[STA]

I dont think I;m good enough to be one of the 4 debaters.

I would like to be a liberal. I think TSaler should be the captian of the team, if he wants me, which i doubt, i'd be glad to be a debater.

[STA]

The only problem I see, is lack of conservatives.

Excuse me??? I believe I can put together a very formidable team, without seeking outside help Thank You very much.

(What am I chopped liver?)

For what it's worth Kam, I kinda like this idea as well. I would need a bit of time to assemble the team, but as noted Todd D. is in, and I can recruit the other two in a reasonable amount of time.

But I agree that this would better if it were issue driven and not simply essays on the better ideology...

Lack of conservatives my ass...

You only need 4. Demo, Todd, Goran, TAL, there is a team right there.

[Kamil]

I'd much rather prefer debate between ideologies since I think that we desperately need some change over here. The debate will definately impact the popularity of certain ideologies within the forum and we pretty much have debates on many disparate issues everyday over here. If what you mentioned is exemplified, it is our duty to explain how it was never able to create its desired milieu and how it will do such each and everytime. Capitalism and Communism have been attempted so many times yet they have gotten no where. Refute the excuses for these faults. http://struggle.net/ALDS This is the sort of debate we can try to create.

Edit: As for debating issues, they usually vary on an individual basis, it doesn't always correspond with an ideological affiliation. The different political philosophies generally agree on their philosophies and do not take the same stance as others within their line of thought do. Groups may usually even take identical positions.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Well we should see if this becomes popular with the board on a whole. I am for it so count me in. (I would be on the marxist debate team or I can even moderate a debate if you need someone).

[TROI]

Yes, but if we were to debate ideology it would get way too bogged down in history. As Conservatives know fuck all about Marxism, anarchism, or anything at all really

[Boris]

Yes, but if we were to debate ideology it would get way too bogged down in history. As Conservatives know fuck all about Marxism, anarchism, or anything at all really

Actually I know a few conservatives on this board who know the whole arguement for marxism and anarchism, and would not want to take the risk, believe differently in human nature, rely somewhat on history(the we had are chance and failed arguement), the this is what works and that doesn't. All Marxists have to say is the exact opposite, History is only relative. A Marxist will put the number for deaths in the Soviet Union created by Stalin and his policies at a much lower number than a conservative would. But over all, HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR A LOT OF DEATHS. It will come down to the History debate, because everyone has a different view of History and you would have to have lived through and documented the event to be close to what actually happened, Not only would you have to live through it, you would have to be many different people at the same time to get the overalll view of the situation, something no one here has done.

Debate on ideologies would be meaningless. Because of the nature of an actual debate, idelogies wouldn't really fit because you have many issues withen an ideology. Break down the ideologies and form issues from them. Or just simplify it to an issue, since ideologies most of the time have never been completed and probably wont(don't jump on me, but the evidence is on my side). Have fun.

[glinert]

Demosthenes I think I definitely qualify as Platonist or Conservative, but in my own country. Where do I go?

[Kamil]

Yes, but if we were to debate ideology it would get way too bogged down in history. As Conservatives know fuck all about Marxism, anarchism, or anything at all really

That's why we should write out programs for our ideology.

Debate on ideologies would be meaningless. Because of the nature of an actual debate, idelogies wouldn't really fit because you have many issues withen an ideology. Break down the ideologies and form issues from them. Or just simplify it to an issue, since ideologies most of the time have never been completed and probably wont(don't jump on me, but the evidence is on my side). Have fun.

We have not really been given the opportunity to hold a battle of the ideologies. We usually go on different sorts of forums and argue. If we happen to stumble on the liberalist board and prompt an arguement, it is likely that the debate will be between a few non-liberalists and many liberalists. If we decided to make this more professional, we could put a lot of time and effort into our work so that it'd be of much greater quality and perhaps your point can be sent across with more clarity and comprehension. If one were to utilize the arguement that "our system never worked its proposed function" then you can surely make the audience understand your viewpoint and not the individual. As these teams will be picked by responsible people(hopefully), we will have great debaters that will not turn to such lame refutations. Check out http://struggle.net/ALDS for an example of what I am looking for.

The debate would consist of not the other opponents stand on issues but on ideologies such as their theory to an ideal state of society, how to get there, how to maintain it, etc.... It might as well turn to a debate of issues between some similiar ideologies. We always debate issues. It varies on personal opinion. Anyways, I gotta go now....Can't finish up just yet.

[Damien]

Demosthenes I think I definitely qualify as Platonist or Conservative, but in my own country. Where do I go?

And you call yourself a "patriot" to communism.

[Demosthenes]

And you call yourself a "patriot" to communism

I'm a little tired of reading your immature badgering of him. So far the admin have told Glinert to just avoid the threads you post in. To a point I agree. However you sniveling little brat, now you are following him around badgering him. You're really only making a complete ass out of YOURSELF, by doing that as 99% of us of any ideology respect glinert a million times more than you.

Now be a good boy, and go back to your conspiracy theory threads and leave the man in peace.

Glinert said:

Demosthenes I think I definitely qualify as Platonist or Conservative, but in my own country. Where do I go?

honestly Glinert, I can't say. I have a hard time sorting out current Russian politics and how it fits into the tradional view of right/left, or authoritarian/libertarian. Maxim, would be better able to guage that I think.

TROI said:

As Conservatives know fuck all about Marxism, anarchism, or anything at all really

Ha, ha, eh...ha ha... That was a real kneeslapper and cheap shot. You'll see when debate begins, that you are wrong.

Kam-

I really disagree on the "issues" issue. It is much easier to articulate an opinon on a given issue than trying to place a stance on any given issue into an overall ideology and why, in a reasonable amount of time. I have to say, too that I am extremely busy. If you are set on a July 1 deadline it'll make it tougher for me to pull that off, but I'll do what I can.

Also, apparently I was misunderstood judging from comments by other members, about what I was suggesting. About Judges: You're not going to find any non-biased judges. It's just not going to happen. SO you have two options three as-neutra-as-possible judges, or simply give in and try to have one judge from each of the most opposed ideologies.

When I mentioned Yeddi, Jon, Gothmog, Glinert, or Der Frei I was suggesting judges. Perhaps even Vivesekt would be good. All seem to have some capacity to be objective.

Ice_Demon said:
No offense to TAL or Goran, but I have others in mind. and I realize I only need 4.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Ok, now we need to have the moderators of the forums agree to do this. And then we have teams of 4 (One of the four is that forums moderator, so for communism you would have Jaakko and for socialism Maxim.)

[TROI]

Ha, ha, eh...ha ha... That was a real kneeslapper and cheap shot. You'll see when debate begins, that you are wrong.

You read Marx?

[Kamil]

I really disagree on the "issues" issue. It is much easier to articulate an opinon on a given issue than trying to place a stance on any given issue into an overall ideology and why, in a reasonable amount of time. I have to say, too that I am extremely busy. If you are set on a July 1 deadline it'll make it tougher for me to pull that off, but I'll do what I can.

Sure, it'll be difficult to articulate a viable polemic against a certain ideology, but aren't we supposed to pick intelligent and excellent debaters for the teams? I would think that such individuals will be able to formulate some disagreements with an opposing political system. You can easily start off of your initial simple arguements and work yourself up to bigger issues within that system of thought. As for the deadline, we can extend it, although I did set it at such a time since I won't be able to participate post-July 20 due to my excursion to Poland. What would you have in mind?

Also, apparently I was misunderstood judging from comments by other members, about what I was suggesting. About Judges: You're not going to find any non-biased judges. It's just not going to happen. SO you have two options three as-neutra-as-possible judges, or simply give in and try to have one judge from each of the most opposed ideologies.

How about we choose judges, one from each side of the political spectrum. If they're ideology is involved in a debate, they will be disallowed from judging seeing as they'll simply vote for the political group that they're affiliated with. DF would be a good judge for the Anarchist group, but it'd be great if he can participate as a debater for the group.

[Falleen Prince Xizor]

Even though i may not be sufficient a debater to fulfill a role on a team, maybe judging is an option...

Sure, i'm anti-communism, i'm also anti-conservatism.

I'm on the fence on anarchism, leaning towards the negative view, and as far as dictatorships, i'm intrigued, but not, as yet, convinced.

If you're stuck, i'd be happy to help!

[STA]

Someone should Assign "captians" to the teams so someone acctually picks who will be on the teams. Demo looks like he has assumed the "captian" role of the conservative team.

[TROI]

You're only anti-communist in that the word genocide makes you fell uncomfortable and there isn't enough food in the world .

Unless you want to go back to our little thread in the other forum

[Kamil]

Someone should Assign "captians" to the teams so someone acctually picks who will be on the teams. Demo looks like he has assumed the "captian" role of the conservative team.

I think it's been taken care of. Moderators will be appointed as the "captains" who are responsible for picking a team. Political groups without a board can surely be voted on.

I'm on the fence on anarchism, leaning towards the negative view

Why is that? I don't mean to change the subject. Perhaps you can respond to me through PM instead of changing the topic on this discussion.

[Falleen Prince Xizor]

You're only anti-communist in that the word genocide makes you fell uncomfortable and there isn't enough food in the world .

Unless you want to go back to our little thread in the other forum

I'm still anti communist!

I forgot about that "discussion" actually, sure thing.

FPX

[STA]

Someone should Assign "captians" to the teams so someone acctually picks who will be on the teams. Demo looks like he has assumed the "captian" role of the conservative team.

I think it's been taken care of. Moderators will be appointed as the "captains" who are responsible for picking a team. Political groups without a board can surely be voted on.

I think TSaler should be captian of the liberals, since he is the only active mod who should be classified as a liberal (look at his sig), but he hasn;t posted in a couple days so i hope he makes his decision on weather or not to head the liberal team soon.

Maybe another good possible captian would be GandalftheGrey.

[Kamil]

If I'm to be chosen as the Anarchist representative due to my moderator position in the 'Other' forum which is predominantly Anarchist, I'd already have a good idea of my team. I'd be up for a position against the Marxists whereas a well-cultivated friend of mind would be up for challenging the conservatives. He's already a part of this forum although he has not posted yet. Thus far, I would also like DF and Morpheus for the team though their participation is questionable since DF has not posted in a while and Morpheus is currently busy at the moment. Not to forget Deicidus, Anarchocommunist, Communoanarchist, Tuco, and perhaps even Golstein, which would be viable choices for the Anarchist group.