[valken09]

I've created this thread to cater debates from my previous thread.
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=114998
As what Tigerlily had suggested.
So all further discussion shall be discuss here.

[valken09]

To:

Lightman

It all depends on what views you possess. Hence the quote "One man's tyrant is another man's hero".
The whole idea of the holocaust is over exaggerated. Jews did died in the war in mass quantity. But did anyone care about the Jews who died by the hands of the Soviets before the war? No, they currently pinpoint the "Nazis" are butchers and war machines.
Here's an interesting fact. Adolf Hitler intended to transfer the Jews who are incarcerated to Madagascar:-
http://www.shoaheducation.com/madagascardoc.html
The reason why he scrap the original plan and instead "Gasses" them shall be left to you to think for your self. After all my history is rather "inadequate". Then again, everyone is.
Plus, the Neo-Nazis are a bunch of thugs running around with the swastika. Though in reality they don't even know what it stands for.

To:

Nattering Nabob

Anyone who can explain their ideas without insulting someone is welcome here as long as you don't deny the holocaust or advocate genocide*...

Haha, fine reply indeed!

To:

Ter

Valken09, you are in KK ?
I had the pleasure of visiting there some years ago, a beautiful place (Tanjun Aru)

Yes, its also my hometown. Why don't you visit Mount Kinabalu or Kundasang. Well thats of course if your into hiking and enjoying the cold.

To:

Wolfman

Am I the only one who is noticing a growing level of ignorance on this board? Am I also the only one who wants to start a sports betting group based on how long it takes users to get carded or band?

Ignorance? Well my friend, I suggest you start that betting group of yours. Good luck.

[Figlio di Moros]

So, you wouldn't consider yourself a Platonist?

[Lightman]

It all depends on what views you possess. Hence the quote "One man's tyrant is another man's hero".

Moral relativism is a false position.

The whole idea of the holocaust is over exaggerated.

How over-exaggerated is it?

But did anyone care about the Jews who died by the hands of the Soviets before the war? No, they currently pinpoint the "Nazis" are butchers and war machines.

I'm more than willing to agree that the Soviets under Stalin were butchers. That does not excuse the Nazis.

Here's an interesting fact. Adolf Hitler intended to transfer the Jews who are incarcerated to Madagascar:-
http://www.shoaheducation.com/madagascardoc.html

I know this. What is your point?

The reason why he scrap the original plan and instead "Gasses" them shall be left to you to think for your self. After all my history is rather "inadequate". Then again, everyone is.

Because:
(a) the Nazis wanted the free labor
(b) the Nazis wanted to eliminate Jews/Roma/etc.

You have not responded to my points about the the ascendent nature of the Aryan race under national socialism. You have avoided that and instead only addressed my least important point.

[Donna]

The whole idea of the holocaust is over exaggerated. Jews did died in the war in mass quantity. But did anyone care about the Jews who died by the hands of the Soviets before the war? No, they currently pinpoint the "Nazis" are butchers and war machines.

Is this really a "National Socialist" point of view? Today we have Jews that are alleging the existence of a Holocaust 'industry'. Further, the Soviets don't exactly possess polished reputations in liberal societies, from Lenin to Brezhnev, so its mention is largely irrelevant when defending your 'national socialism' or trying to make it appealing to those with humanist beliefs.

"Nazis" are butchers and war machines.
Here's an interesting fact. Adolf Hitler intended to transfer the Jews who are incarcerated to Madagascar:-

Hitler had a passing interest in this idea, which originated in the 19th century and influenced by Paul de Lagarde (and with most historical German antisemites, Hitler probably had an ear for him), but the fact remains it was terribly idealistic and the Nazis, in their obsession with blood and soil, opted the butcher the Jews instead. No doubt, Nazi Germany was also a war machine, and war, if necessary, was the aspiration of the NSDAP in their goal of attaining their lofty 'living space'. These are pretty obvious histories, in the West at least.

Plus, the Neo-Nazis are a bunch of thugs running around with the swastika. Though in reality they don't even know what it stands for.

The pathetic nature of Neo-Nazis today really represents how irrelevant, dated and morally repugnant National Socialism is. A once massive, petite bourgeois movement in Germany (and one that was influencing and expanding sectors all over Europe and even the United States) reduced to alienated hooliganism also reminds us how utterly defeated the Nazis were, and the result of completely occupying German lands to secure that total defeat.

[valken09]

Lightman

How over-exaggerated is it?

Didn't they say that 11 millions Jews died before? Now they estimate 9 million actually perish. I wouldn't be surprise if the numbers drop though.

I'm more than willing to agree that the Soviets under Stalin were butchers. That does not excuse the Nazis.

Well I'm addressing to those who blame everything to the National Socialist. Though I do acknowledge that they caused many harms and destruction during that time.

I know this. What is your point?

The point is that Adolf Hitler's original plan wasn't to exterminate the Jews. He tried to deport them. You already know that the National Socialist(Nazis for you) were intending to have a "German" native state. Plus, they happen to believe that the Jews promote multiculturalism in their beliefs so the only way for Hitler to do it is by deporting them out.

Because:
(a) the Nazis wanted the free labor
(b) the Nazis wanted to eliminate Jews/Roma/etc.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures. But even "Real National Socialist"(Not your typical Neo-Nazis) condemn policies that legalize slave labor.
So then again, why would Hitler even want free slave labor since he knows that Jewish Laborers will tend to sabotage Germany's products? Even under the watchful eye of the "Gestapo" during the height of the war, forced laborers will still slip pass the high security and mess up with the equipment to render them useless or troublesome in the battlefield. So is setting up a "Slave Sweatshop" in Madagascar a good idea? I don't think so, do you?
3rd world Asian workers are an exception though, since they are willingly to work for a meager pay to produce affordable products such as Shoes for wealthy nations. I elaborate the last sentence just for you to get the idea.

You have not responded to my points about the the ascendent nature of the Aryan race under national socialism. You have avoided that and instead only addressed my least important point.

I only thought you were being sarcastic on that point. But since its your priority, very well then. Now, I would expect a fine intelligent chap like you to already know about the "Aryan" race so lets skip this part. Adolf Hitler believed that its his duty to protect the European culture and people. He believe that his goal is to unite Europe and to move it from the course degeneration. (Now before we got into a misunderstanding, I elaborate my understandings from what I read from "Mein Kamft" so don't label me as a fanatic or a radical.) Other than that, he does not think that every race or culture are inferior or superior to one another, only in terms of technological and social advances though. One proof is that even his *swastika and his improved National Socialist ideology were inspired by both from Hinduism and Taoism.
So in sense about the Aryan race superiority idea is one of many exaggerated claims. Because he already knows that Westerner's benefited from both Real Aryans(or Iranians to be unspecific, and even Egyptians as he claims, plus early Hindus), and Ancient Chinese(One of the longest running civilization so far).

Other than that, Good day.

[valken09]

Donald

Further, the Soviets don't exactly possess polished reputations in liberal societies, from Lenin to Brezhnev, so its mention is largely irrelevant when defending your 'national socialism' or trying to make it appealing to those with humanist beliefs.

Might you be referring that National Socialism is a barbarous ideology which lack Social Humanist understanding? I'm beginning to wonder if your more of a Communist than a Socialist. I hope your not a Stalinist though, that would be intolerable.

No doubt, Nazi Germany was also a war machine, and war, if necessary, was the aspiration of the NSDAP in their goal of attaining their lofty 'living space'. These are pretty obvious histories, in the West at least.

The entire idea to them is War economy. It really depends which National Socialist a country is. History didn't give time or a chance for another country to adopt National Socialism fully. German culture and history is always based on Expansionism and loyalty to the "Fatherland", so thats why you have this type of ideology to occur. If a more self absorb and xenophobic country like China for example is to adopt the idea, it might not have been so Expansionist like the Germans.

The pathetic nature of Neo-Nazis today really represents how irrelevant, dated and morally repugnant National Socialism is

You do realize that you are also referring to the Neo-Marxist or Communist Skinheads indirectly.

A once massive, petite bourgeois movement in Germany (and one that was influencing and expanding sectors all over Europe and even the United States) reduced to alienated hooliganism also reminds us how utterly defeated the Nazis were, and the result of completely occupying German lands to secure that total defeat.

Wow, so thats your understanding. The only thing wrong about Communism was that private ownership will be ban and every businesses will be State Owned. The NSDAP still nationalized private business but only to a certain limit. Meaning while the Government still controls the private sector, the original owners still runs everything that occurs in their business. So the Government were only regulators and only hold a small share of ownership rather than entirely like in Communism.

[Lightman]

Didn't they say that 11 millions Jews died before? Now they estimate 9 million actually perish. I wouldn't be surprise if the numbers drop though.

That's not true at all. The number of Jewish deaths has always been figured at around 5-6 million since the end of the war. The number of total deaths in concentration camps was around 10 million, I think.

The point is that Adolf Hitler's original plan wasn't to exterminate the Jews. He tried to deport them. You already know that the National Socialist(Nazis for you) were intending to have a "German" native state. Plus, they happen to believe that the Jews promote multiculturalism in their beliefs so the only way for Hitler to do it is by deporting them out.

Again, what is the point? Even if Hitler's plan was always to deport the Jews (the evidence for that is flimsy, at best, but whatever), that does not negate the fact that the Nazis did in fact commit genocide, and that Nazi racial theory led them inevitably to this conclusion. Further, there were quite a few good Jewish patriots - my great-grandfather, a former officer in the Austro-Hungarian Army, was a Hungarian patriot.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures. But even "Real National Socialist"(Not your typical Neo-Nazis) condemn policies that legalize slave labor.

Bullshit. Even before the holocaust, the only national socialist state in existence used slave labor regularly. And there are no real national socialists left; there are degenerates (to a greater degree than the scum that formed Hitler's party) of various stripes who say stupid and immoral things.

So then again, why would Hitler even want free slave labor since he knows that Jewish Laborers will tend to sabotage Germany's products? Even under the watchful eye of the "Gestapo" during the height of the war, forced laborers will still slip pass the high security and mess up with the equipment to render them useless or troublesome in the battlefield. So is setting up a "Slave Sweatshop" in Madagascar a good idea? I don't think so, do you?

I don't know, I couldn't say what went on in Adolf Hitler's mind. Perhaps he was inconsistent; certainly a real possibility. Historically, he utilized slave labor. Or are you going to deny that, too?

I only thought you were being sarcastic on that point. But since its your priority, very well then. Now, I would expect a fine intelligent chap like you to already know about the "Aryan" race so lets skip this part. Adolf Hitler believed that its his duty to protect the European culture and people. He believe that his goal is to unite Europe and to move it from the course degeneration. (Now before we got into a misunderstanding, I elaborate my understandings from what I read from "Mein Kamft" so don't label me as a fanatic or a radical.) Other than that, he does not think that every race or culture are inferior or superior to one another, only in terms of technological and social advances though. One proof is that even his *swastika and his improved National Socialist ideology were inspired by both from Hinduism and Taoism.
So in sense about the Aryan race superiority idea is one of many exaggerated claims. Because he already knows that Westerner's benefited from both Real Aryans(or Iranians to be unspecific, and even Egyptians as he claims, plus early Hindus), and Ancient Chinese(One of the longest running civilization so far).

All the human culture, all the results of art, science and technology that we see before us today, are almost exclusively the creative product of the Aryan. This very fact admits of the not unfounded inference that he alone was the founder of all higher humanity, therefore representing the prototype of all that we understand by the word "man." He is the Prometheus of mankind from whose shining brow the divine spark of genius has sprung at all times, forever kindling anew that fire of knowledge which illuminated the night of silent mysteries and thus caused man to climb the path to mastery over the other beings of the earth . . . It was he who laid the foundations and erected the walls of every great structure in human culture.

I also want to make it clear that you are not a sparring partner. You are not someone who I will make playful remarks to, and I will not respond to any such remarks on your part. You are an enemy; you are part of an ideological movement that slaughtered a large part of my family.

[Dave]

I also want to make it clear that you are not a sparring partner. You are not someone who I will make playful remarks to, and I will not respond to any such remarks on your part. You are an enemy; you are part of an ideological movement that slaughtered a large part of my family.

Lighten up.

In the first place he is Malaysian. In your zeal to try and fry the rarest of breeds, the unrepentant National Socialist, you seem to have forgotten that National Socialism is perceived very differently outside of Europe (in the broad sense). In much of the world Adolf Hitler is viewed as an almost liberationist figure for his (unwilling) fight against the British Empire. This is why in Indian for instance there is a politician named Adolf Lu Hitler Marak.

In the second place treating someone as an "enemy" and refusing to engage in sparring, playfulness, or humor is simply unpleasant and repulsive behavior. Don't take ideas, people, or yourself so seriously. Ever wonder why everyone like Potemkin, an admitted Stalinist?

[Donna]

Might you be referring that National Socialism is a barbarous ideology which lack Social Humanist understanding? I'm beginning to wonder if your more of a Communist than a Socialist. I hope your not a Stalinist though, that would be intolerable.

I suppose that would sting because he had the last laugh?

The entire idea to them is War economy. It really depends which National Socialist a country is. History didn't give time or a chance for another country to adopt National Socialism fully. German culture and history is always based on Expansionism and loyalty to the "Fatherland", so thats why you have this type of ideology to occur. If a more self absorb and xenophobic country like China for example is to adopt the idea, it might not have been so Expansionist like the Germans.

Various countries in Europe at this time adopted their own versions of the political trends that also emerged in Germany with Hitler and the Nazi Party. Italy had a more secular, non-racial (at nascent) experience with Mussolini and national syndicalism. In Portugal and Spain emerged movements that built themselves around the Catholic Church. In Germany, Hitler and the Nazis appeared with very German (William Shirer would agree) brands of occultism and racial mysticism. Your idea that national socialism, in its German uniqueness (which you probably deny), is something that can spring up anywhere seems be influenced by *gasp* Marxism.

You do realize that you are also referring to the Neo-Marxist or Communist Skinheads indirectly.

I'm not sure what you mean. I am aware of bizarre ideological trends in Russia and former Soviet republics (national bolshevism, or other Russian and Baltic-based strasserisms), but racist skinheads everywhere else in the West (I do not know about Asia) generally embrace the most obvious tenets of Nazism of anti-semitism, anti-communism, anti-liberalism, militarism, racial supremacy, etc.

Wow, so thats your understanding. The only thing wrong about Communism was that private ownership will be ban and every businesses will be State Owned. The NSDAP still nationalized private business but only to a certain limit. Meaning while the Government still controls the private sector, the original owners still runs everything that occurs in their business. So the Government were only regulators and only hold a small share of ownership rather than entirely like in Communism.

I'm aware of this. You do not seem to be aware that these ideological designs were tailored for the economic, social and political conditions of the interbellum, or even the huge significance of the fact that the guys you're cheerleading for lost the goddamn war of all wars.

But whatev.

[valken09]

Lightman

That's not true at all. The number of Jewish deaths has always been figured at around 5-6 million since the end of the war. The number of total deaths in concentration camps was around 10 million, I think.

Any yet the media and mainstream history states its more than that.

Further, there were quite a few good Jewish patriots - my great-grandfather, a former officer in the Austro-Hungarian Army, was a Hungarian patriot.

My thought is that I've offended you. For that my sincere apologies whether you accept that or not.

Bullshit. Even before the holocaust, the only national socialist state in existence used slave labor regularly. And there are no real national socialists left; there are degenerates (to a greater degree than the scum that formed Hitler's party) of various stripes who say stupid and immoral things.

Obviously you assume to much and know to little. May you clarify that statement that the National Socialist used slave labor before the war? Plus, you certainly haven't meet any real National Socialist or even have an Intelligent conversation with one. Either your a bigot or just scared of "Derange Psychotic Killers". Any way, I can't change your belief and you can't change mind so that's the fact.

I don't know, I couldn't say what went on in Adolf Hitler's mind. Perhaps he was inconsistent; certainly a real possibility. Historically, he utilized slave labor. Or are you going to deny that, too?

I've already stated before, that I have acknowledge the fact that the National Socialist used slave labor. Perhaps he was inconsistent? Same thought in my mind. But as you said, that's him which is another individual so we can't possibly know for sure what ran through his mind.

I also want to make it clear that you are not a sparring partner. You are not someone who I will make playful remarks to, and I will not respond to any such remarks on your part. You are an enemy; you are part of an ideological movement that slaughtered a large part of my family.

The statement of "You are an Enemy" really describes what person you are. But I won't put any assumptions on that yet though. Moreover, you indeed are not qualify for a proper debate nor discussion. I've debated with a Jew, a Pro-Gay Activist and a Socialist before in real life and in virtual reality. But they seem to differ from you in terms of Superior Arguments by actually interacting with me fully. Though they are considered an Ideological Enemy, that doesn't stop us from drinking coffee together and having a normal chit chat.
Sure the N.Socialist caused the death of millions of Jews but that's not my fault. I sure don't blame the Japanese for murdering and raping my people, though indeed I do blame the one's responsible for it such as the High Ranking Officers.
Other than that, take my word or not, be an intelligent debater or the opposite its your decision.

Good Day Mate.

[valken09]

Dave

you seem to have forgotten that National Socialism is perceived very differently outside of Europe (in the broad sense).

At long last some one has actually realized the obvious.

Ever wonder why everyone like Potemkin, an admitted Stalinist?

I'm curious, why?

[valken09]

Your idea that national socialism, in its German uniqueness (which you probably deny), is something that can spring up anywhere seems be influenced by *gasp* Marxism.

So whats your point? Marxism is the heart and soul of Socialism and sure is too for National Socialism. What I meant about "German Uniqueness" is that Germany will have their own form of National Socialism and other countries too in their own way, just like Communism in the Soviet Union differs from China and Cuba.

but racist skinheads everywhere else in the West (I do not know about Asia) generally embrace the most obvious tenets of Nazism of anti-semitism, anti-communism, anti-liberalism, militarism, racial supremacy, etc.

Neo-Communist/Marxist, please refer that back. These Neo-Marxist run around with their long live communism slogans and banners. They vary in terms of race, this I know as I've met one before, their not racist but they will beat up selected "Capitalist" or who they assume are one.

you're cheerleading for lost the goddamn war of all wars.

But whatev.

Haha, well any way big deal. That makes the both of us has something in common eh? At least I don't have to see my Idol Ideology crumbles before Capitalism. Oh the humanity.

Anyway, Nice discussing with you! No offense if I had said something that's hurtful.

[Dave]

I'm curious, why?

In the first place I should stress that Communism is more accepted here and in the West in general than far right or racialist ideologies. That said, Potemkin is well liked because he does not take himself too seriously and is friendly, polite, and humorous to everyone.

[Lightman]

Any yet the media and mainstream history states its more than that.

I cannot speak for your area of the world, but the six million figure is what is consistently used in most respectable outlets in the west.

My thought is that I've offended you. For that my sincere apologies whether you accept that or not.

I will accept it.

Obviously you assume to much and know to little. May you clarify that statement that the National Socialist used slave labor before the war? Plus, you certainly haven't meet any real National Socialist or even have an Intelligent conversation with one. Either your a bigot or just scared of "Derange Psychotic Killers". Any way, I can't change your belief and you can't change mind so that's the fact.

The Nazis used Jewish force labor before the onset of the Second World War. And I have had conversations with self-proffessed national soclaists - I simply do not cherrypick in refusing to call people who clearly follow the racist ideology of Hitler Nazis. They generally are not very rational people - they generally deny historical facts and tell me that I am subhuman scum who wants to destroy white culture. I have never in fact encountered someone before yourself who has claimed to both be a national socialist and a non-racist. That is partially why I am convinced that you are not a national socialist, but merely a nationalistic socialist.

The statement of "You are an Enemy" really describes what person you are. But I won't put any assumptions on that yet though. Moreover, you indeed are not qualify for a proper debate nor discussion. I've debated with a Jew, a Pro-Gay Activist and a Socialist before in real life and in virtual reality. But they seem to differ from you in terms of Superior Arguments by actually interacting with me fully. Though they are considered an Ideological Enemy, that doesn't stop us from drinking coffee together and having a normal chit chat.

Perhaps I have been too harsh before in judging you personally, but I will reiterate, the ideology that you claim to represent has killed large portions of my family, and the vast majority of its adherents (I refer to hellish oasises of hate like Stormfront) think that I, personally, shoudl be dead. I am naturally rather adverse to the position of the Nazi (and really, the word Nazi does not have a connotation different from National Socialist in the United States - people who identify with Nazism will call themselves Nazis).

Sure the N.Socialist caused the death of millions of Jews but that's not my fault. I sure don't blame the Japanese for murdering and raping my people, though indeed I do blame the one's responsible for it such as the High Ranking Officers.

There is a difference here, though. Being Japanese is an inherent trait; being a Nazi is acquired. I do not hate Germans, for example.

[valken09]

I cannot speak for your area of the world, but the six million figure is what is consistently used in most respectable outlets in the west.

Well, we both share the same figure. At least until yours over there went down to 6 and ours remains at 9.

The Nazis used Jewish force labor before the onset of the Second World War. And I have had conversations with self-proffessed national soclaists - I simply do not cherrypick in refusing to call people who clearly follow the racist ideology of Hitler Nazis. They generally are not very rational people - they generally deny historical facts and tell me that I am subhuman scum who wants to destroy white culture. I have never in fact encountered someone before yourself who has claimed to both be a national socialist and a non-racist. That is partially why I am convinced that you are not a national socialist, but merely a nationalistic socialist.

While I can't argue to the fact that "Nazi" Germany might have used Jewish forced labor before the war. Though I can say for sure that those "self-professed" National Socialist were nothing more than common racist or confused "White Nationalist". This case also occurs during the time of "Nazi" Germany. Racist/Supremacist groups such as the KKKs usually self-associated themselves to the "Nazis" though in reality they don't seem to share the same goal and belief. The only thing different between them and common racist/supremacist is that they act as if they are N.S and know National Socialism completely. In what way are they not rational? This I do not know, but if your actions are not a threat to the European culture then you are not deemed as a traitor. But even if you are, your still not Sub-Human. Hence Sub-Humans are people like thugs and degenerative culture advocates.
Other than that, why I say I'm a National Socialist and also not be a racist is because we(referring to the National Socialist), believe in both Nationalism and Socialism and therefore believes that National Socialism is a combined name for the two. Well thats our belief of course, don't take my word though.

Perhaps I have been too harsh before in judging you personally, but I will reiterate, the ideology that you claim to represent has killed large portions of my family, and the vast majority of its adherents (I refer to hellish oasises of hate like Stormfront) think that I, personally, shoudl be dead. I am naturally rather adverse to the position of the Nazi (and really, the word Nazi does not have a connotation different from National Socialist in the United States - people who identify with Nazism will call themselves Nazis).

Just to inform you, I don't hate you for hating me. I understand that you've lost something big so I wouldn't blame you though. Another thing is that, Stormfront is not a "National Socialist" site. Even the admins and moderators(though maybe not its degenerated idiots who inhabit the forum) self-proclaims themselves as "White Nationalist" and not National Socialist. The reason is that they know that National Socialism is a multiracial ideology and doesn't have any connection to their "White Superiority" ideas. I've surveyed that forum though so thats why I know what's their ideology. Anyone who claims his/shes a National Socialist in that forums are just confused.

[Plaro]

The Nazis used Jewish force labor before the onset of the Second World War. And I have had conversations with self-proffessed national soclaists.

So what, maybe Jewish businessman should have not cut trade with Germany and isolated it materially through influence on the world market.

Perhaps I have been too harsh before in judging you personally, but I will reiterate, the ideology that you claim to represent has killed large portions of my family, and the vast majority of its adherents (I refer to hellish oasises of hate like Stormfront) think that I, personally, shoudl be dead. I am naturally rather adverse to the position of the Nazi (and really, the word Nazi does not have a connotation different from National Socialist in the United States - people who identify with Nazism will call themselves Nazis).

Jees, stop the appeal to pity Lightman, I lost many family members in the war what is your point? You do not see me ranting about the loss of millions of Russians. Besides Jews did not even fight in the war.

[Lightman]

While I can't argue to the fact that "Nazi" Germany might have used Jewish forced labor before the war. Though I can say for sure that those "self-professed" National Socialist were nothing more than common racist or confused "White Nationalist". This case also occurs during the time of "Nazi" Germany. Racist/Supremacist groups such as the KKKs usually self-associated themselves to the "Nazis" though in reality they don't seem to share the same goal and belief. The only thing different between them and common racist/supremacist is that they act as if they are N.S and know National Socialism completely. In what way are they not rational? This I do not know, but if your actions are not a threat to the European culture then you are not deemed as a traitor. But even if you are, your still not Sub-Human. Hence Sub-Humans are people like thugs and degenerative culture advocates.
Other than that, why I say I'm a National Socialist and also not be a racist is because we(referring to the National Socialist), believe in both Nationalism and Socialism and therefore believes that National Socialism is a combined name for the two. Well thats our belief of course, don't take my word though.

The National Socialists in Germany founded National Socialism; they get to define what the term means. To them, National Socialism was an ideology based on race. This is a historically true fact. If you want to support both nationalism and socialism, go right ahead, but you are not a National Socialist in any historical sense.

Just to inform you, I don't hate you for hating me. I understand that you've lost something big so I wouldn't blame you though. Another thing is that, Stormfront is not a "National Socialist" site. Even the admins and moderators(though maybe not its degenerated idiots who inhabit the forum) self-proclaims themselves as "White Nationalist" and not National Socialist. The reason is that they know that National Socialism is a multiracial ideology and doesn't have any connection to their "White Superiority" ideas. I've surveyed that forum though so thats why I know what's their ideology. Anyone who claims his/shes a National Socialist in that forums are just confused.

With all due respect, you are the one who is confused. The only significant political party that professed national socialism, in fact, the party that founded national socialism, the National Socialist German Worker's Party, agrees with my definition of the term. Now, I suppose you can make the argument that you are in fact embodying the politics of that party before Adolf Hitler joined, but even that is false, as Anton Drexler did not lack racist views. Of course, you could be talking about Maurice Barres, but I find that doubtful.

So what, maybe Jewish businessman should have not cut trade with Germany and isolated it materially through influence on the world market.

I have debated this many times in the past, and I do not feel the need to debate it again. Jewish businesses as a whole did not start boycotting German products until Germany began acting against Jews within its territory.

Jees, stop the appeal to pity Lightman, I lost many family members in the war what is your point? You do not see me ranting about the loss of millions of Russians. Besides Jews did not even fight in the war.

An appeal to pity is a specific logical fallacy that occurs when somebody attempts to prove a conclusion true by appealing to pity. There was no argument being made in relation to my statement.

[valken09]

To them, National Socialism was an ideology based on race.

Did I miss something here or is it just I didn't specify properly of what my beliefs are? This is exactly what I was trying to say. Plus, I didn't say anything about not believing in race. I once stated about Racial Purity. But that doesn't mean that they are racist or supremacist. Sure there are some, but its not what the ideology advocates about. It also seems like you don't completely understand about Nationalism. Nationalism(Not referring to National Socialism) has various versions, what I know that exists is Expansionist Nationalism, Civic Nationalism, Ethnic Nationalism, and so on. There are just to many to list them down for you, but you'll get the point anyway.
Anyway, go ahead and say that National Socialism is not Nationalism+Socialism or anything that associates with the two if you want to. After all I can't force you to change your mind.

With all due respect, you are the one who is confused. The only significant political party that professed national socialism, in fact, the party that founded national socialism, the National Socialist German Worker's Party, agrees with my definition of the term. Now, I suppose you can make the argument that you are in fact embodying the politics of that party before Adolf Hitler joined, but even that is false, as Anton Drexler did not lack racist views. Of course, you could be talking about Maurice Barres, but I find that doubtful.

Confused am I? Either your confused about what am I trying to apply to my post here or I'm confuse in what your trying to project out. As I said, in the above. It advocates Racial/Ethnic Purity but not Racism and Supremacy. If say a member wants to believe in racism then he may but thats not what the original doctrine propose in the first place.

[danholo]

Besides Jews did not even fight in the war.

What war? Jews fought in the Soviet, Finnish, English and American armies.