites to chose from.


And it will not cost money? Apparently self sufficiency is bad even though already shown that the whole program including ISRO's marketing arm has only been beneficial to the country while also being the cheapest.

For missiles you don't need cryogenic technology either. There are proven solid fuel boosters, which are not difficult to develop, even though Isro had some problems with those too.


Irrelevant.

India is falling behind in the technology race, especially in comparison to China. That will seriously damage your economy. To waste resources on a useless prestige project while neglecting useful technology is stupid


What actually is stupid is putting fingers in your ears and screaming lalala as you are doing here. Go back and try to read other people's points before harping on usual tripe that has already been addressed. To remind, as already stated this is not a prestige project, 0.05% of GDP is != waste of huge resources (specially when as already shown that investment has returned much much higher dividends), neither it means "neglecting" other sectors. This argument is one of the most ridiculous arguments i.e. if z exist, a to y are being neglected and can be applied to any scenario and any country without requiring any knowledge or analysis of the subject matter at all.

No, better learn how to do a proper paint job on cars before going to Mars.


Yup because latter is most definitely hindering the former and two can't coexist. How you fight against this kind of logic.
#14469896
I loved how atlantis asked a question which was his major contention (in form of "show me the facts" as if none existed), only to later boast that he has better facts and its irrelevant, wait what? So why ask for facts in the first place and that too as if this was your major contention? I don't think Atlantis even knows what or why is he arguing.

Anyhow moving on,

first image from mom (mars orbital mission) of Mars.

Image

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